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Weapons in GRAW 2  

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My expectations about weapons in GRAW 2 are simple :

- We need at least two times more weapons ! GRAW had like 10 weapons if im correct including sidearms and SMGs.

- Every class should have about 3-4 wepons imho , exept rifleman, it should have big variety of wepons to choose .

It could be something like

- sniper ( m24, psg, m85 )

- support ( m240, m249, pk )

- rifleman ( m4, m16, mrc, scar l, scar h, ak47, ak74, famas, g3, g36)

- sidearms secondary weapons ( m9, glock17, glock22, p99, mp5/mp5sd, umg, p90)

- and of course frag nades, smoke nades, maybe one or two GL, and something AT.

List like that would completly satisfy me.

- Answering to those who say that SF use 3-4 weapons and dont pick wepons from enemy because it would be unrealistic . Ok i agree. Lets made it similar to [GR]. During SP you are limited to official US SF wepons, but during MP game player shouldnt be limited to 6-7 main rifles !! ~20 wepons is a standard for most FPS.

- Player should definately be able to pick wepons from fallen enemies during MP !!

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M4

M16

SPR

SR25

M249SPW

M240

etc.

I don't know what Ubi's issue with Colt is but it just looks silly without those rifles.

Erh?

SR25, M249 SPW & M240 are not Colt weapons.

Also M249 is in GRAW already, and it's basically the same weapon.

~20 wepons is a standard for most FPS.

Not for games what uses the actual weapon model in first person view with customised animations for each weapon so that the assigned scopes and ironsights work as in real life.

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~20 wepons is a standard for most FPS.

Not for games what uses the actual weapon model in first person view with customised animations for each weapon so that the assigned scopes and ironsights work as in real life.

Red Orchestra is propably best MP FPS ive ever played. The detail of wepons look and handlig is incredible. And it has 28 wepons !! Link http://youtube.com/watch?v=iJepEYudtwADo You want more examples ?

Edited by Joseph_Q
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RO has also been in the works for years (used to play it when it was nothing more than a UT mod). I will agree that the current selection of weapons is getting stale though. I wouldn't mind seeing a rather large increase in weapons (see Raven Shield), but I wouldn't mind it if only 3 or 4 were added.

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Also, how many attachments and stuff does it have, as they also require extra animation sets? It's not just the weapon models but all different animation sets that take time.

To be honest Red Orchestra has many more wepons animations than GRAW. Red orchestra for an example has berrel changing animations for two german MGs it has bayonete atachement/remove amination, it has detailed visible reloading animations for every weapon ( notice that most of GRAW reloading animations are partly hiden) it has mele attacks for every wepon, two kinds of melee attack animation for rifles ( bayonete on/out) etc etc.

And what are you talking about GRAW attachments ? what kind of extra animations they require ? Only extra animation i can recall i GL reloading if you attache grenade laucher to your rifle. Front grip only changes weapon model and left hand postion, scopes doesnt change anyting beside wepon and ironsight model and that would be all. All that GRAW atachments system is overrated imho.

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notice that most of GRAW reloading animations are partly hidden

They may be when in FPS as it doesn't happen right infront of your eyes, but they are still fully animated. The entire animation is there as it's the same animation you see on your teammates when they reload with the same model weapon. This is the fact that many people here don't understand.

And what are you talking about GRAW attachments ? what kind of extra animations they require ? Only extra animation i can recall i GL reloading if you attache grenade laucher to your rifle. Front grip only changes weapon model and left hand postion, scopes doesnt change anyting beside wepon and ironsight model and that would be all. All that GRAW atachments system is overrated imho.

Most scopes actually changes the line of sight sligthly, which in GRAW requires another animation set. This is something that the weapon modder know very well by now. So maybe you should look in the other parts of the forum so you have any idea what you're talking about. It's much more complicated then any other game I've seen when it comes to realism in that part.

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Most scopes actually changes the line of sight sligthly, which in GRAW requires another animation set. This is something that the weapon modder know very well by now. So maybe you should look in the other parts of the forum so you have any idea what you're talking about. It's much more complicated then any other game I've seen when it comes to realism in that part.

So generally You are saying that scopes are the reason of small number of available weapons in GRAW, to be exact the reson is fact that " scopes actually changes the line of sight sligthly, " ? You are right, im not weapon moder, i assume you are , because of that its even more strange to me that You are fighting with all your strenght just avoid telling that im right, you seam to be blind on my solid aruments.

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i would say that if you count all possible weapon configs in graw you get a lot for the few weapons you have

most are stock weapons with or without GL, sights, frontgrip, silencer,

the variations you can make are enough to get a round twenty different

set ups , prolly more.... (say 5 for each assault rifle) (2 for most secondairy weapons) and a free backback to equip,

compared to [GR] that is quite nice, cause there you were stuck with two slots and pre arranged kits, making it look a lot but not always what you wanted

think it was a good start,

a few more weapons to be added and i am a happy camper

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Most scopes actually changes the line of sight sligthly, which in GRAW requires another animation set. This is something that the weapon modder know very well by now. So maybe you should look in the other parts of the forum so you have any idea what you're talking about. It's much more complicated then any other game I've seen when it comes to realism in that part.

So generally You are saying that scopes are the reason of small number of available weapons in GRAW, to be exact the reson is fact that " scopes actually changes the line of sight sligthly, " ? You are right, im not weapon moder, i assume you are , because of that its even more strange to me that You are fighting with all your strenght just avoid telling that im right, you seam to be blind on my solid aruments.

No. The reason there are fewer weapon in GRAW is that it's more work to implement each weapon that the player i gonna use, which Grin explained long ago when people wondered why there are more weapons in the console vesion then the PC version.

I'm only trying to explain to how much work there is to implement a weapon into GRAW. Compared to Red Orchestra that you posted, besides the extra animation work and shorter production time GRAW also have higher detail on each model as well as full normal mapping.

All you are proving is your lack of understanding of how different game engines solve different implementations and what kind of drawbacks each of them have.

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I just want to add to this discussion that imo it is all to focused on graphics and textures these days and devs seem to forget about variety, gameplay, injury model, netcode that makes a game really stand out.

How could we ever enjoy those Sinclair Spectrum games or C64 games back in the 80's with the 2D pixeled sprites?

It is not textures, animations that makes a game great and fun to play although it always seems as the endless discussions evolve around those details...

The optimum would of course be to be able to combine the best of these two worlds, but to sacrifize gameplay, variety, a decent injury model (with limp etc) ..sigh... that makes me wanna puke :x

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@Wolfsong - I sugest we should end this offtopic and stay with our own opinions :) It looks like there is no way we can agree in this subject. You are happy with 10 modable wepons i woud like to see at least 20 weapons. Within 2 months we will see who will be happy and who will be disappointed ( And i have feeling that im not going to be the happy one ;) ) .

PS. I started with ( borowed for weekends) ZX Spectrum, then i had my first computer - Amstrad, next C64, C64 plus flopy :), then Amiga 500 and finally PC. There is lots of 10 yeras old game that i still cosider as a one of the best games available. Im not a graphic freak, the original idea and gameplay are the most important aspects.

Edited by Joseph_Q
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you lucky ###### you had a floppy with the c64,

i had to do it with (audio)tapes........

My older Brother bought me a flopy after one year of loading games for 10 min from my tapes :) But i had something called TURBO atached to C64 i cant remeber how it worked but i made game loads a bit faster :)

Heh, now we are in serious offtopic, sorry about that ... back on subject ;)

Edited by Joseph_Q
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back on track,

what would you like to see for weapons ??

starting with 2 for each catagory ?

(hoping they might do a add on :P)

:hmm:

It would be :

Assault riffle : M4,AK47

Sniper rifle : M24, something from barret familly M85,95 or so

Support riffle: M249, PK

Pistol : M9, Glock 17

Submachine gun : MP5, P90

:rolleyes:

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@Wolfsong - I sugest we should end this offtopic and stay with our own opinions :) It looks like there is no way we can agree in this subject. You are happy with 10 modable wepons i woud like to see at least 20 weapons. Within 2 months we will see who will be happy and who will be disappointed ( And i have feeling that im not going to be the happy one ;) ) .

I agree.

Still I wouldn't mind having at least 20 weapons. Just don't see how it would have been possible to include it in GRAW1. :thumbsup:

Console oldies...

I started with some black Atari box with black joystick with one red button... Then I got an Intelvision and after that a Colecovision (or Colicovision, can't remember). Also had a Sega Mastersystem. Got a Gameboy the year that came out. Upgraded to Sega MegaDrive (aka Genesis), with MegaCD and Mastersystem converter. Later moved on to PSX and have followed Sony since on the console side (PS2, PSP).

Computer oldies...

We had the old brown C64 (that looked like a Vic16) with tapedeck (using Turbo cartridge) and 5 1/4" floppy. Also got our first PC in 1984, an IBM 286! Woof! I got my first own computer in the mid 80's, a MSX Spectravideo with 3,5" internal drive, game cartridge port AND tapedeck. Upgraded to a 486 DX33, with 16Mb RAM in 1999 and have since have my own PC. Although my current one is really old by todays standard. Being a student doesn't leave much money to spend on computerparts when you haven't been get summerjobs I guess... :rolleyes:

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I have to agree with those who say more realism in how the weapons are implemented is more important than simply more weapons.

I also, have to agree with the assessment of the .50BMG that many have brought up. I remember in [GR] how you basically ran around with the .50 like it was an M4 and you could even shoot it from an upright position. I don't have a problem with someone wanting a .50 in the game, but it should be just as difficult to use as it is in real life. For starters you should not be able to run with it like you can with an M4, and you should not be able to shoot it from an upright position.

Next, although the 7.62mm round is very effective, I personally would want to see something with a bit more range. A .300SAUM or 7mm STW would make for an excellent round that has far superior range over the 7.62mm, but the rifle would not be so cumbersome as a .50.

Overall, a broad weapons list is nice, but requiring adjustments for bullet drop, and the need to lead moving targets at distance would be much more important features IMO.

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Assault riffle : M4,AK47

Sniper rifle : M24, something from barret familly M85,95 or so

Support riffle: M249, PK

Pistol : M9, Glock 17

Submachine gun : MP5, P90

:x at the AK, PK, M9, Glock, and P90. I think that these weapons might be fun in a weapons mod, but I don't think that they have a place in the game. As for the AK, I don't think the US would use them in Mexico to fight an enemy who is using G-36E's and HK 21E's for weapons.

Also, I'll murder for a .45 ACP in Ghost Recon.

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Assault riffle : M4,AK47

Sniper rifle : M24, something from barret familly M85,95 or so

Support riffle: M249, PK

Pistol : M9, Glock 17

Submachine gun : MP5, P90

:x at the AK, PK, M9, Glock, and P90. I think that these weapons might be fun in a weapons mod, but I don't think that they have a place in the game. As for the AK, I don't think the US would use them in Mexico to fight an enemy who is using G-36E's and HK 21E's for weapons.

Also, I'll murder for a .45 ACP in Ghost Recon.

Im thrilled to hear that You hate my choose :) But i believe that it would be more interesting if You tell us which weapons You choosed.

PS. GRAW is not only SP campaign you know... there is also MP .... so there is a place for weapons from outside of US SF and mexican army arsenal.

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Assault riffle : M4,AK47

Sniper rifle : M24, something from barret familly M85,95 or so

Support riffle: M249, PK

Pistol : M9, Glock 17

Submachine gun : MP5, P90

:x at the AK, PK, M9, Glock, and P90. I think that these weapons might be fun in a weapons mod, but I don't think that they have a place in the game. As for the AK, I don't think the US would use them in Mexico to fight an enemy who is using G-36E's and HK 21E's for weapons.

Also, I'll murder for a .45 ACP in Ghost Recon.

because the mexian army uses the 5.56 doesnt mean the us army has to...

the SF in iraq and afganistan doesnt use the ak variants only because of the that , its also an reliable weapon and it has more stopping power

Edited by Dirites
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