I Think G.R.A.W....

[=EP_Geez]

Is a damn good game. Very good for tactical and team work. We as a clan play it almost every day. Aside from the bugs (that are being fixed ) I rate this game a 110% spot on well worth the money! Nice One GRIN and Ubisoft.

You shouldn't put the GRIN guys down or Ubisoft for that matter. If it wasn't for those guys you wouldn't have this game on PC infacted you wouldn't have this at all. You should never judge a book by its cover as they say and you shouldn't judge a person or put them down in any way. You don't know the GRIN guys and you don't know how many of there personal hours they put into this game to make it work for everyone.

Edited November 17, 2006 by =EP_Geez

[Papa6]

cool that somebody likes it. enjoy it!

[Vox*BDA*]

Is a damn good game. Very good for tactical and team work. We as a clan play it almost every day. Aside from the bugs (that are being fixed ) I rate this game a 110% spot on well worth the money! Nice One GRIN and Ubisoft.

You shouldn't put the GRIN guys down or Ubisoft for that matter. If it wasn't for those guys you wouldn't have this game on PC infacted you wouldn't have this at all. You should never judge a book by its cover as they say and you shouldn't never judge a person or put them down in any way. You don't know the GRIN guys and you don't know how many of there personal hours they put into this game to make it work for everyone.

Personally I have no problem with any person or development team, etc. I do have a problem with coporations taking the art out of art. I have played the game throughly and thought it had some brilliant moments. But after completeing it a couple times, (still working on hardcore), it's limitations were obvious. Multiplayer is great fun when it is bug free. But even when I was playing on 7900 GTX , i would get crashes , disconnects regularly. And when you have a limited time to play these games it is irritating to say the least.

I know GRIN have put in many many hours. I feel bad for GRIN because they were asked to do an impossible task. they were never going to be able to please everyone.

For a discussion forum people here don't really seem to discuss. They take sides and hold at all costs. Where productive thought comes from in this atmostsphere, I don't really know. Anyways, everyone likes to say they own opinion and be right. And if that's all anyone wants then I guess it's ok. On the other hand this forum allows people like me to talk to others who like these games for free. I thank ghostrecon.net immensely for that. Maybe that's more important than anything we agree or disagree on...Again I don't have any answers...!(and i'm running out of good questions too!)

I apologise to GRIN and Ubisoft if I sound anti-them but I think these thoughts are worth discussing. Maybe I'm full of s-h-i-t...maybe right now I have nothing better to do.() Maybe GRAW is the best game and the worst at the same time...

I was curious as to what people thought about the game. So that's why I posted here. I ask questions to see if others have thought the same,or to provoke some kind of thought. But I realise now that I'm probably thinking too deeply about it! I guess that's the most dissapointing thing i found about GRAW was how limited most people's response was to the game...ie "i hate it" "i love it" obviously excluding the numerous posts that can be found with the search button...lol...

If we were talking about Serious Sam, the above would read "Wohoooooooo!"... But it's Ghost recon....

I'm delighted you love the game all the same!

[ROCO*AFZ*]

No game pleases everyone.

You have to take a different stance on the game. Pretend you never played GR1. Then re-evaluate. Worked for me. (took me about 2 months of hating domination until i liked it.(because it was different))

The game itself is Great and as with the previous, well above it's time which means as hardware gets cheaper it will get better.

The downfall is the bugs and being linked to Gamespy. Bugs are being fixed, but we can't use xfire or all seeing eye to directly connect to a server. GR1 started this way with UBI game browser (Correct me if i'm wrong as i can't fully remember)

Also Grin... when your in there... can you throw support for a logitech g15 keyboard LCD? (just asking lol) as it Rocks and would enhance my gaming experience

The game overall rocks. The problem is the ones that complain expected a bug fixed GR1 instead of a new game. They haven't let go of GR1 which i will say again from a mp standpoint... has finally died. (Yeah i know i just put about 200 posters into shock)

So ask yourself. Forget GR1, and everything you learned in it, re-evaluate GRAW and compare to the current game market (yuck) and then post.

As for crashes and disconnects i experience only the GL bug now and then. If you experience more, it is usually do to your hardware not accepting the stress GRAW puts on it. for a little while i had lockups. Tested everything, reloaded, latest and older drivers. I found out that on my asus board memory acceleration which worked fine in every game caused issues in GRAW (the bios warns it could cause instability)

Why didn't i see this problem before? Because my PC was never stressed as much as with GRAW. What does this mean? My hardware has yet to catch up fully with he level of GRAW, but as things drop it will. For now it runs smooth as silk with memory accelleration off.

Edited November 17, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[Vox*BDA*]

No game pleases everyone.

You have to take a different stance on the game. Pretend you never played GR1. Then re-evaluate. Worked for me. (took me about 2 months of hating domination until i liked it.(because it was different))

The game itself is Great and as with the previous, well above it's time which means as hardware gets cheaper it will get better.

The downfall is the bugs and being linked to Gamespy. Bugs are being fixed, but we can't use xfire or all seeing eye to directly connect to a server. GR1 started this way with UBI game browser (Correct me if i'm wrong as i can't fully remember)

Also Grin... when your in there... can you throw support for a logitech g15 keyboard LCD? (just asking lol) as it Rocks and would enhance my gaming experience

The game overall rocks. The problem is the ones that complain expected a bug fixed GR1 instead of a new game. They haven't let go of GR1 which i will say again from a mp standpoint... has finally died. (Yeah i know i just put about 200 posters into shock)

So ask yourself. Forget GR1, and everything you learned in it, re-evaluate GRAW and compare to the current game market (yuck) and then post.

As for crashes and disconnects i experience only the GL bug now and then. If you experience more, it is usually do to your hardware not accepting the stress GRAW puts on it. for a little while i had lockups. Tested everything, reloaded, latest and older drivers. I found out that on my asus board memory acceleration which worked fine in every game caused issues in GRAW (the bios warns it could cause instability)

Why didn't i see this problem before? Because my PC was never stressed as much as with GRAW. What does this mean? My hardware has yet to catch up fully with he level of GRAW, but as things drop it will. For now it runs smooth as silk with memory accelleration off.

Why can't there be compromise? Why do we have to roll over.....There's a good dog..Now wait here comes the treat!GRAW2 ... oh wait...no ...not yet...ahhh... here comes the treat...no not yet..now roll over....go on rollover!

Who's a good dog! here you go...you can have the treat in a few years..........................................

GRAW's a cool game. But it doesn't live up to the style of game [GR] was. My stance is say what you feel and if it goes against what the suits want...then all the better. They want my money: I want my game.let's compromise...not have me roll on the floor like a dog. woof..

[=EP_Geez]

Why do you feel you are rolling over or any one else for that matter? We are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game. This isn't about who wins the suits or us. Its about gamesmanship and game play. (They want your money) How else were you thinking of paying for it. Everyone is always trying to make money so they can have a better life. You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. (yes I know there getting paid for it) but if you asked the GRIN and Ubisoft guys (Why do you do it?) I'm sure they would say for the challenge and game play for you guys. Everyone makes mistakes and because they have made a bit of a one your going to slag them off. Sorry if it seems if I am ranting its not meant to sound like that.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

good post

[GRIN_Wolfsong]

Why do you feel you are rolling over or any one else for that matter? We are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game. This isn't about who wins the suits or us. Its about gamesmanship and game play. (They want your money) How else were you thinking of paying for it. Everyone is always trying to make money so they can have a better life. You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. (yes I know there getting paid for it) but if you asked the GRIN and Ubisoft guys (Why do you do it?) I'm sure they would say for the challenge and game play for you guys. Everyone makes mistakes and because they have made a bit of a one your going to slag them off. Sorry if it seems if I am ranting its not meant to sound like that.

I agree. Good post.

I only think people in the industry or people who have undertaken huge mods really understand how much work there is to create the game experience you (as in the team working) are aiming for. And as a developer you'll have to cut down to bare minimum to get it done as fast as possible to get some income.

Edited November 17, 2006 by Wolfsong

[OliverReed]

Why do you feel you are rolling over or any one else for that matter? We are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game. This isn't about who wins the suits or us. Its about gamesmanship and game play. (They want your money) How else were you thinking of paying for it. Everyone is always trying to make money so they can have a better life. You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. (yes I know there getting paid for it) but if you asked the GRIN and Ubisoft guys (Why do you do it?) I'm sure they would say for the challenge and game play for you guys. Everyone makes mistakes and because they have made a bit of a one your going to slag them off. Sorry if it seems if I am ranting its not meant to sound like that.

I agree. Good post.

I only think people in the industry or people who have undertaken huge mods really understand how much work there is to create the game experience you (as in the team working) are aiming for. And as a developer you'll have to cut down to bare minimum to get it done as fast as possible to get some income.

Well as a faceless customer - I don't give a damn who suffered what.

I paid £34.99 and got a work-in-progress game that masqueraded itself as a finished product.

Those of use who bought this game at launch have been seriously misled.

Edited November 17, 2006 by OliverReed

[Vox*BDA*]

Is a damn good game. Very good for tactical and team work. We as a clan play it almost every day. Aside from the bugs (that are being fixed ) I rate this game a 110% spot on well worth the money! Nice One GRIN and Ubisoft.

You shouldn't put the GRIN guys down or Ubisoft for that matter. If it wasn't for those guys you wouldn't have this game on PC infacted you wouldn't have this at all. You should never judge a book by its cover as they say and you shouldn't judge a person or put them down in any way. You don't know the GRIN guys and you don't know how many of there personal hours they put into this game to make it work for everyone.

I was responding to this post. If you read this post it makes reference to those who have been "negative towards GRIN".examples "you don't know them" " you don't know how hard..."

I started thread named :" GRIN and UBISOFT got it all wrong" - I believe I fall in this category.

"you shouldn't put the GRIN guys down" - I tried responding but as usual people read what they want to read. I said:

"I apologise to GRIN and Ubisoft if I sound anti-them but I think these thoughts are worth discussing. Maybe I'm full of s-h-i-t...maybe right now I have nothing better to do.() Maybe GRAW is the best game and the worst at the same time...

I was curious as to what people thought about the game. So that's why I posted here. I ask questions to see if others have thought the same,or to provoke some kind of thought. But I realise now that I'm probably thinking too deeply about it! I guess that's the most disappointing thing I found about GRAW was how limited most people's response was to the game...i.e. "I hate it" "I love it" obviously excluding the numerous posts that can be found with the search button...lol..."

you have since said:

"You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. "

you have also since said:

"are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game"

This is clearly not all of what you said in original post and, as I’ve said I was responding to that post.

people have since said :

I agree. Good post.

I only think people in the industry or people who have undertaken huge mods really understand how much work there is to create the game experience you (as in the team working) are aiming for. And as a developer you'll have to cut down to bare minimum to get it done as fast as possible to get some income.

So how does this information enlighten this discussion?

You are saying because a lot of effort has gone into GRAW that means it should be applauded as a piece of software,or art.

I will give you an example. There was a famous building that was built. It was built in a time of opulence. A wealthy group of men had bought a plan of an old small building that they felt if brought to a bigger scale, could be a great way to make huge profits. They selected another group of poorer men who they controlled ruthlessly by way of wages and time. This group of poor men worked tirelessly on said building. When it was almost ready the rich men unveiled the building. The public flocked to see it. The roof leaked and there was a floorboard everyone tripped up on, but they had never seen anything like it so they fell in love with the building. Everyone bought an apartment there and the rich men became even wealthier. But alas, there was a small unhappy group who saw through the glittery walls, and they didn't like the leaking roof. This group of very poor labourers would have given anything to help build the building. The rich men wouldn't allow them. The other poor men who made the first small plan had given these poor labourers a dream. Now this dream was distorted by the rich men. These poor men could never afford to build such a thing, so individually they tried to modify their rooms. They found it difficult, as the rich men had not wanted people to make changes to the rooms, as they felt the essence of the building was theirs. The group of very poor men began to become disillusioned. They became annoyed at the other poor men who thought the building was incredible. They couldn't understand why the faults were not obvious to them. So one by one these few poor men who disagreed left and never returned. The roof was patched several times,6 the old folk say, but it still leaked. the poor happy men said that these rich men had done all they could and applauded their effort.

Maybe one day the rich men will make these happy men unhappy. Until then the poor unhappy men remain in limbo, attacked by all sides.

In conclusion, I am saying 3 things. There will be separate sentences for each.

1) I do not intend to put GRIN down for their creation of the game. I have said over and over I apologise if it appears that way.

2) I feel like I have rollen over because ZERO of what I wanted in the game has materialised. And I hear you guys celebrating as if no fan input is a good thing. Also the money Ubisoft have made off the ghost recon franchise is illustrated on another post and shows we have been shafted so Ubisoft can make sickening profits.

3) I am trying again to have a discussion that appears impossible. So I will quit trying. (this is in fact a new point and unrelated to the last 2).

Fan input has been killed already, which I find particularly heart breaking. As input from the community in GRAW was limited.

So, in essence, I disagree with your assessment and attitude towards GRAW. Likewise I assume you disagree with mine. I will leave it at that, and hope that the future of ghost Recon is in the hands of people who are not so easily pleased.

This post sounds condescending on reading it.

I don't think I'll change it.

I'd laugh but I know someone will get a good jab in ...

Sory for being cranky. It's the end of the week fu*kups as usual getting me down..

[IrishStout]

One of the most famous architectural mishaps started out one way, straight .. only to end up crooked .. took over 200 years to build but is now very treasured and known world wide.

So I think there is still hope.. as long as the developers don't give up on GRAW.. I am sure there will be some that think it is a masterpiece.... My view is ... I like.. others don't .. big deal.. I will continue to play it .. others will move on to something else..

Oh and if you do not know what I am referring to... check out the link below..

Could be like GRAW.. well sort of hehehe?

[DAZZA]

The way I see it is, I love the game and am grateful to GRIN, but I don't not want to play it often because I cannot be arsed to load it each time I get booted. I've even gone back to SP lol

Now for some advice, UBI and GRIN should scratch GRAW2 thinking about the quick win, instead they should concentrate on the product in hand which is GRAW. By this I mean building it up into a hell of a game and get the gamers loving GRAW PC. Then develop GRAW2 PC and reep the rewards.

BUT when they are focusing on XBOX360 and PS3 this strategy works. NOT PC I'm afraid.

For PC gamers it's like this, stick a frog in cold water and heat the water slowly, he will stay there and cook.

Example - Americas Army.

Now stick a frog in boiling hot water, ###### him off, he'll jump out and never come back.

Example - Giving us GRAW and making us jump to soon - i.e ###### us off, there's no going back for more.

Thanks to GRIN for letting us know they are working hard on 1.35

[=EP_Geez]

Why do you feel you are rolling over or any one else for that matter? We are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game. This isn't about who wins the suits or us. Its about gamesmanship and game play. (They want your money) How else were you thinking of paying for it. Everyone is always trying to make money so they can have a better life. You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. (yes I know there getting paid for it) but if you asked the GRIN and Ubisoft guys (Why do you do it?) I'm sure they would say for the challenge and game play for you guys. Everyone makes mistakes and because they have made a bit of a one your going to slag them off. Sorry if it seems if I am ranting its not meant to sound like that.

I agree. Good post.

I only think people in the industry or people who have undertaken huge mods really understand how much work there is to create the game experience you (as in the team working) are aiming for. And as a developer you'll have to cut down to bare minimum to get it done as fast as possible to get some income.

Yes Wolfsong I am a IT Manager I know thats not much to do with the gaming industry but I do understand the concept of it. I don't understand why some people are yelling and screaming at Grin and Ubisoft. They know there is a lot of problems with the game and are sorting it out. Do these people think there going to gain anything from Grin by doing this(no). Its not going to hurry them up and its not going to fix the bugs faster. As you all know this game has been built completely different to any other game with the new physic card introduced. And like with anything new its going to have bugs no matter how many times you have checked it. They have to account for every peace of hardware out there that you have in your computer. Its not the same as a console like (XBOX) because nearly every single XBOX has the same hardware in it so they don't have to account for it as much. Do you know how hard this can be for them. They also have to account for the software in your computer. Believe it or not this also can cores problems. Sorry again if this seems like I am ranting

Also Wolfsong this is not in any way directed at you or any one else. Its just that when I start typing I don't stop lol

Also sorry to Vox*BDA* Sorry mate for the misunderstanding

Edited November 18, 2006 by =EP_Geez

[Vox*BDA*]

Why do you feel you are rolling over or any one else for that matter? We are expressing that we like the game and saying well done to the GRIN and Ubisoft guys and saying thank you for making the game. This isn't about who wins the suits or us. Its about gamesmanship and game play. (They want your money) How else were you thinking of paying for it. Everyone is always trying to make money so they can have a better life. You really should step back and think about what you are saying. Do you know what hard work and pain staking hours and personal time these guys have put in to this game. (yes I know there getting paid for it) but if you asked the GRIN and Ubisoft guys (Why do you do it?) I'm sure they would say for the challenge and game play for you guys. Everyone makes mistakes and because they have made a bit of a one your going to slag them off. Sorry if it seems if I am ranting its not meant to sound like that.

I agree. Good post.

I only think people in the industry or people who have undertaken huge mods really understand how much work there is to create the game experience you (as in the team working) are aiming for. And as a developer you'll have to cut down to bare minimum to get it done as fast as possible to get some income.

Yes Wolfsong I am a IT Manager I know thats not much to do with the gaming industry but I do understand the concept of it. I don't understand why some people are yelling and screaming at Grin and Ubisoft. They know there is a lot of problems with the game and are sorting it out. Do these people think there going to gain anything from Grin by doing this(no). Its not going to hurry them up and its not going to fix the bugs faster. As you all know this game has been built completely different to any other game with the new physic card introduced. And like with anything new its going to have bugs no matter how many times you have checked it. They have to account for every peace of hardware out there that you have in your computer. Its not the same as a console like (XBOX) because nearly every single XBOX has the same hardware in it so they don't have to account for it as much. Do you know how hard this can be for them. They also have to account for the software in your computer. Believe it or not this also can cores problems. Sorry again if this seems like I am ranting

Also Wolfsong this is not in any way directed at you or any one else. Its just that when I start typing I don't stop lol

Also sorry to Vox*BDA* Sorry mate for the misunderstanding

I would also like to say sory formy little rant... It's that Friday state of mind..lol!

Really I agree with you completely. Yelling at GRIN wouldn't do any good. (you need to poke them )

No , I'm not saying that. I'm saying it's important to discuss what is good and bad about the game. I had hoped that GRAW would have had fan input. But it really wasn't on the level that I think would do the Ghost Recon franchise alot of good.

Still, it's interesting in it's own right to talk about the game and see how others percieve and interpret it. I think the other point that should be made is that more comunication between developers and fans is needed.

It would be really interesting and unique if the games industry used their fan base, even if in a limited way. Interactive medium,to me, seems perfect for interactive development. Take the movie industry as an example. How many terrible sequels are made? Thousands. Why? No one asked people what they thought would be cool.

And often they're made just to capitalise on the originals success.

I firmly believe GRIN/UBI have pushed the bounderies of gaming with GRAW, and they really pushed the concept further in a new direction which shows great creative drive. I do not think they were merely using GR1.

But my criticism stems from the fact that this new direction appeared to come from someone realising the potential market for a game like Ghost Recon in the future. hence the console focus , etc,etc.

All I'm really saying is, it's worth thinking about at least, the good and the bad. And I still think it's worth discussing, if discussing is still possible.

=EP_Geez no hard feelings and it's good to see proper arguments put forward, rather than my opinion is my opinion and that's that.

Now that we're all friends.... ....there is one thing...the scale of bugs in GRAW...it would be fine if it was a few people,but all the time there are disconnects,and the close gl thingy..

And there is noting to be gained from complaining. But I think there is a lot to be gained by debating the merits of the game.

Do you know how many painstaking hours go into building a house...office block..etc..?orhow many hours of study a doctor goes through to practise medicine? is that a reason not to criticise a doctor who mis-diagnoses or an office block that leaks?

Just because somethings seem extraordinary does not mean that they are not completed without 3 things:

TIME and MONEY and EXPERIENCE

You cut any of these and the office block/diagnoses/game will suffer. In GRAWs case GRIN were not given enough time to have it ready because of all the console work. I think that was a mistake. And Ubisoft was in charge of time and money.

[Papa6]

well being that ep=Geez is an IT guy, he'd have to be a big player in the net code side of the game if he were part of the development.

But PC's are Pc's and IEEE standards keep the industry in check. whether you play on an Xbox360, or the like the systems should be able to work perfectly together.

GRAW however, is way to difficult to mod from my standpoint. you so much as edit one file and you can't join games with stock maps. I've said this before but, GRAW wasn't intended to be a highly modded game.. if at all.

The game has great visuals, but MP mode is getting boring because i don't play much and some folks just know where every great hide is. So to some degree, I'm shying away from MP games. I do like SP mode and have edited my GRAW install to be able to play any mission i want to.

the game handling is sooo...console to me. I feel like I'm playing a game and not "IN" the game as the soldier

the draw distance...well, I've been over THAT topic a jillion times..