Rocky Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Can someone please explain to me in simple terms what the situ is with North Korea. I.E. Who do they have a beef with and why? Why are they resuming work on a nuclear programme? They seem to make making more and more headlines, and I have the feeling this is going to develop into something serious, but I do not know the background to this situation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Rocky, I hope I don't short change you with my answer as I'm sure that any doctoral candidate could go into book length about this. I think we have a country here that believes it has nothing to loose. Horrible economy, less than enviable living conditions and a dictator. Bad combination. I think they have simply become tired of playing third fiddle to everyone else and picked a convenient time to try and play the only diplomatic hand they have. The "We are nuts and you better believe it" hand. Scare tactics during a time when it's primary adversary is otherwise occupied. I think Kim believes that having Nukes will make him a world player, and he's right. Just not the type of world player that's favorable to his people. The trump card here is China. NK gets a great majority of it's power (electricity, etc.) and military support from China. China wants to move more towards the world stage economically and politically. China could really knock the ball out of the diplomatic park by easing tensions on this one. I hope they do so. It's no skin off our back and it makes the Chineese look good. A win / win. Besides, adding some political clout to China's resume could be a stabilizer of sorts. Give them a warm fuzzy feeling, which helps everyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KillerKane Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Kane here hey Rocky The State Dept's 1999 report on Human Rights is very informative US State Department report on North Korean human rights North Korea's own "official" website, actually created by foreign supporters, gives some insight into their collective mindset. North Korea's "Official" website Places like this make you appreciate living in the West, where we truly are fortunate. Kane out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebb Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 The North Koreans are desperate to start up a diplomatic dialogue with the US and the west, so they will do and say anything which will give them headlines, as long as they think that everyone is worried about their nuclear capapbility, and their resolve to use it, then they hope that the US will start talks with them again, and give them the money and help that they want, but it is a very dangerous gamble.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 As 300Mag saidf - they (and I say they because it is not clear who is in complete charge) want to be world players. The "We're crazy and you better believe it" thing is their nuclear blackmail. Again, as Mag said, they've nothing to lose by waging a war that would be horrendously destructive to the whole peninsula. On the other hand, they have everything to gain by threatening said destruction and gaining concessions and handouts. I hope the world (including China, but I wouldn't put money on it) makes a seroius effort to diffuse the situation before they get out of hand. Speaking from personal experience, the Koreans are very similar to the Japanese (to outsiders at least). Once they start something they can't dtop it - someone else has to reign them in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted April 9, 2003 Author Share Posted April 9, 2003 Oh boy. Thanks for the info. That's a huge State Department page KK but I will read it all, thanks. Am I right in thinking that certain countries have nuclear capability, but that's okay because they are not actively undertaking a nuclear programme? Whereas NK is happy to announce they are undertaking a nuclear programme? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I posted on this a few weeks ago. Here comes the monkey wrench was the thread I believe. I knew NK would wait until we were tied up to do something. 300 pretty much sums it up, and I think he's also right about the Chinese. I hope they do help out and create the win win so that we dont have to split our forces up at a crucial point in Iraq. Right now, we have fully 1/2 of the US military in Iraq. If the Chinese dont help out on this one, guess where the other half of our forces will have to go? That will fully tie up the US military, and that will not be a good thing. Not good for anyone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I have been paying close attention to the Rhetoric coming out of North Korea myself as trouble there would mean big trouble all over. I have said in private discussions and on here as well that I thought North Korea was looking at the trouble with Iraq and watching to see how it was resolved. Of particular note was their earlier stance on UN involvement in trying to solve the crisis. If you will remember initially North Korea said "any interference by the UN Sercuity Council would be tantamount to a declaration of war". Well that stance has been soften somewhat. For those that have not heard the lastest out of NK is "any interference by the UN Security Council would seriously jeapordize a peacefull solution to the crisis" Not exactly a complete back down in their stance but that is a softening of their words. I can't help but think that maybe China, behind the scenes, is telling them to ease up and additionally looking at the route in Iraq and not wanting the same thing happening to them has went a long way in changing their stance. Opinions? Stout Hearts Warhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 (edited) The conflict in Iraq did not go the way the North Korean government desired. I think they wanted street by street for months, heavy casualties, and the one final key to the United States cutting a deal with them. An American public that had been emotionally and mentally stunned by a bloody and long conflict, thus forcing our leaders into a softer stance for fear of public backlash. Sorry Mr. Kim, Mr. grand leader and all seeing. We kicked their ######. Edited April 10, 2003 by 300Mag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 NK must also be looking at what happens to an unpopular regime when they are proven to be defenseless against liberators. The popular uprisings started in Basra and especially Baghdad at the first sign of US tanks rolling through the streets. To top it off most professional soldiers went home or went underground, leaving a fierce yet ineffective militia to do the fighting. The same will probably happen in Tikrit. Iraq's leaders have lost control of the country even before the Americans have gained control. NK's leaders can no doubt imagine what will happen to their vastly inferior troops and equipment when the JDAMs start coming down. Modern war is just too effective for an outdated, bloated army to fight back against, and a taste of freedom from decades of oppression and fear may be all it takes to make their people turn on them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 I have a sneaking suspicion that we will see NK try to back down slowly from this. If that happens then I guess President Bush will have played his cards correctly after all with Mr. Kim Stout Hearts Warhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Yeah.....and with all of these troubles seeming to get resolved, and in fact if they are resolved or making teriffic progress, guess who we will be stuck with for president for another 4 years? There goes the economy . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 (edited) Economy started to dip six months before Bush took office. The over inflated tech stocks of the 90s were the problem. Not Bush. Whatever Bush can be blamed for, he inherited our money situation. The tax cut is a different issue. Edited May 5, 2003 by 300Mag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 @Phantom You talk as though having Bush as President for another four years is a bad thing. You talk like he is some kind of growth. At least he isn't Gore or Clinton. And 300mag is right, the way federal budgets work, or at least the way they were explained to me, we were do to feel the effects of the previous administration's budget plans. 9/11 sure didn't help things either. As far as the stock market goes you can ask just about anyone in that field of work and they will tell you that the stock market has a tendency to correct itself when it goes either exceptionally high or low. Stout Hearts Warhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Crocodile Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 What if NK decides to go to war with China's support against US(hypotheticly).....How many Iraqs POWs are the coalision feeding? Lets say NK and China order 5% their soldiers to surrender.......lets say...2 million GIs How to feed all these people and still feed coalision troops? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Youre right guys. He did inherit the current money problem. But lets face it, the Republican's dont have a great track record with domestic policy. But I have to admit, when it comes to foreign policy, and it's time to break out and flash cajones, the republicans are superbly good at it. I just hope that Bush sees this, and does something for our economy as well, and tries to handle some domestic issues, which, lets face it, the republicans arent real famous for handling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warhawk Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 @Sgt.Crocodile That is a good question but I think that will be accounted for. You need to remember that the US produces enough grain to feed the world. While it would present a problem it wouldn't be one that would be difficult to over come. @phantom110565 Personally I think the Republican's problem isn't it's domestic policy but rather it's Public Relations. The democrats have gotten real good at protraying the Republicians as heartless, well you know. And from the outside looking in tough love often looks that way. But people are better off when they work for what they get rather than depend on someone else to give it to them. Stout Hearts Warhawk Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zantar45 Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 This is not good if its true. read me * This does explain why Pakistan was testing missiles a few years ago, the event raised tensions around the world. *article is from a Pakistani new site* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Don't panic. NK has three or four nukes at most. The figure I hear floated most often is two, if any. Their missiles can barely hit Alaska so far, and they don't have a hundred of those. What America needs to worry about are the 8 million Koreans in Seoul who are almost certain to get fried at the outset of hostilities. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Don't panic. NK has three or four nukes at most. The figure I hear floated most often is two, if any. Their missiles can barely hit Alaska so far, and they don't have a hundred of those. What America needs to worry about are the 8 million Koreans in Seoul who are almost certain to get fried at the outset of hostilities. Yeah, that's a big concern. However, I'm personally convinced that Kim's current antics exemplify the definition of 'terrorism', and he should not be bargained with at all. He needs to be reminded that it's his nation that's threatening everyone else, not vice versa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I think Kim likes calling the shots - or being seen to. He wants to be a world player and the only way he knows how is to make trouble. His regime needs to be taken down. This is a clear threat to world security. The tricky part is how to do it without endangering the neighborhood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 (edited) I don't think there is a way to take out the all mighty dwarf without starting it up. This is a regime that uses any ill that is felt by NK to blame pending US military ambition. I feel sure that if Kimby drops over one day, it will without a doubt be the fault of the US, which requires full retaliation. Wonder what will happen if Japan finally gets tired of this and builds a few nukes, which they could do in a matter of months. Edited May 5, 2003 by 300Mag Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
connie lingus Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Greetings! If I were a gambler I'd bet that Japan already has tactical nuclear warheads and the apparatus for deployment standing by. If history is any indicator, they will be used without warning! connie lingus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specter Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Don't panic. NK has three or four nukes at most. The figure I hear floated most often is two, if any. There's a saying here in America Budgie. I'm not afraid of the guy that has a thousand nukes. I'm scared as hell of the guy that only has one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
budgie Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 If I were a gambler I'd bet that Japan already has tactical nuclear warheads and the apparatus for deployment standing by. If history is any indicator, they will be used without warning! As the self-appointed resident Japan expert, that is unlikely. THey have a constitution that renounces war and their people and politicians truly believe in it on the whole. The Japanese will always tell you "we are a peaceful country" and We hate war and atomic weapons" and that is their enduring self image (reasons and consequences are a study in themselves) As long as Japan is protected by US bases, it's unlikely they'll do any secret building. It is also a free country of 125 million crammed into an area the size of california and it would be hard to construct any secret facilities without the local press getting wind of it. That said, they have the capability - the country is riddled with reactors. If the US ever pulled the defense plug and NK got too pushy, it is said Japan could build a bomb in a matter of months. They also have the high-tech weaponry (F-16s, battlecruisers and destroyers etc...) to deliver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.