Jump to content

Why GRIN and UBI got it all wrong....


Vox*BDA*
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 107
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The rest got tired of complaining and left.

Man i wish this was true!

Whats wrong will reasonable criticism of a game? if everyone left who disagreed with you, how could that be a forum?

More to the point......Can't you see the value in making people talk coherently about a game without reverting to "because you're gay"?

At least if I have been negative I have made desent reasons for it...

Give me your reasons for why my points aren't valid and then maybe something constructive can happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The rest got tired of complaining and left.

Man i wish this was true!

Whats wrong will reasonable criticism of a game?

Nothing....but there is a big difference in reasonable criticism and straight up just complaining. I was refering to the ones who never supply any constructive feedback and just complain about how the game sucks and is dead.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Whats wrong will reasonable criticism of a game? if everyone left who disagreed with you, how could that be a forum?

Give me your reasons for why my points aren't valid and then maybe something constructive can happen.

I'm not going to speak for Postal, but I agree with his comment, but I did not take them to apply to you. Reasonable criticism is fine, and a reasoned explaination of why something sucks is great. But most of the incessant whiners & bitchers have gone.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:01 PM' post='420297']

Whats wrong will reasonable criticism of a game? if everyone left who disagreed with you, how could that be a forum?

Give me your reasons for why my points aren't valid and then maybe something constructive can happen.

I'm not going to speak for Postal, but I agree with his comment, but I did not take them to apply to you. Reasonable criticism is fine, and a reasoned explaination of why something sucks is great. But most of the incessant whiners & bitchers have gone.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOST...NOT ALL!!!!!

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :D

i agree with u- whinning gets us nowhere....

so now everyone is happy...or are they...DUN DUN DUN

(lol)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reasonable critism and describing in detail what we wanted and needed in the game got us nowhere too.

Now I'm tired of caring or trying to describe what is wrong and needs to be changed or what GRAW should have been.

They should already know by now, hell they should of already known before the game came out. Ever since rumors of GR2 in 2002 people were coming to the forums to voice what they think the next game should be and have in it.

Theres no excuses, they just screwed it up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Reasonable critism and describing in detail what we wanted and needed in the game got us nowhere too.

Now I'm tired of caring or trying to describe what is wrong and needs to be changed or what GRAW should have been.

They should already know by now, hell they should of already known before the game came out. Ever since rumors of GR2 in 2002 people were coming to the forums to voice what they think the next game should be and have in it.

Theres no excuses, they just screwed it up.

AMMO i feel your pain...but today I offer this : a mere smile...

kevin_henson_child_support.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

not to get off topic but to generalize, why the hell do game development companies ALWAYS screw up big titles?

it would be logical for me to keep a title and it's content the same but just advance the graphics and add maybe more content.

I think on the other hand and I'll use RSE as an example is that RSE's team that developed ghost recon left the company and the new team comes in changing things trying to be a hero and make a name for themselves always jack games up because they take a perfectly good title and want to add thier own twist [GR]->GRAW and it loses it's fanbase. the people who like GRAW seem by appearances to be a new crowd.

us old GR guys/gals are left hanging because GRAW is trying to reach back and get [GR] into GRAW. So it would appear to [GR] fans that GRAW is a lesser version of the GR2 scenario in just that GRAW materialized. so for an old GR fan like myself I still haven't gotten what I wanted.

New crowd? I'm as old as dirt in GR1 years.. (since the demo)

Currently those who like it are the one's that like TDM and team vs team games.

Those that don't are old timer co-opers.

I agree with you 100% ROCOAFZ.

The unfortunate thing is that it is the Old time Co-op players that have kept the GR franchise alive for 5 years. The TvT and TDM side died a while ago in GR but the Co-op was still keeping the name alive yet it's us that got shafted ;)

I have to disagree with what you say. most clans have quit the GR franchise because of the lackluster TvT play of GRAW. COOP was on fire yes, i had the pleasure of playing some COOP tourney's with the alphasquad back in 2001-2002 as a member of (xlii). but man was it fun.

But TvT GR is helluva difference like night and day from GRAW

' date='Sep 14 2006, 10:01 PM' post='420297']

Whats wrong will reasonable criticism of a game? if everyone left who disagreed with you, how could that be a forum?

Give me your reasons for why my points aren't valid and then maybe something constructive can happen.

I'm not going to speak for Postal, but I agree with his comment, but I did not take them to apply to you. Reasonable criticism is fine, and a reasoned explaination of why something sucks is great. But most of the incessant whiners & bitchers have gone.

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MOST...NOT ALL!!!!!

MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE :D

i agree with u- whinning gets us nowhere....

so now everyone is happy...or are they...DUN DUN DUN

(lol)

If they don't fix the issues that are here again, then it's done.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your points are all valid.

I was referring to ROCO.

LOL ... apparently you must be a fan also... you didn't leave ;)

Why complain about what you can't change?

Why not propose things instead of complaining... it may get you farther.

Just because i don't criticize does not mean i don't have valid points... or i wouldn't be in so many of the protected forums nor offering assistance to admins in server command console help and such.

My view is... I see it as a different game then GR1. One that i can actually like. I am not a co-oper and TVT is pretty fun (although i will play co-op now and then for a quick fun game)

Many things i have suggested and asked for have been incorporated into the game. Many things you have critisized about have not... see a pattern?

Edited by ROCOAFZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roco I appreciate the effort you put into defending GRAW but be real. I agree that it is fun to play but there’s too much wrong with it and it's hard to defend it even when I myself enjoy playing it. I to see it as a different game then GR1 and I wanted that but come on. They had all the multiplayer, single player, and co-op game mode/options everyone wanted just sitting out there from the GR1 experience. Alls they had to do was implement them into GRAW. Whether it be at there release date that they use as an excuse or on one of the patches they've released since. That's all I wanted, not the same game but the same or more options. I mean come on, though I very much appreciate the modders and the maps they make I didn't buy the game to hear from the devs that it's up to the modders to do the rest!!! Maps?? Come on did anyone think that this many maps would make anyone happy? The amount of servers on gheyspy and handful of servers that have a respectable amount of people on it are proof enough. Bo calling people "Trolls" and crap talk from devs like do we have to do everything for you (Hell yes you do you made the game and we paid you not vice versa) or something to that effect assure that I will not be buying another GRIN product unless it gets rave reviews from the online community. Don't take this as a personal attack against you Roco hell I enjoy playing GRAW and I enjoy playing on the AFZ server but all of these things are true.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Roco I appreciate the effort you put into defending GRAW but be real. I agree that it is fun to play but there’s too much wrong with it and it's hard to defend it even when I myself enjoy playing it. I to see it as a different game then GR1 and I wanted that but come on. They had all the multiplayer, single player, and co-op game mode/options everyone wanted just sitting out there from the GR1 experience. Alls they had to do was implement them into GRAW. Whether it be at there release date that they use as an excuse or on one of the patches they've released since. That's all I wanted, not the same game but the same or more options. I mean come on, though I very much appreciate the modders and the maps they make I didn't buy the game to hear from the devs that it's up to the modders to do the rest!!! Maps?? Come on did anyone think that this many maps would make anyone happy? The amount of servers on gheyspy and handful of servers that have a respectable amount of people on it are proof enough. Bo calling people "Trolls" and crap talk from devs like do we have to do everything for you (Hell yes you do you made the game and we paid you not vice versa) or something to that effect assure that I will not be buying another GRIN product unless it gets rave reviews from the online community. Don't take this as a personal attack against you Roco hell I enjoy playing GRAW and I enjoy playing on the AFZ server but all of these things are true.

I never take things personally believe it or not. LOL!... i just like kicking ammo a few times in word wars.

It could have been a GR2 console port ;)

I'm not saying GRAW is bug free. What i am saying is all the complaining and comparing doesn't help.

We have what we have. The only thing left we can do is try to help improve it. At this stage... If it would have been released i think a lot of the GR1 TVT would have been happy... happy enough not to have moved on for laddering. Problem is... this stage is to late... but ... if an expansion is released for christmas they may return. So my theory is ... tell them what is wrong and what we want... sensibly and maybe we'll all have a little xmas present...

As for the comments. People take things way to personal. His troll comment I doubt was even close to being serious. although for some... i guess I would agree.

Remember... there native language isn't english. and we are in a forum where we can't see facial expressions and seem to take things out of hand easily, especially when we are passionate about it.

I am pretty direct. Some don't like it.... some are really surprized when they find out i'm generally a nice guy, although in my posts you can't tell it because of the directness and to the point (viiper and tow angel have both heard me on comms)

Remember everyone... this is just a game.. not a lifestyle... Why get so bent out of shape... when you can help shape it.

Edited by ROCOAFZ
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your points are all valid.

I was referring to ROCO.

LOL ... apparently you must be a fan also... you didn't leave ;)

Why complain about what you can't change?

Why not propose things instead of complaining... it may get you farther.

Just because i don't criticize does not mean i don't have valid points... or i wouldn't be in so many of the protected forums nor offering assistance to admins in server command console help and such.

My view is... I see it as a different game then GR1. One that i can actually like. I am not a co-oper and TVT is pretty fun (although i will play co-op now and then for a quick fun game)

Many things i have suggested and asked for have been incorporated into the game. Many things you have critisized about have not... see a pattern?

Im not a fan of GRAW, but I am one of [GR]. Thats why I am here.

What left is there to propose? Its all been said, why say it over and over and over again if no one listens.

You dont know what I have suggested or what input for the game I have given in the past.

The fact is they didnt listen, that was evident in the innitial release. Now they are trying to catch up, but its just not good enough, so far. Probably never will be, they hurt themselves by releasing the game prematurely. Now most who have tried it and stopped playing, wont come back. The reputation has already been put in place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your points are all valid.

I was referring to ROCO.

LOL ... apparently you must be a fan also... you didn't leave ;)

Why complain about what you can't change?

Why not propose things instead of complaining... it may get you farther.

Just because i don't criticize does not mean i don't have valid points... or i wouldn't be in so many of the protected forums nor offering assistance to admins in server command console help and such.

My view is... I see it as a different game then GR1. One that i can actually like. I am not a co-oper and TVT is pretty fun (although i will play co-op now and then for a quick fun game)

Many things i have suggested and asked for have been incorporated into the game. Many things you have critisized about have not... see a pattern?

Im not a fan of GRAW, but I am one of [GR]. Thats why I am here.

What left is there to propose? Its all been said, why say it over and over and over again if no one listens.

You dont know what I have suggested or what input for the game I have given in the past.

The fact is they didnt listen, that was evident in the innitial release. Now they are trying to catch up, but its just not good enough, so far. Probably never will be, they hurt themselves by releasing the game prematurely. Now most who have tried it and stopped playing, wont come back. The reputation has already been put in place.

There is a GR1 forum yah know?

Now most who have tried it and stopped playing, wont come back.

I think that could change with an expansion. There isn't anything else out there.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many things i have suggested and asked for have been incorporated into the game. Many things you have critisized about have not... see a pattern?

- ROCo

Could you give us examples please? How did you make contact with thte developers and what was the culture like.ie were they happy to listen to you, or were they only paying lip service?

I'm not saying GRAW is bug free. What i am saying is all the complaining and comparing doesn't help.

We have what we have. The only thing left we can do is try to help improve it. At this stage... If it would have been released i think a lot of the GR1 TVT would have been happy... happy enough not to have moved on for laddering. Problem is... this stage is to late... but ... if an expansion is released for christmas they may return. So my theory is ... tell them what is wrong and what we want... sensibly and maybe we'll all have a little xmas present...

-ROCO

That is exactly what I am trying to say....I'm not complaining - I'm trying to get people together to put something constructive to GRIN/UBI. Ghost Recon.net seems to be the place to do it. But we all need to write out what we don't like,what we want, and then that needs to be presented to GRIN/UBI. This is the ONLY way I see them listening, if we can make a document take presents ALL of GRAW online community.

Im not a fan of GRAW, but I am one of [GR]. Thats why I am here.

What left is there to propose? Its all been said, why say it over and over and over again if no one listens.

You dont know what I have suggested or what input for the game I have given in the past.

The fact is they didnt listen, that was evident in the innitial release. Now they are trying to catch up, but its just not good enough, so far. Probably never will be, they hurt themselves by releasing the game prematurely. Now most who have tried it and stopped playing, wont come back. The reputation has already been put in place.

-AMMO

Ammo - I think we all need to write out what we don't like..AND what we want from a GR game...Then we need to put these ideas together and give a CONDENSED LIST to GRIN/UBI ... preferrably with actual talking. Some admin from GR.net should be the person to bring our views to the people who work on the game. This is all we can do. If you have done this already, please tell us HOW,WHERE and WHEN you were involved with GRIN/UBI during development of GRAW. We need to tell them as a community - otherwise they will see only a bunch of fanboys preaching at them...(like that word fanboy...LOL)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you give us examples please? How did you make contact with thte developers and what was the culture like.ie were they happy to listen to you, or were they only paying lip service?

the easiest way to contact us either through email or PMs

I have answered to almost all pms I have gotten so far(and they arent few), I might have missed a couple, but most have been replied to and taken into consideration and if im not the right person to ask I have forwarded it to someone else who has most certainly on most occasions answered.So I would say the culture is "good" :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Could you give us examples please? How did you make contact with thte developers and what was the culture like.ie were they happy to listen to you, or were they only paying lip service?

the easiest way to contact us either through email or PMs

I have answered to almost all pms I have gotten so far(and they arent few), I might have missed a couple, but most have been replied to and taken into consideration and if im not the right person to ask I have forwarded it to someone else who has most certainly on most occasions answered.So I would say the culture is "good" :)

I can say that i have had multiple PM's with alot of Devs back and fourth. I have given suggestions as well as asked for help. I have recieved a PM back for everyone i have sent and it is always helpful and curtious.

Actualy i recieved a PM from one of the Devs because i had posted a problem on the forums and no one had answered me so he took it upon himself to PM me and ask me for some more detail into my problem, then replied back what the problem was and that a fix was in the works.

Latly i have been pullin on Grin_Everts ear and he has been very very helpful...oh and patient!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Grin wille....I have to ask....what do you guys feel about the negative vibes being thrown your way?

Can you see that although some of it is aggressive, most people want to contribute their opinion and maybe help make a better game. Now don't get me wrong: I personally understand COMPLETELY the difference between everyone standing around talking ###### because it's easy....and the actual hours of work that makes these concepts a reality.

I do think there are a lot of intelligent and creative people here who are a resource if chosen to act in that way. They can also probably be your worst nightmare if rubbed sideways....lol

I hope you are never offended by the views expressed here and I don't think you are from what I've read.(I guess it helps being paid not to get offended too!!!!!!!!!!!LOL)

I also think it's important to sometimes kick up the hive to see if anything good can come out. I dunno maybe there's some honey still in there... :hehe:

I agree. I have had a response from grin_bumbi with regards a map problem..But I was more interested as to what kind of Fan input at the early stages is used?

Is it possible to put a Ghost Recon Manifesto(couldn't resist LOL) to the developers of what we think? I mean a frank disscusion between the two would be great!!

More importantly.....Is it practical to even talk about this with regards future development of the game?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Many things i have suggested and asked for have been incorporated into the game. Many things you have critisized about have not... see a pattern?

- ROCo

Could you give us examples please? How did you make contact with thte developers and what was the culture like.ie were they happy to listen to you, or were they only paying lip service?

I'm not saying GRAW is bug free. What i am saying is all the complaining and comparing doesn't help.

We have what we have. The only thing left we can do is try to help improve it. At this stage... If it would have been released i think a lot of the GR1 TVT would have been happy... happy enough not to have moved on for laddering. Problem is... this stage is to late... but ... if an expansion is released for christmas they may return. So my theory is ... tell them what is wrong and what we want... sensibly and maybe we'll all have a little xmas present...

-ROCO

That is exactly what I am trying to say....I'm not complaining - I'm trying to get people together to put something constructive to GRIN/UBI. Ghost Recon.net seems to be the place to do it. But we all need to write out what we don't like,what we want, and then that needs to be presented to GRIN/UBI. This is the ONLY way I see them listening, if we can make a document take presents ALL of GRAW online community.

Im not a fan of GRAW, but I am one of [GR]. Thats why I am here.

What left is there to propose? Its all been said, why say it over and over and over again if no one listens.

You dont know what I have suggested or what input for the game I have given in the past.

The fact is they didnt listen, that was evident in the innitial release. Now they are trying to catch up, but its just not good enough, so far. Probably never will be, they hurt themselves by releasing the game prematurely. Now most who have tried it and stopped playing, wont come back. The reputation has already been put in place.

-AMMO

Ammo - I think we all need to write out what we don't like..AND what we want from a GR game...Then we need to put these ideas together and give a CONDENSED LIST to GRIN/UBI ... preferrably with actual talking. Some admin from GR.net should be the person to bring our views to the people who work on the game. This is all we can do. If you have done this already, please tell us HOW,WHERE and WHEN you were involved with GRIN/UBI during development of GRAW. We need to tell them as a community - otherwise they will see only a bunch of fanboys preaching at them...(like that word fanboy...LOL)

PM's. They are usually really quick to answer(especially in the morning for me i'm est -5 gmt). Lists... (like the small bug list i compiled where i edited my 1st post to put in a list form of every problem seen by more then one user (confirmed problems, not random or add ons))

I am also part of the Server admin group, and beta tester since MP2.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

OK...but you guys seem to missing my point.

I'm talking about the future. There are some great committed GRIN guys answwering our technical problems that we are encountering. The 1.3 has features that you guys asked for. That is really great.

But I was thinking on a bigger scale. LIke getting a post up with everybodies ideas on where to go in the future and having a big free for all discussion that could lead to the next release being created with even just a small piece of our input.

maybe this is not possible. I'm not sure. But this is the kinda thing we need to do if we are going to get what we want in future.

The name of this post was chosen to be abrasive and get a reaction. I actually expected more of a reaction. Guess I'll have to be more confrontational next time.

All the whiners and moaners must be forced to articulate their desires. And all the yes men must ask themseleves is there anything they want extra. then we can all work to create somethime new and exciting. Just talking about how great GRIN tech support is doesn't really help us with future releases.

Is it possible for this forum to produce ideas that would be incorporated into a future release of some kind?

If the answer is yes then there is a lot of work we can start on now.

If it is no...well I guess I'll have to S-T-F-U.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is it possible for this forum to produce ideas that would be incorporated into a future release of some kind?

If the answer is yes then there is a lot of work we can start on now.

If it is no...well I guess I'll have to S-T-F-U.

That's a great idea, but I see one problem: How do you limit the discussion to ideas for a new release only, and avoid pro/con discussions about GRAW? The moderators would have to delete a LOT of replies, and then you'd hear a lot of bitching about censorship and fanboyism. If the moderators don't object to having to excessively moderate, and people don't get bent out of shape if a post gets edited or deleted, then I'd be all for it.

Also, you'd have to somewhat limit bickering. If I think it's a good idea to have the TL carry a tuba and you don't think it's a good idea, who is right and who is wrong?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share


×
×
  • Create New...