Time At The Range

[Ruin]

I finally got to go home this past weekend. I've been in DC since Sept, 1 and needed a break from the city.

So, Saturday afternoon I loaded up my truck with my toys (DPMS AR-15, Sistema M1911, Two Remington 870s, Ruger 10/22, and a Smith and Wesson Model 58 - 41Mag) and spent a few hours at the range with my girlfriend.

I also brought my newest toy, a Nikon D80 DSLR camera. I mounted it on a tripod, set it on continuous and began shooting. I hope you all enjoy some pictures I snapped!

Gotta love that last picture.

And I know, my girlfriend is tiny, she's 4'11" and 90lbs. Hence why that 20" AR-15 looks like a 40" haha. You should see her with my 870!

Alright, hope you all enjoyed!

[Whisper_44]

Good Clean fun.. nice efforts there Cam..you need to get a flat top receiver, an RAS and ACOG to turn that 20" into an A4 clone

[FA sear]

Nice pics Ruin.

Whisper offers some good suggestions. Maybe an ARMS SIR system would work? I'd ditch the ACOG, poor eye relief and no variability in magnification. I'd go with an IOR, or Nightforce optic.

[WhiteKnight77]

Ruin, you should hold the rifles not at the magazine but under the barrel when firing.

Good pics.

[Ruin]

Thanks guys!

My AR is a flat-top receiver, I put the carry-handle on as a cheap way to send bullets down-range.

I'm already trying to decide what to do this summer to make it easier to shoot. I was thinking of an Aimpoint ML2 and then buying the Aimpoint 3x magnifier to go with it at some point.

I've also been debating buying a scope of some sort, and then an Aimpoint for a 16" upper. I'm still undecided on what to do. I'll be able to decide better either over Christmas or Summer. For now, it's all sorts of fun.

@WK, thanks for the tip. I'm usually pretty good about that, haha.

[Whisper_44]

I know quite a few shooters who use the mag-well as a vert grip of sorts..as long as your technique is good, and the grip consistent, I think you'll be okay..though most of those that I see do it, do it with a shorter rifle

[Ruin]

It's a bit more comfortable for me, I'll buy a VG at some point, I almost want to save for the Surefire M900A VG/FL combo. Looks sweet, and by the time you buy the two separately, might as well get the combined package.

Here are some toys I've been pricing:

Aimpoint Comp ML2 w/ARMS #16A mount for 16" M4 Upper and Surefire 900A for kicks.

Trijicon TA01 and Harris Bipod for 20" upper.

I realize that the military grade stuff (like Trijicon, Aimpoint and Surefire) is more expensive, and generally unnecessary for the average shooter, however, I've weighed this out. If I'm going to invest in this hobby, I firmly believe you get what you pay for. I take good care of my gear and could plan on having these sights for years to come.

Anyway, I'm not going to buy a second lower just yet, I'd rather have two uppers for now and invest in more toys. I might even scrap the 16" upper, and get only toys for now. Just thinking out loud.

EDIT: Did some more research. Made some changes.

Falcon 4 inch Rail

Trijicon ACOG Model TA01

Trijicon TA51 Mount

Trijicon ACOG 4x32 Scope Caps

Harris Series LM-1A2 Bipod

TangoDown Vertical Foregrip [black]

Eotech Model 512 - AA Batteries [None; Scopecoat]

I would eventually buy a 16" upper for the EOTech, once I have money for a quad rail and other tacti-cool goodies.

[FA sear]

Having owned more than one ACOG, I personally would steer a prospective buyer away from these optics. They have LESS than two inches of eye relief, and they do not offer magnification adustments. They also do not offer reticle lighting adjustments, so if you are shooting at night, and a light shines into the optic, the reticle simply washes out.

I would strongly recommend a Nightforce optic, IOR Valdada, or a Schmit Bender variable scope. All these scopes offer more than three inches of eye relief, and some as much as four. The only downside is that some of the Schmit Benders only have "hunting" reticles, but I believe they are making more of their scopes available with mil dot rets. Nightforce, and IOR pretty much offer a broad range of reticles with their scopes.

I have sold all my ACOGs at this point and I don't miss them one bit. Don't take this the wrong way, ACOGs are nice optics, but IMO, too many people rate these optic far too high.

As far as quadrail grips go, I personally would go with the ARMS SIR system. However, Vltor's VIS does seem pretty nice, but I have not actually owned one of these, so I can't really say for certian how good it is, but hey, it is Vltor right? I'm in the middle of a 6.8mm SPC project, and I might use my ARMS for my commando and order a VIS for the current project. I'm not in any rush, so I'll take my time and see in a few weeks.

The barrel is a Noveske, and it is on back order, so I have time to decide on what kind of upper and grips I will use.

Anyway, just some recommendations I'm making. Of course there are alot of good choices out there that you can make. Good luck!

Edit: BTW, Leupold makes a 1-3X red dot sight. It is pretty nice, and the red dot is just like that of an Eotech.

Edited November 7, 2006 by jchung

[Ruin]

Thanks jchung! I appreciate it.

The Trijicons are quite expensive and that's the biggest deterrent right now.

I'm just tossing ideas around right now to get a better feel for what I want.

I'm debating between upgrading the current 20" or buying a seperate 16" for an M4gery and making the 20" a future SPR-ish (minus the suppressor of course). It all depends on what kind of internship I land next semester.

[Whisper_44]

My Upper is at VLTOR as I type this, I will report on the VIS when I have it back - and I will have an Olympic Arms FIRSH Rail for sale when I get my Upper Back, as well as the stripped A3 upper

jchung, which length Noveske Barrel did you order? Are you going to get the KH3 also? he makes some great stuff up there. I will be purchasing a Noveske Lower for my future project. Are you referring to the Leupold-CQT?

[FA sear]

@Ruin

Your welcome, and keep us updated on your project there.

My Upper is at VLTOR as I type this, I will report on the VIS when I have it back - and I will have an Olympic Arms FIRSH Rail for sale when I get my Upper Back, as well as the stripped A3 upper

jchung, which length Noveske Barrel did you order? Are you going to get the KH3 also? he makes some great stuff up there. I will be purchasing a Noveske Lower for my future project. Are you referring to the Leupold-CQT?

I would like to hear about the VIS when you get it. Even though I am a real hardcore fan of ARMS SIR systems, I still wouldn't mind trying out something new that is of good quality.

The barrel from Noveske is a 16.1 in, and I passed on the KX3 as I am considering a quick detach suppressor for this gun. Probably a Reflex or Surefire. This one will be a semiauto only, as the 6.8mm ammo is still to expensive IMO to shoot in full auto.

The 1X-3X red dot I mentioned is the CQT. I don't own one, but I know someone that has one, and I have to say that it is the nicest red dot that I have ever used. I liked it even better than the Aimpoint I had, and even better than my friend's EoTech. I am seriously considering getting one for my 11.5in Commando.

I am also working on a 14.5 in M4 with a Knight Carrier Key. With the 10" Remy shotgun on the end, I won't need to go full auto with that one.

[Whisper_44]

Nice.. I have heard the CQT as hit or miss, but having never used one I can't speak from personal experience.

That 6.8 sounds like a good project, would be great if someone would step up and do the commercial ammo en-mass, the cartridge is gaining speed, and for most who can't hunt with the .223/5.56 offers some attractive options.

Me, I'm ready for an SBR 7.5" with the VIS from Wes at MSTN

[Ruin]

I'm really stuck on what to do. It seems like everything I *want* puts me at around $1400. Which isn't bad, I make that much a month in tips and will be working almost 4 months this summer, and during Spring semester. So, it's a big number, but isn't too bad.

I just don't know if I want a 16" upper or if I want a complete M4gery.

Right now I'm looking at an M4gery with collapsable stock Knight's RAS, TD VG, EoTech 511, Chrome BCG, YHM front flip-up sight, ergo sure grip, phantom 5c2 fh, and 2 stage trigger. All on a DPMS flat-top and stripped lower as a build project.

Or I could settle for a 16" upper that I use on my current lower, and buy the built lower later on. Hmmn, this requires more thought. I just noticed while at my range, I can't really hit anything, because I'm using only my iron sights, so I feel the need to get something with a little bit of zoom.

[Whisper_44]

If money is the issue, then I would go with just the upper, you can buy the parts you need, without need for an FFL, and take advantage of the genius in the AR Design, it's modularity.

A couple of things that I want to ad, of course you can tell me to sod off I won't take it personally.

You can get a 2pc rail in (YHM, Surefire, Midwest Industries, Daniel Defense) and not loose an ounce of quality, compared to the Name of the RAS. If you want Free Float, there are more options still than the RAS II.

I'm personally not fond of the YHM sights however, for the money I like the Troy Ind. Flip Front.. and I don't see a BUIS on your list there, I have an ARMS 40A2 on mine now, that works very nicely, Troy and LaRue both build solid Back Up Irons as well.

[Ruin]

Thanks Whisper. I'm still looking at my options and trying to be semi-practical in what I want.

The idea of a precision semi-auto has me intrigued and I'm looking more into that. This way, I can get just an upper and some glass is all I need really.

I'm looking at a 20" or maybe even 24" varminter, bull barrel with a tripod and a scope. No need for BUIS really. I won't be in any combat situation, haha. BUIS just seems like a waste of $200 for the average shooter to me, because I wouldn't co-witness (defeats the point of having a red-dot IMO) I'd just have it as is, as I like to shoot it.

I've heard YHM is a lousy rail, but DD seems pretty nice. Although, a Larue 12" rail costs as much as a Knights RAS from Del-Ton.com (which is bsaed only about 6 hours from my house, cool eh?)

Like I said, I'm still thinking about it. However, the incentive that I might be getting $700 back from my mom definitely is making me think about things sooner rather than later. I'll do some more research over the coming days and see what I come up with.

[Whisper_44]

As you wish Ruin.. it's as much fun to talk about it as it is to go and put it all together. (Almost)

And a good BUIS can be had for around $100

Mine is a 16" M4, and I wouldn't change a thing, it will shoot better than me all day long. And if you are going to build a target/varmint upper, think about Olympic SS Barrels.

[Lead Salad]

Not to sound like a complete killjoy in this thread, but every weapon taken to the range these days needs optics, range-finders, mag pouches, broom-stick foregrips and every other conceivable addon that are now the norm.

One CAN have fun just shooting an AR in classic configuration. It is good to both, IMO.

Great pics bro!

[Whisper_44]

No argument from me LS, I only shoot irons at the range..though I prefer mine with the vertical grip

[FA sear]

I took the IOR off of my commando as I really don't shoot beyond 150 with it. With an 11.5in barrel it just seems a bit pointless. Besides, irons are plenty good enough at 150 yards to make head shots with, so for short barrels IMO optics are really not necessary.

@Whisper

A 7.5in? That sounds like too much fun. Definitely post some pics.

Edit: The CQT is very nice in my opinion, but I do question how durable it is. Nightforce, IOR, and Schmit Benders can all pretty much survive a drop on a concrete floor, but I doubt a Leupold CQT would be as durable. Maybe I am wrong, but this is where I question the CQT.

Edited November 8, 2006 by jchung

[Whisper_44]

Not mine, but this is where I'm headed

[FA sear]

I like it Whisper, but that KX3 is going to be virtually useless with the muzzle flash that thing is going to create. I might actually convert my 11.5in commando into a 14.5in as the flash on it is pretty significant. With that conversion I would mount a Knight Masterkey on it.

Eh, who knows, I still have to finish my 6.8mm and with all the backorders on the parts that project alone is going to take another two months.

BTW, have you ever used a CAA tactical stock? I heard that they are supposed to be real nice. I'm trying to decide whether to go with them, but I have not actually had a chance to handle one. I have used the Vltor, and the Magpul, and they are top notch quality, but the CAA I have not seen up close (just pictures).

Any experience with the CAA?

[Whisper_44]

Speaking first hand from what I have seen with the KH3 and a 12.5" Noveske the flash was large but directed toward the business end and downrange. It aslo did a noticeable job of reducing perceived sound signature for the shooter, and even those in the firing line next to them.

I have not seen the CAA firsthand, only in the magazines.. I like my VLTOR, and am a Homer for them..but admit I am biased. MagPuls new CTR offering is very attractive however, quite simple, and minimalistic, if you don't need the battery storage the price is right. Their UBR looks to pick up where the M93B left off.

[pz3]

I was going to goto the range this weekend. Didnt make quiet enough money though.

Maybe next weekend

Not mine, but this is where I'm headed

Oh I like it. Now only if I can save enough money to buy the parts =)

[Ryan243]

I was going to goto the range this weekend. Didnt make quiet enough money though.

Can't afford the range or the ammo?

[pz3]

not enough for strippers and range costs... im only a man I have to choose.

no I just started a new job waiting for pay period to catch up... once that happens Im off to the range.

Edited November 9, 2006 by Prozac360