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So Srry to all of the COOP players out there


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For those that don’t know who I am, I, along with Colin, represented GRNET at the UK press release of GRAW

I would like to take this opportunity to say a big sorry to the COOP community. I feel that I have been inadvertently used as a bringer of false promises regarding on line coop play and future tournies.

Who used me? The painful answer is BO.

I do not intend to speculate as to BO’s intentions or motivation but the bottom line here is that information given to me led me to believe that we, as COOP gamers would get what we need to move on to a next generation of GR COOP.

It is my personal opinion that GRAW will never provide the COOP community with an off the shelf package that will ever see another COOP tournament that we all know and love.

Modders will no doubt try to find a way and good luck to them.

This could so have been the future but unfortunately GRAW was never written to be played in the COOP mode as we understand it.

For those DIEHARD coop fans awaiting the upcoming [GR] mode let me take responsibility for my previous posts and warn you all that its fools gold at the end of a petrol stained puddle, not a rainbow!

PS Dai, you where right, I was wrong. I so wish it was the other way round as we would both be happy :wall:

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Zeroalpha,

It is seldom that we in the community see this type of post, and perhaps that is where the problem is. I appreciate the fact that you felt compelled to share with us because it has been a difficult journey for all of us from the cancellation of GR2 to this point. I appreciate your candor and courage to share this information with us. It's too bad there isn't more of this type of candid communication between the owners, devs and gamers. I only hope that the problems and frustrations with getting Graw to final release don't doom GR-4. Thanks again.

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I wouldn't be surprised if GR4 is already doomed. But that's an orange of another color...

Agreed with the above for your candor and sense of tact (mostly) in pointing out your feelings on the issue. For the most part, I agree with your point on COOP's future. It'll be the horse that dies and goes to hell and is still repeatedly beaten once MP pack #3 is out in the public's hands. The one thing that never got addressed. Though I think the rest of the game is GREAT, I agree that the one issue there is still lacking.

Armed Assault isn't going to provide an answer (looks like a BF2 clone), Splinter Cell:Double Agent isn't of a COOP-friendly genre (and will prolly get all Ubi'd up anyhow), and so it looks like Crysis will be the buzz word for COOP gamers for a while until more info comes out on it and we see if it will or will not support COOP missions.

I don't know what was meant specifically by the comment on Bo, and don't particularly care to either. Probably not appropriate to drag that in here beyond what's already been said. Your disappointment is well noted, and will be boldly underscored once MP#3 is out.

Best of luck in whatever comes next for you, and thanks for keeping it respectable...

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ZeroAlpha, it's a real shame that things have got to this point for you.

I think your post, and what you are feeling is felt by a large community of Co-Op people who are coming to realise that you can only say "wow" to GR:AW on the back of promises for so long, and that there is a cut-off point. For you it has been reached, and that is not a good thing.

For me, I knew GR:AW was in trouble when we got the following statement....

"The built-in missions offers a challenge and an urban gameplay experience adapted to 4 players, inherently different from the first Ghost Recon. GR:AW stands on it's own and follows a different path from GR1, by now that's something everyone is aware of."

This was the point where I went "uh-oh!"

I tried GR:AW, and tried GR:AW again but this is a game which should not have the name "Ghost Recon" associated with it.

Such a damn, damn shame to see posts like this.... not a good day in GR land :(

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No hard feelings Zeroalpha, you and Colin were just doing what seemed correct. We are still having a blast playing GR, and you are as welcome as Dai to stop by and play some coop with the Alpha Squad members and regulars whenever you want.

I made a bit of progress with GRAW over the weekend, but a cold and the lure of playing coop GR stalled me. Even if I had not been distracted, I think your assessment that GRAW will never support a coop tourney remains correct. There are just too many obstacles I can see to pulling one off. :(

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Zeroalpha;

Glad to see some folks can speak thier minds. hope this thread doesn't bring on the pro-GRAW lynch mobs. One thing that MUST be made known to others is, Rocky here runs the show and as long as I have been coming here, he has allowed people free speech within certain moral means.

With what Zeroalpha has said, where does this leave GRAW? now knowing we are expecting a sequel GR4, where does that leave us now as well? I don't think I will continue to make my map for GRAW as this modding thing requires WAY too much techinal knowledge which, I'm sad to admit, requires me to give time to map making that I just don't have anymore.

After tomorrow, I don't see what my future holds in making mods for any game but, As for GRAW I think we ALL need to stand back and see just what Zeroalpha is saying. He represented us, and relayed info to us or what he was allowed to. He took his own personal convictions and stood up and told us what alot of people have been saying all along about GRAW. I won't worry about the details of what Zeroalpha mentioned about BO, that's something between Bo and Zeroalpha. but based on what he has said, it stands as a monument to what the negativity has said all along.

Zeroalpha..I thank you for your candor and great character

Added; edited for misspellings

Edited by Papa6
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zeroalpha: I felt sad reading your post :'( -- sad for you over what you've been put through, and also sad for the disappointment the co-op'ers who've hung on are certain to feel. Kudos to you for your honesty & especially for the dignified & respectful way you wrote your post, despite the circumstances.

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All I will say is that I know the feeling... So, you have my empathy.

But, regarding the next patch, even the old [GR]'ers will be pleasantly pleased. It may not be exactly what you were hoping for, but I'm pretty sure it's as close to [GR] Co-Op as you can get without remaking [GR].

I'm a major Co-Op'er myself, and with the next patch release, you will also realize that for yourself that it encompasses what most of the old [GR]'ers have been wanting. But, remember it won't be exactly the same thing, so do not get you hopes up for it to be exactly the same as [GR].

While I empathize with ZA, I do understand that nothing is ever exactly alike... No matter what.

With that said... I hope to still see you all playing soon!

Angel

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All I will say is that I know the feeling... So, you have my empathy.

But, regarding the next patch, even the old [GR]'ers will be pleasantly pleased. It may not be exactly what you were hoping for, but I'm pretty sure it's as close to [GR] Co-Op as you can get without remaking [GR].

I'm a major Co-Op'er myself, and with the next patch release, you will also realize that for yourself that it encompasses what most of the old [GR]'ers have been wanting. But, remember it won't be exactly the same thing, so do not get you hopes up for it to be exactly the same as [GR].

While I empathize with ZA, I do understand that nothing is ever exactly alike... No matter what.

With that said... I hope to still see you all playing soon!

Angel

Hey angel, i don't think it's the content of GRAW per se' rather what he was told by BO Grin(according to Zeroalpha's post above) about COOP support. If Bo did in fact say what Zeroalpha said he said <_< (i need writing skills "said he said?") then why was he told that stuff?

hmm. I don't think I want to go there.... 0:)

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All I will say is that I know the feeling... So, you have my empathy.

But, regarding the next patch, even the old [GR]'ers will be pleasantly pleased. It may not be exactly what you were hoping for, but I'm pretty sure it's as close to [GR] Co-Op as you can get without remaking [GR].

I'm a major Co-Op'er myself, and with the next patch release, you will also realize that for yourself that it encompasses what most of the old [GR]'ers have been wanting. But, remember it won't be exactly the same thing, so do not get you hopes up for it to be exactly the same as [GR].

While I empathize with ZA, I do understand that nothing is ever exactly alike... No matter what.

With that said... I hope to still see you all playing soon!

We were told a simple .xml change would be enough for more than 4 to play coop missions. Missions are the bread and butter of cooperative Ghost Recon, and no I don't mean just GR1, I mean the whole series/franchise. As it stands right now that "simple" .xml change does not exist, and GR:AW does not support, and probably never will support, the same style of cooperative play as its RSE cousins.

When ZA told me on TS that we should be good to go, a simple file change and all woud be well, I was very happy. When the game shipped and there was no such thing to change, I waited for a patch thinking it would appear. Now here we are months later, awaiting the "final map pack" and all that we have on the horizon are what I consider the side dishes. This has nothing to do with myself and others wanting things to be exactly the same as the predessor, it has to due with being told one thing and reality being another. That reality is something ZA should not have to apologize for, he wasn't the source of the information.

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I understand you're angry kevman, but no need to swear mate. From what Zeroalpha says, if it is true then, I'm done as well.

Gaming used to be exciting. publishers abound, games coming out of our ears. but with the rubbish coming out these days it's like picking up a hooker..."you pay your money, you take your chances." <_<

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Angel Angel dear Angel...

I admire your dedication for GRAW...

Im wondering what is motivation tough..

When uyoure talkin about [GR] you touch me personally there. :(

Maybe because you werent ''there'' before..

As im concerned, They told me lies...

I dunno if youre a betatester for mappack3...but if u are,

(and even if you're not) im wondering

how u can compare GR coop when u have never played the dam thing..

I've been fooled..im not whining...

I just cant get it out of my mind..

Ghost Recon..

They just used the name..

All the great expectations we had...

What a great concept it was.

Big deal GRIN is posting in this forum..

so what..This game is over..

For me it is...

Im sorry for all Coop people outthere...

We've been told lies..

Its the same BS we've been told before..

''Each patch is an improvement.''

If this patch is the REAL final patch well I still feel ripped off.

And im sorry for all the people who got ''involved'' since the drop of GR2..

I dont care what will happened now.

Oh ill maybe play sometimes fer sure.

Check out new mods...

But it surely doesnt worth 80$ CAN.

Its a shame.

Tell me somethin..

Do you people who post on this forum still think they had any kind of influence

in the development of GRAW?

Thats what hurts me most..

We all need dreams I guess. :D

The end is near..Theres nothin to do.

ANd its over fer me.

Finally.

.Long Live Ghosts.

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I have to apologize about my blow up & language but I went from high (reading about MP3 finnaly coming out in a few days to this post & someone finnaly coming out with the truth about COOP. I regret any offence taken but I stick by my meaning of the post. I will never buy another GR if my time will be sitting in here waiting for patches instead of playing & enjoying. The only reason i ever came to GR.net before was for mods & I never posted about GR1......I was too busy playing from Day 1. I bought this game the day it came out & I still have played GR1 more since then. Sorry but this sucks. I was wondering what I will do when & IF GR4 comes out on PC (doubt it). I won't be the first in line for it like I was on GRAW. I'll wait & come to these forums to see if it is worth it. I think the second version of something should incorparate everything from the first & then be much better. Like I have posted before.....I loved GRAW SP. I didn't like the month of trying to stop it from crashing on my NEW 256 PCI express video card. (thanx again noquarter for the help) but then I beat the game in 2 days & went to MP to find this mess. I am frustrated & am truly sorry to offend. I'll get my MP3 patch & if I'm not happy I'll move on. sorry to hear the Coop modders are tired too. Enjoyed your work. As for the run & gunners... Enjoy GRAW MP. Sorry TOW ANGEL but sometimes you should let a guy rant in peace. Some ranters want to rant without an excuse not to. Sorry bro.

I understand you're angry kevman, but no need to swear mate. From what Zeroalpha says, if it is true then, I'm done as well.

Gaming used to be exciting. publishers abound, games coming out of our ears. but with the rubbish coming out these days it's like picking up a hooker..."you pay your money, you take your chances." <_<

sorry papa...didn't mean to offend. I'm just a [GR] man in a GRAW world. At least GRAW didn't give us the CLAP. Lost a year off my heart though.

Edited by KEVMAN68
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Not going to touch the topic directly, but for co-op players, keep an eye on the next version of America's Army that's due to be released soon. 2.7 is bringing in AI and co-op play. It already has dedicated servers and is highly configurable.

The problem, of course aside from it being on an older engine (ut2k4) is that there will only be two co-op missions added and we cannot create more for the game, but still, it's free so you've nothing lost but time in trying it.

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I may not have had the full version of the game, but I have played the Demo version, which is enough to give me the understanding of what everyone was talking about.

I am in fact a beta tester for the latest patch that GRiN is about to release, and I can tell you that you will in fact get what you have been asking for in regards to Co-Ops.

I am a big time Co-Op'er from the previous game my squad and I played... I definitely know what a good Co-Op is compared to a half-###### co-op... And I can tell you right now the Co-Op that you all are getting in the next patch will rock.

I understand and appreciate the frustration... Being told this and that, and not knowing truly which to believe. Now, I'm not saying that Bo is Right and vice-versa for ZA... I'm not saying that in the least that either is right or wrong, but what I am saying is that you will be getting what you've been asking for.

After this next patch, if you still aren't satisfied, I'll understand why. But... To cut-bait now and run off before you had a chance to checkout the next patch? I'd say that is a cop-out.

Give this next patch the last chance for GR:AW for yourself.

Trust me when I say that I understand the frustration... I'm probably the most patient person that you will come across...

My experience with PC Games has been the last 4 years, most of that I was playing Joint Operations from NovaLogic... You should try that game's Co-Op mode... It sucks... AI's are very unrealistic in everyway... They can see through trees, rocks, terrain, vehicles, buildings and everything else.

Now, I can compare [GR], GR:AW and Joint Operations... I can definitely tell you that you will get most of what you've asked for in the terms of Co-Ops.

Have patience for one more week, that's all I ask.

What's my motivation someone asked... My motivation is this community that I see is very sad about the way things are currently... Sad is only getting 3 patches for a game in 3 years, and not getting what we had asked for... That's NovaLogic. Their devs never visit their forums, never talk to their community, always hiding behind an NDA... I can tell you right now that GRiN is the daylight, and NovaLogic is in the darkest of dark ages when it comes to games.

Just be thankful for what you have at the moment, and you can guarantee that things will be as they have said and what you've asked for.

Again, I understand the frustration you all are feeling... I've been there for 3 years+. Now I have a game that I truly and honestly enjoy and I suspect that I will be around for a long time.

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I may not have had the full version of the game, but I have played the Demo version, which is enough to give me the understanding of what everyone was talking about.

Are you talking about the DEMO OF [GR]? IF so you are clueless as to what I am feeling about GRAW. Have you ever played HX5, DA49, Frostbite to name a few Mods from [GR]? No CLUE my friend. GET [GR].....Download these mods & play them. This really makes me laugh that you come in here telling hardcore [GR] COOP people how to feel when you haven't even experienced it. The DEMO is enough for U to understand ME? Youv'e got to be kidding. :rofl:

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