So Srry to all of the COOP players out there

[LT.INSTG8R]

Im sorry Angel this is nothing like the Co-op we have come to exepect. FF and Recon are just that, different modes. Its even more of a hodpodge as its not even in the same mode as the "Co-op" we have in game at present(basically the MP component tweaked to support AI) which is well pretty much the state of the regular "Co-op" (SP mission tweaked to put in real players) which was obvious from the moment I played it.

Only TL triggers events, hears sounds/voice cues from other players and the rest of the players are just wearing AI suits along for the ride.

The [GR] Co-op is as [GR] as their brilliant attempt at "Anti Aliasing" , another cleverly worded throw together that tho "kinda" does what it says it should barely, but just enough to make the statement true. We "kinda" have Anti-Aliasing like we "kinda" have Co-op

[ToW-Angel]

If you want [GR], mod the hell out of the freaking GR:AW to be [GR]... OH WAIT... That's what they did to [GR] to make it a great game, RIGHT? OH WAIT... Guess what? YOU CAN DO THE SAME FREAKING THING WITH GR:AW! OH HOLY HELL! What a freaking brilliant idea! **LIGHT BULB TURNED ON YET?**

YOU CAN MOD GR:AW LIKE YOU DID [GR].

I read through these forums several times... [GR] was never great in the beginning, then all the mods started coming out for [GR]... After all the mods were out, it started to become a great game.

That's what someone just told me in a PM. If the game isn't good out of the box, then it never will be... BS... [GR] wasn't great in the beginning... Guess what? I see history repeating itself by all accounts of all of you...

It took mods for [GR] to be great, right??????????????

My gawd... Sometimes, people only see the end of their noses instead of the bigger picture... [GR] is the end of your Nose, and to see past that, you will see GR:AW with Mods to make it great too.

Where am I failing to see the truth in this? AM I WRONG? Was [GR] totally freaking utterly awesome out of the box??????????? Was it absolutely the game you were hoping for it to be out of the box?

Geezus people... Once you start seeing what you once saw, you will never see what you have in front of you... GR:AW is on the same exact path as [GR], and until you realize that, then you will always be the people who can't see past the end of their noses.

Now, I will probably get my hands slapped for this post... But... I cannot let this freaking continue any longer.

If you still do not like the game after the next patch, then... By all means... Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya on the way out.

If you absolutely DO NOT like what I said here, PM me.

[LT.INSTG8R]

No Angel [GR] was not complete out of the box(what is these days?) BUT GRAW cannot be modded at this point to anything close( I am speaking of Co-op)

You cannot use mission based objectives in FF or Recon so you are stuck with just hunting AI with more than 4 people. Had you read ZA's original statement regarding the simple .xml change that was to allow more than 4 people in the regular Co-op this is also not possible(tho we can go WAY back before release and find Bo stating this was to be easily done)

So here we are back at the beginning.

[GR] was a great game without mods and had the ability to do all of these things WITHOUT mods(okay technically this was after Desert Seige BUT that was also well within the time frame that this game has had)All maps were compatible with all modes you just picked the one you wanted and chose the mode you wanted to play it in.No modding necessary.

Go read some of the modders posts and the frustrations they are going thru TRYING to make things closer/better, they cant, nor have they been given the tools to do so.

Not too mention the fact that its already falling on the communities shoulders to salvage whats left before its even "finished" with basically bubblegum and string.

[ToW-Angel]

GR:AW is still on the same path of [GR], right?

[mordred]

@ taw angel: [GR] WAS great from the beginning, u obviously never played it when it was released. Even the fricking demo was great, good support nice misisons 9mmeber tem, direct ip connect. Guns and maps and misisons came along with the mods , but the fundaments were already there and they were solid.............graw aint

@Zero : no probs man its just a shame to see the coop community crumble to pieces, and for us (omega ops) we will be looking into Armed Assault as soon as possible and we will be holding our yearly tourney in there if that future is bright............

cu than

-M-

[KEVMAN68]

If you want [GR], mod the hell out of the freaking GR:AW to be [GR]... OH WAIT... That's what they did to [GR] to make it a great game, RIGHT? OH WAIT... Guess what? YOU CAN DO THE SAME FREAKING THING WITH GR:AW! OH HOLY HELL! What a freaking brilliant idea! **LIGHT BULB TURNED ON YET?**

YOU CAN MOD GR:AW LIKE YOU DID [GR].

I read through these forums several times... [GR] was never great in the beginning, then all the mods started coming out for [GR]... After all the mods were out, it started to become a great game.

That's what someone just told me in a PM. If the game isn't good out of the box, then it never will be... BS... [GR] wasn't great in the beginning... Guess what? I see history repeating itself by all accounts of all of you...

It took mods for [GR] to be great, right??????????????

My gawd... Sometimes, people only see the end of their noses instead of the bigger picture... [GR] is the end of your Nose, and to see past that, you will see GR:AW with Mods to make it great too.

Where am I failing to see the truth in this? AM I WRONG? Was [GR] totally freaking utterly awesome out of the box??????????? Was it absolutely the game you were hoping for it to be out of the box?

Geezus people... Once you start seeing what you once saw, you will never see what you have in front of you... GR:AW is on the same exact path as [GR], and until you realize that, then you will always be the people who can't see past the end of their noses.

Now, I will probably get my hands slapped for this post... But... I cannot let this freaking continue any longer.

If you still do not like the game after the next patch, then... By all means... Don't let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya on the way out.

If you absolutely DO NOT like what I said here, PM me.

I did not say [GR] wasn't good out of the box & you can use my PM to quote what I did say. [GR] ROCKED out of the box & mods kept it & are still keeping it going. Some of these mods were complete camagns & totally new maps made by very tallented modders. Not that you would understand because....OH Yeah....YOU PLAYED THE DEMO. I'm just trying to get you to understand that the DEMO doesn't let you understand the HARDCORE GR player. Don't comment on what you don't understand.

No Angel [GR] was not complete out of the box(what is these days?) BUT GRAW cannot be modded at this point to anything close( I am speaking of Co-op)

You cannot use mission based objectives in FF or Recon so you are stuck with just hunting AI with more than 4 people. Had you read ZA's original statement regarding the simple .xml change that was to allow more than 4 people in the regular Co-op this is also not possible(tho we can go WAY back before release and find Bo stating this was to be easily done)

So here we are back at the beginning.

[GR] was a great game without mods and had the ability to do all of these things WITHOUT mods(okay technically this was after Desert Seige BUT that was also well within the time frame that this game has had)All maps were compatible with all modes you just picked the one you wanted and chose the mode you wanted to play it in.No modding necessary.

Go read some of the modders posts and the frustrations they are going thru TRYING to make things closer/better, they cant, nor have they been given the tools to do so.

Not too mention the fact that its already falling on the communities shoulders to salvage whats left before its even "finished" with basically bubblegum and string.

THANK YOU! whew

[Fletch]

When this new patch is released those of us from the team I belong to will test it. If as ZA says it is the 20+ people who held off buying this game because of what those of us who did buy, told them it was not the Co-Op as we want it, will not buy this game.

If the game is as TowAngel says we are still going to have a hard time getting them to buy the game because of all the bad PR.

[LT.INSTG8R]

You know the more I think about it the more that supposed simple .xml tweak would have really solved the issues, now that the TL dying issue has been sorted. If we could plug 12 players(heck even 8) this game "could" have real Co-op and the game could be a worthy successor to [GR] and would have given the freedom to the modders to continue to build on and create Mission based Co-ops that we all know and love.

[viiiper]

No Angel [GR] was not complete out of the box(what is these days?) BUT GRAW cannot be modded at this point to anything close( I am speaking of Co-op)

You cannot use mission based objectives in FF or Recon so you are stuck with just hunting AI with more than 4 people. Had you read ZA's original statement regarding the simple .xml change that was to allow more than 4 people in the regular Co-op this is also not possible(tho we can go WAY back before release and find Bo stating this was to be easily done)

So here we are back at the beginning.

[GR] was a great game without mods and had the ability to do all of these things WITHOUT mods(okay technically this was after Desert Seige BUT that was also well within the time frame that this game has had)All maps were compatible with all modes you just picked the one you wanted and chose the mode you wanted to play it in.No modding necessary.

Go read some of the modders posts and the frustrations they are going thru TRYING to make things closer/better, they cant, nor have they been given the tools to do so.

Not too mention the fact that its already falling on the communities shoulders to salvage whats left before its even "finished" with basically bubblegum and string.

WRONG !

[Dai-San]

Zero, you have nothing to apologise for, you were given information (from the horses mouth) that was false, plain and simple. As our representatives you were honour bound to pass on said information which you and Colin did to everyones delight.

It was purely my own cynicism (25+ years in the computer/software industry) that lead me to doubt the Co-op claims once the beta came out.

Unfortunately I was right (believe me you have no idea how much I wish it was the other way around too).

My main feeling (as I explained on the phone) is not the disappointment at not having the 'Next Generation' Ghost Recon game, but anger at being lied too on so many occassions.

I am a great believer in the ethos that if you don't know something err on the side of caution. Don't just agree with people to make them happy. Example "More than 4 players in Mission based Co-op?"...."Yeah, no problem, easy"

From the evidence I have seen GRIN have NEVER played [GR] Co-op as WE the GR community play it. (Now i'm NOT going to explain [GR] Co-op to people again, I have done this in several posts and am SICK of doing it but I honestly do believe the likes of TOW-Angel need to find the posts and read em cos her version of Co-op and ours are way different). For the record 4 players in mission based co-op is of NO use to us.

It is a shame on many fronts. Many teams have been in stasis awaiting this magic Co-op GR:AW to appear and have been let down bigtime. Hopefully they can pick up the pieces and return to [GR] with the members they have or move on to another game.

Others have already accepted GR:AW for what it is and still enjoy [GR] with very active servers and a good range of people playing. (Seeya there Buehgler )

Tbh i'm just going over old ground here and just wanted to reaffirm, in public. Not your fault Zero and Colin, you ran with what you were given.

[LT.INSTG8R]

No Angel [GR] was not complete out of the box(what is these days?) BUT GRAW cannot be modded at this point to anything close( I am speaking of Co-op)

You cannot use mission based objectives in FF or Recon so you are stuck with just hunting AI with more than 4 people. Had you read ZA's original statement regarding the simple .xml change that was to allow more than 4 people in the regular Co-op this is also not possible(tho we can go WAY back before release and find Bo stating this was to be easily done)

So here we are back at the beginning.

[GR] was a great game without mods and had the ability to do all of these things WITHOUT mods(okay technically this was after Desert Seige BUT that was also well within the time frame that this game has had)All maps were compatible with all modes you just picked the one you wanted and chose the mode you wanted to play it in.No modding necessary.

Go read some of the modders posts and the frustrations they are going thru TRYING to make things closer/better, they cant, nor have they been given the tools to do so.

Not too mention the fact that its already falling on the communities shoulders to salvage whats left before its even "finished" with basically bubblegum and string.

WRONG !

Care to elaborate??......

[sui317]

although i feel the sadness and dissapointment i do believe there is still hope

the 4 man coop simple xml edit might not be that simple but with dedication from modders and hopefully devs this might not be impossible

i personally feel nothing for dropping graw, guess i am hooked or just don't see alternatives i might like

i am willing to wait and hope that in the future there will be a solution, hopefully it will be in an expansion or a great mod

i can not believe the impossible, like when graw came out

everyone was sad and mad about the bundle file and the lack of getting to the core of the game

while with some help from a programmer it was less than an half hour to reach in to the game and retrive the skins

maybe this is not true for the coop part, but i guess i will have to ask ZAZ to help with that if everyone is hanging their heads down and defeated

i ask grin and every one to hang in there or keep their heads cool, and work together to make this a great coop game

my condolences for every one who feel this ain't going to work

(i myself never played coop with more than 4, but since the beta testing i can see what for you is [GR] coop)

Edited September 12, 2006 by sui317

[Fletch]

If they had not put Ghost Recon in the title and just went with Advance Warfighter or whatever they would not be all these bad feelings. Cause compared to every game I have bought recently this game is great, its just not Ghost Recon.

[DiGiTALY -TC-]

If they had not put Ghost Recon in the title and just went with Advance Warfighter or whatever they would not be all these bad feelings. Cause compared to every game I have bought recently this game is great, its just not Ghost Recon.

but [GR] wasn't only a coop game... it was also a TVT game and with the improvements in MP3 it deserve to be ghost recon because it's everything we [GR] TVT players wished for.. so how should have they call it? Ghost Recon but just for team vs team: Advanced Warfighter?

[sui317]

If they had not put Ghost Recon in the title and just went with Advance Warfighter or whatever they would not be all these bad feelings. Cause compared to every game I have bought recently this game is great, its just not Ghost Recon.

that is just it, it is not ghost recon that game was done 6 years ago

and went on to become a great game,

but for all the other non pc gamers this is ghost recon because it followed the path ubi has chosen for this game

and they are used to it, grin could not have said we want to delete ghost recon from GRAW

that is not up to them, and we pc gamers might have known this would happen if we showed more intrest in the GR game series on other platforms than just our pc, then we knew what was to happen

when i see the support grin gives in this forum i know they try the best they can

but some things might be hard to do within the rules layed down to them by ubi

or the desires from the people here, or the combination of both

i myself feel the ghost recon in graw, but i never played ladders and tournies

so that i might miss, maybe you all feel totally different,

then think about those who had to interperupt our feelings to create a suitable graw

with the guidelines from ubi,

our simple wishes and demands complaints and all whining does not make things easy

lies and misunderstandings, i think there is a lot just in our heads (no disrespect)

[Kurtz]

The obstacles to old style coop were the mission leader issue (supposedly solved), SADS ( supposedly included) and 4 man coop. What is the status of the last issue, can you or not increase the number of team members? This is a major issue for coop clans.

[}PW{ Postal]

No Angel [GR] was not complete out of the box(what is these days?) BUT GRAW cannot be modded at this point to anything close( I am speaking of Co-op)

You cannot use mission based objectives in FF or Recon so you are stuck with just hunting AI with more than 4 people. Had you read ZA's original statement regarding the simple .xml change that was to allow more than 4 people in the regular Co-op this is also not possible(tho we can go WAY back before release and find Bo stating this was to be easily done)

So here we are back at the beginning.

[GR] was a great game without mods and had the ability to do all of these things WITHOUT mods(okay technically this was after Desert Seige BUT that was also well within the time frame that this game has had)All maps were compatible with all modes you just picked the one you wanted and chose the mode you wanted to play it in.No modding necessary.

Go read some of the modders posts and the frustrations they are going thru TRYING to make things closer/better, they cant, nor have they been given the tools to do so.

Not too mention the fact that its already falling on the communities shoulders to salvage whats left before its even "finished" with basically bubblegum and string.

WRONG !

Care to elaborate??......

Someone good at scripting could more than likly pull off what you want. I cant script for crap but have created a few basic missions with this Beta.

[Cangaroo.TNT]

The obstacles to old style coop were the mission leader issue (supposedly solved), SADS ( supposedly included) and 4 man coop. What is the status of the last issue, can you or not increase the number of team members? This is a major issue for coop clans.

Apparently not in mission based coop. However, FF & [GR] are up to 12.

There seems to be some disagreement as to whether or not objectives can be added to FF & [GR] maps. IMHO, I think the original SP missions would be too easy with more than 6 people playing, so I don't see that as a tremendous loss. If you can create more complex/difficult objective based coops that require & allow for > 4 people, then I don't see where the problem is (AS IT RELATES TO # OF PEOPLE).

[Dai-San]

The obstacles to old style coop were the mission leader issue (supposedly solved), SADS ( supposedly included) and 4 man coop. What is the status of the last issue, can you or not increase the number of team members? This is a major issue for coop clans.

Co-op Firefight mode has increased player numbers from 4.

Co-op Recon mode has increased player numbers from 4.

Co-op Mission mode is still stuck at 4 unfortunately.

This last one is the real killer for [GR] Co-op players as we wanted at least the [GR] number of 9 (preferably more) for good old Co-op tournament play ala Stealth Recon etc.

Edited September 12, 2006 by Dai-San

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Co-op Mission mode is still stuck at 4 unfortunately.

This last one is the real killer for [GR] Co-op players as we wanted at least the [GR] number of 9 (preferably more) for good old Co-op tournament play ala Stealth Recon etc.

I don't get it (nothing new there)! You [GR] guys are talking about coop with the original SP objective-based missions, correct? IF SO, am I the only one that thinks the original SP missions would be too easy with > 6 (really, 4 is sufficient) people? A while back didn't people post in these forums how they defeated every coop mission using pistols only?

If objective based coop missions can be created (Recon w/ objectives) that allow for >4 people, isn't THAT problem solved?

[BoGRIN]

Buhuuu

I guess we have to hold your hand through how to do this then. - besides ZeroAlpha you are bitching about files you do not have access to yet. Odd.

But now that ZeroAlpha feed the trolls I guess we need to do it a bit different.

Oh and ZeroAlpha - you'll be a target not a friend in the upcoming stuff from us (kidding of course)

In the meantime enjoy the other modes and enhancements the new patch offers.

Oh and trolls... we love you too.

Bo

[devilhimself]

Buhuuu

In the meantime enjoy the other modes and enhancements the new patch offers.

Now I don't know what to believe...

GR:AW, buy it young. You might live to see it finished.

Edited September 12, 2006 by devilhimself

[sui317]

you can believe every one but no one has got your truth

[Cangaroo.TNT]

Wow, ever since Bo posted this thread went right down the crapper LOL!

[Bonehead]

Boy this thread went downhill quickly LOL

Dunno how you guys at GRIN handle posts like that, kudos for your patience!