GL popping sound...

[th33f.]

i kept thinking the sound that the M203 makes can be heard by people around you, and that i just wasn't close enough when someone fires a nade right next to me. today i realized i have never heard the pop coming from somebody else. it's more of a 'swoosh" in GRAW, but it seems to be inaudible to other players.

is this by design? one would think it should exceed the volume of a reload sound, no? the GL's of 2013 might become a lot queiter, but they would still be far from silent?

i noticed this "flaw" when i ran into two opponents today, and both of them are looking the wrong way... i frag the first one, the one that was a bit further. while the second guy is still looking to the side, i reload the GL, and that's when he started looking for where the sound came from. too late for him though. and since it was close to the end of a 1x respawn game, they never came back for revenge and i stayed completely stealth to the rest of their team. just seemed a little unfair how the heaviest round of firepower is also the quietest...

the same applies to the sound effects triggered by switching to scope, swapping weapons or using the firemode switch. they're inaudible to everyone but you. unless i need to be alarmingly close to the guy to hear it?

EDIT: yes, there's a great visual representation of the nade trajectory, but chances are you're gonna miss it, because of the narrow field of view...

Edited August 17, 2006 by th33f.

[Haz4rd]

Its true that sound is randomly heardable. Sometimes it can be heard without problems if some one else is launching nades, most times I cant hear a thing.

Some people also think supressed rifles are silent, but I have no difficulties to hear supressed wpn from 100m. Thats the way it should be, so its not a complaining.

What I would like to hear is frag nades bounching in concrete or asfalt what ever. Seems those are made of rubber or something, they get stuck to places and makes no noise at all. If you dont see nade coming, ur history, but if there were some sound, most times theres second or more to go around that 0.75mm metalplatefence and survive.

[th33f.]

oh the hand frags make a sound every time they land on something hard i think. it's a low rolling sound. when one lands around me, the rest of the game sounds suddenly get faded like 75% and i can hear the roll clearly. there is no metal impact sound however, which is odd.

it's really ironic that a next-gen physics enhanced game has trouble handling frag throwing. if you try to bounce one off of something, it's like trying to bounce a pie. the throw strength system could use some improvement too, because when you're experiencing FPS lag due to excessive server traffic in certain spots, your keystrokes/clicks and their duration are being entered at a slower rate, so you often end up underpowering your throws, often resulting in fatal accidents. accidentally rolling the frag instead of a throw is a common occurance as well. the switch is flawed. if i'm standing on high ground and trying to perform a full strength throw pointed almost verically down - i often end up dropping it right next to myself.

[GRiN_desmond22]

Grenades make one type of sound when they land after being thrown, and another sound when they're rolled across the ground (equip grenades, tilt camera down - the ret changes to indicate that you roll the grenade instead of throw it - and press fire).

In addition, these two types of grenade-to-surface sounds come in many different version depending on what material the grenade connects with: broken glass, plank, metal, catwalk, water, dirt/sand, grass, gravel, stone, iron and asphalt. The fallof of a grenade's impact sound makes it reach zero (complete silence) at 60 meters, so you should hear clearly whenever one lands close to you.

Screw-on silencers do indeed little to surpress the sound (they sound way cooler though!)- as in real life they're mainly to cut down on the muzzle flash as to not give away your position visually. For the sake of tactical elements in the gameplay, I have made the silencer make a difference for a weapon's falloff: In GRAW, the falloff distance of regular non-silenced rifles are 200 meters (meaning the sound drops in strenght so that if stannding 200m or more from the sound source you can't hear it anymore). However with screw-on silencers the falloff is immediately cut in half (100m), so Haz4rd can't possibly "have no difficulties to hear supressed wpn from 100m" as he puts it. If so, he is way closer than 100m, or it is in fact not a silenced weapon he is hearing.

The MP5-sd however, is built to be silent (the silencer is not a screw-on) so that weapon is by far the most silent weapon in the game. When firing, it's quite simply the mechanism that is audible (no "bang"). This would in combination with low falloff value be a way too silent weapon (to superior to other weapons) so I had to in fact increase the falloff value a tad bit in relation to other rifles with screw-on silencers (MP5-sd falloff value is 110m).

GL falloff is as with the regular rifle firing sound 200m and should be clearly audible up till at least 100 meters. If you think you have found a bug that it is in fact possible to recreate, then PM me.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

oh the hand frags make a sound every time they land on something hard i think. it's a low rolling sound. when one lands around me, the rest of the game sounds suddenly get faded like 75% and i can hear the roll clearly. there is no metal impact sound however, which is odd.

it's really ironic that a next-gen physics enhanced game has trouble handling frag throwing. if you try to bounce one off of something, it's like trying to bounce a pie. the throw strength system could use some improvement too, because when you're experiencing FPS lag due to excessive server traffic in certain spots, your keystrokes/clicks and their duration are being entered at a slower rate, so you often end up underpowering your throws, often resulting in fatal accidents. accidentally rolling the frag instead of a throw is a common occurance as well. the switch is flawed. if i'm standing on high ground and trying to perform a full strength throw pointed almost verically down - i often end up dropping it right next to myself.

Crouch when throwing nades and don't loook at them when looking down. As you press your nade button aim up a little.

It's not flawed, it's the only way to do it unless you want another key (too many already lol)

The slowness you see is usually on warehouses at least 2 rounds in. It's not the traffic, it's usually to much physics.

To deminstrate, blow up all the tanks at the left spawn and the ones in the warehouse. Then try throwing nades.

You will note also when going into warehouses, Server load time is longer. Same with next map after (i say going out of)

It's not load time as i have watched the server. It's something with the synching and the clients loading in. It takes longer anywhere from 8players up, where no other maps are effected like that for loading.

Good post desmond22.

I think with the hand frags most people don't hear them because the sound of them is way less then the battle around them, or the person is throwing from far enough away that it explodes before it hits the ground.

[zulater]

it would be awesome to hear that supersonic crack of the round as it flies past you. that would be cooler than anything else.

[GRiN_desmond22]

Bullets already do that. You mean you can't hear it on your computer?

[ROCO*AFZ*]

it would be awesome to hear that supersonic crack of the round as it flies past you. that would be cooler than anything else.

I hear it. Sometimes wind and such though or the richochets of the bullets mask it.

That was one of the 1st things with the new patch me and Peace noticed.

It's not quite a crack but you can definately here them go by you.

[th33f.]

huh, i need to stop using onboard sound. i guess i should try increasing the max number of voices in the sound_settings.xml, since i can't select high quality mode from within the game. as long as these things work for everyone else. i'm upgrading soon.

Edited August 17, 2006 by th33f.

[}PW{ Postal]

Yeah man...I use to use on board sound ( about a month ago ) Then i broke down and bought an X-FI card and man what a difference.

[zulater]

Bullets already do that. You mean you can't hear it on your computer?

I hear the 'woosh' but that's hardly what a bullet would sound like unless it was subsonic.

video only for easy reference from the following links

http://zulater.net/bullet_snap.html

There is an audible difference in the sound of the gun firing and the sound of the round passing nearby. the round passing nearby almost sounds like firecrackers.

references.

http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical.html

as posted here http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=37773

specifically check out page 3 http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical3.html

scroll down to section X "Future Stuff"

There has not been a single game, ever, that has come anywhere close to representing the sound that a supersonic bullet makes when flying past. Watch a bit of this video, and you'll notice all kinds of popping and snapping sounds the likes of which you've never experienced in a game before.

The snapping noises are created by supersonic rounds passing within a certain distance of the camera. Each little snap or crack is the sonic shockwave created by the bullets, and the closer ones typically sound like a very large, sharp, and dry "CRACK!" (at least in person - it's a very difficult sound to catch on tape, but this video is the best representation I've seen of it so far).

Imagine the level of immersion that would be acheived by modeling thesee sounds properly. No longer would players have a lame "whoooosh" to signify that a bullet just passed close - instead, they'd likely jump out of their seat upon hearing a CRACK just inches from their character's head as a sniper's bullet barely misses them. Or, even better, they'd have a CRACKCRACKCRACKCRACK each time a burst of machinegun fire passed too close.

If modeled such that supersonic and sub-sonic bullets have proper audio signatures, the difference between sub- and supersonic rounds would be even more pronounced for the purposes of stealth. A suppressed weapon firing a supersonic round will have the muzzle blast muffled, whereas the CRACK of the round passing near anything in the line of fire will still be heard. Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

To give an example of how loud this supersonic crack can be, during USMC rifle qualifications half of the shooters are sent to the "pits" to pull targets (bring them down, mark where the person hit, send them up). There's a berm protecting you from stray rounds, and at that distance the sound of everyone shooting up above (from 200, 300, and 500 meters) is very muffled - if you've ever heard gunfire from a good distance, that's what it sounded like, except more subdued. Anyhow, the ONLY sound you can hear from the pits that's of any substantial volume is the sound of the supersonic 5.56mm rounds passing overhead. The intensity of the sound is such that it actually hurts your ears if you're not wearing earplugs. They're LOUD, no two ways about it.

This desperately needs to be modeled in future wargames.

Edited August 17, 2006 by zulater

[RAbbi_74]

And the lack of that supersonic velocity in rounds loaded specifically for suppressed weapons is one of the reasons they are so much quieter firing. Read-up in the game manuals (all but obsolete these days) for older FPS' like Rogue Spear and such, or go find any real-world resource. Some manufacturers make almost-match-grade rounds loaded with just the right primers and just enough powder to fire from a specific weapon at a muzzle velocity SLIGHTLY below the speed of sound. When the round never breaks the sound barrier, the distinct (high-pitched in relative terms, for sake of a bullet's size/shape) 'SNAP' of which we speak will not be present, and you notice how generally little sound the actual powder charge makes.

In the case of the MP5SD, as stated, the weapon is specifically designed to be the quietest firearm of its type on Earth. Not only via the silencer assembly itself, but also for some small tweaks to chamber, bolt and action design which make the motion and contact of these parts (as well as various harmonic properties) as quiet as possible. Some engineer at H&K pulled every last one of his and his team's hairs, then subsequently split them in order to get this design just right...

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Bullets already do that. You mean you can't hear it on your computer?

I hear the 'woosh' but that's hardly what a bullet would sound like unless it was subsonic.

video only for easy reference from the following links

http://zulater.net/bullet_snap.html

There is an audible difference in the sound of the gun firing and the sound of the round passing nearby. the round passing nearby almost sounds like firecrackers.

references.

http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical.html

as posted here http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=37773

specifically check out page 3 http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical3.html

scroll down to section X "Future Stuff"

There has not been a single game, ever, that has come anywhere close to representing the sound that a supersonic bullet makes when flying past. Watch a bit of this video, and you'll notice all kinds of popping and snapping sounds the likes of which you've never experienced in a game before.

The snapping noises are created by supersonic rounds passing within a certain distance of the camera. Each little snap or crack is the sonic shockwave created by the bullets, and the closer ones typically sound like a very large, sharp, and dry "CRACK!" (at least in person - it's a very difficult sound to catch on tape, but this video is the best representation I've seen of it so far).

Imagine the level of immersion that would be acheived by modeling thesee sounds properly. No longer would players have a lame "whoooosh" to signify that a bullet just passed close - instead, they'd likely jump out of their seat upon hearing a CRACK just inches from their character's head as a sniper's bullet barely misses them. Or, even better, they'd have a CRACKCRACKCRACKCRACK each time a burst of machinegun fire passed too close.

If modeled such that supersonic and sub-sonic bullets have proper audio signatures, the difference between sub- and supersonic rounds would be even more pronounced for the purposes of stealth. A suppressed weapon firing a supersonic round will have the muzzle blast muffled, whereas the CRACK of the round passing near anything in the line of fire will still be heard. Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

To give an example of how loud this supersonic crack can be, during USMC rifle qualifications half of the shooters are sent to the "pits" to pull targets (bring them down, mark where the person hit, send them up). There's a berm protecting you from stray rounds, and at that distance the sound of everyone shooting up above (from 200, 300, and 500 meters) is very muffled - if you've ever heard gunfire from a good distance, that's what it sounded like, except more subdued. Anyhow, the ONLY sound you can hear from the pits that's of any substantial volume is the sound of the supersonic 5.56mm rounds passing overhead. The intensity of the sound is such that it actually hurts your ears if you're not wearing earplugs. They're LOUD, no two ways about it.

This desperately needs to be modeled in future wargames.

Read this from the same article

Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

[zulater]

You didn't even read my post did you?

and unless there is a very specalized task .223 rounds are not going to be subsonic even with a suppressor attatched.

Read this from the same article

Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

I hear the 'woosh' but that's hardly what a bullet would sound like unless it was subsonic.

[RAbbi_74]

Very true. Specialized. SPECIAL. As in Forces. Like D Company, 1st Battalion, 5th Special Forces Group. Better known as the 'Ghosts.' From whom we derive the game's namesake, "Ghost Recon." SF folks would have access to such ammo, would they deem it necessary for a certain task or situation. In this game, not only do you take control of a SF soldier, but a doggone Captain. In other words, if YOU, as CPT Mitchell decide that you need a suppressed weapon, it's understood that you cold also make the call to use the proper ammo and would have it available.

Just a thought, dude. That's all.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

You didn't even read my post did you?

and unless there is a very specalized task .223 rounds are not going to be subsonic even with a suppressor attatched.

Read this from the same article

Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

I hear the 'woosh' but that's hardly what a bullet would sound like unless it was subsonic.

Yes i did. The article

http://dslyecxi.com/bestoftactical3.html

Didn't say anything about specized .223 rounds do you see it in this (see below)

Supersonic Bullets & Making Combat Sound Authentic

There has not been a single game, ever, that has come anywhere close to representing the sound that a supersonic bullet makes when flying past. Watch a bit of this video, and you'll notice all kinds of popping and snapping sounds the likes of which you've never experienced in a game before.

The snapping noises are created by supersonic rounds passing within a certain distance of the camera. Each little snap or crack is the sonic shockwave created by the bullets, and the closer ones typically sound like a very large, sharp, and dry "CRACK!" (at least in person - it's a very difficult sound to catch on tape, but this video is the best representation I've seen of it so far).

Imagine the level of immersion that would be acheived by modeling thesee sounds properly. No longer would players have a lame "whoooosh" to signify that a bullet just passed close - instead, they'd likely jump out of their seat upon hearing a CRACK just inches from their character's head as a sniper's bullet barely misses them. Or, even better, they'd have a CRACKCRACKCRACKCRACK each time a burst of machinegun fire passed too close.

If modeled such that supersonic and sub-sonic bullets have proper audio signatures, the difference between sub- and supersonic rounds would be even more pronounced for the purposes of stealth. A suppressed weapon firing a supersonic round will have the muzzle blast muffled, whereas the CRACK of the round passing near anything in the line of fire will still be heard. Subsonic rounds being fired out of a silenced weapon, on the other hand, will "whoosh" at best and will thus make it that much harder for any targets to figure out where the fire is coming from.

To give an example of how loud this supersonic crack can be, during USMC rifle qualifications half of the shooters are sent to the "pits" to pull targets (bring them down, mark where the person hit, send them up). There's a berm protecting you from stray rounds, and at that distance the sound of everyone shooting up above (from 200, 300, and 500 meters) is very muffled - if you've ever heard gunfire from a good distance, that's what it sounded like, except more subdued. Anyhow, the ONLY sound you can hear from the pits that's of any substantial volume is the sound of the supersonic 5.56mm rounds passing overhead. The intensity of the sound is such that it actually hurts your ears if you're not wearing earplugs. They're LOUD, no two ways about it.

And.. since i did my research... here yah go...

http://www.srtarms.com/ebr.htm

A lot of ammo for sale including 5.56 that is subsonic

And look

http://www.extremeshockusa.com/cgistore/st...amp;cart_id=134

They even have some there for a 50 cal + snipers

But this is interesting...

These Guys are Ghost's so i guess they are using Subsonic ammo hence the whoosh sound. Makes sense to me. And next...

Now we know why it sometimes takes a lot of shots. Subsonic at a distance can reduce a 5.56 to about a .22 for kinetic energy given some distance.

Maybe Grin designed this whole thing correctly... and we just misplaced it as being non subsonic ammo (supersonic) that would kill with one shot?

This also explains them not having much hit jitter for taking shots. Most armor can take a .22's worth kinetic energy.

BTW in GR1 wasn't the M4 SD using subsonic ammo? i think i read that somewhere.

Maybe someone in the military can update us on this... for Recon or urban...subsonic better or not and possibly used by Ghosts?

Edited August 17, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[zulater]

They would have access to such ammo but if you are going in against a hard target with body armor the subsonic .223 would be worthless (as you noted at distance it's basically a .22lr with a copper jacket) hell i think most .22LR is supersonic anyways because you can buy subsonic .22LR. Eitherway being inserted against a rebel force that you don't know much about going with an underpowered subsonic .223 is not the brightest idea.

Still the mexian rebels more than likely will not have subsonic ammo.

And it just takes a lot of shots to kill anyone with a .223. It wasn't designed to be a one shot one kill weapon. It was designed to be humane according to the geneiva convention. Reports from marines in Iraq rotuinely state it takes multiple rounds to drop an enemy and they aren't using subsonic ammo.

Subsonic would be used when absolute stealth is needed. In graw absolute stealth is not needed, penetration and stopping power is needed to get to your intended destination since avoiding the enemy is not an option.

I'll admit i'm nitpicking graw here. the sounds really are one thing that was done very well. some volume issues exist as in footsteps being a little too loud for my tastes but the actual modeling of the sounds are done very well.

Edited August 17, 2006 by zulater

[ROCO*AFZ*]

They would have access to such ammo but if you are going in against a hard target with body armor the subsonic .223 would be worthless (as you noted at distance it's basically a .22lr with a copper jacket) hell i think most .22LR is supersonic anyways because you can buy subsonic .22LR. Eitherway being inserted against a rebel force that you don't know much about going with an underpowered subsonic .223 is not the brightest idea.

Still the mexian rebels more than likely will not have subsonic ammo.

And it just takes a lot of shots to kill anyone with a .223. It wasn't designed to be a one shot one kill weapon. It was designed to be humane according to the geneiva convention. Reports from marines in Iraq rotuinely state it takes multiple rounds to drop an enemy and they aren't using subsonic ammo.

Subsonic would be used when absolute stealth is needed. In graw absolute stealth is not needed, penetration and stopping power is needed to get to your intended destination since avoiding the enemy is not an option.

In the single player you are susposed to be stealthy(although sometimes your ai isn't). The Multi player is based off the single player campaign storyline.

Very interesting.

[zulater]

In the single player you are susposed to be stealthy(although sometimes your ai isn't). The Multi player is based off the single player campaign storyline.

Very interesting.

But you are forced to engage an encamped enemy on their terms so going in with an underpowered round is asking for trouble. If you were able to pass around the spots where the enemy had setup machine guns and the like I would agree that stealth would be more important than stopping power. But also since you are allowed two weapons your mp5sd or other secondary weapon would be used as stealth and your primary would be use for when you need stopping power.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

In the single player you are susposed to be stealthy(although sometimes your ai isn't). The Multi player is based off the single player campaign storyline.

Very interesting.

But you are forced to engage an encamped enemy on their terms so going in with an underpowered round is asking for trouble. If you were able to pass around the spots where the enemy had setup machine guns and the like I would agree that stealth would be more important than stopping power. But also since you are allowed two weapons your mp5sd or other secondary weapon would be used as stealth and your primary would be use for when you need stopping power.

LOL but in the SP we all know our ai hardly ever uses there 2ndary or nades!

Truthfully i'm not sure just some things to think about. Does anyone know what the real Ghost's use? or what the future will have

[}PW{ Postal]

Ive been reading through this debate but have only come up with one conclusion.

If this game was based on todays technology then i would expect the sounds of todays weapons to be there But this game is based in the future so its hard to say what they should sound like.

This is where conflicts come in just like this one cause there is no way of saying how it will sound in the future. There is only speculation.

Now...would that crack sound be cool...i beleive it would. But i cant say it should be there only because i dont know what future weapons will sound like.

[zulater]

Ive been reading through this debate but have only come up with one conclusion.

If this game was based on todays technology then i would expect the sounds of todays weapons to be there But this game is based in the future so its hard to say what they should sound like.

This is where conflicts come in just like this one cause there is no way of saying how it will sound in the future. There is only speculation.

Now...would that crack sound be cool...i beleive it would. But i cant say it should be there only because i dont know what future weapons will sound like.

it's a matter of physics. the rounds are the same as what we have today and to have reasonable stopping power need to be traveling faster than the speed of sound. they aren't using some new magic bullet that defies the laws of physics.

[}PW{ Postal]

Ive been reading through this debate but have only come up with one conclusion.

If this game was based on todays technology then i would expect the sounds of todays weapons to be there But this game is based in the future so its hard to say what they should sound like.

This is where conflicts come in just like this one cause there is no way of saying how it will sound in the future. There is only speculation.

Now...would that crack sound be cool...i beleive it would. But i cant say it should be there only because i dont know what future weapons will sound like.

it's a matter of physics. the rounds are the same as what we have today and to have reasonable stopping power need to be traveling faster than the speed of sound. they aren't using some new magic bullet that defies the laws of physics.

Yeah but how do you know? You can look at trend and say that things probably wont evolve for ammunition in that time but maybe someone in 3 years figures out a way to make a sub sonic round be just as effective as a regular round.

This is why this whole conversation is a mute point. We just dont know. Unless you can predict the future.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Ive been reading through this debate but have only come up with one conclusion.

If this game was based on todays technology then i would expect the sounds of todays weapons to be there But this game is based in the future so its hard to say what they should sound like.

This is where conflicts come in just like this one cause there is no way of saying how it will sound in the future. There is only speculation.

Now...would that crack sound be cool...i beleive it would. But i cant say it should be there only because i dont know what future weapons will sound like.

it's a matter of physics. the rounds are the same as what we have today and to have reasonable stopping power need to be traveling faster than the speed of sound. they aren't using some new magic bullet that defies the laws of physics.

Yeah but how do you know? You can look at trend and say that things probably wont evolve for ammunition in that time but maybe someone in 3 years figures out a way to make a sub sonic round be just as effective as a regular round.

This is why this whole conversation is a mute point. We just dont know. Unless you can predict the future.

Kind of like th x8 launcher's nades are set to go off after 30 meters as not to accidently kill or injure the guy shooting it?

10 years ago who would have thought... without a string attached at least.

Edited August 17, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[RAbbi_74]

Ive been reading through this debate but have only come up with one conclusion.

If this game was based on todays technology then i would expect the sounds of todays weapons to be there But this game is based in the future so its hard to say what they should sound like.

This is where conflicts come in just like this one cause there is no way of saying how it will sound in the future. There is only speculation.

Now...would that crack sound be cool...i beleive it would. But i cant say it should be there only because i dont know what future weapons will sound like.

With the exception of the MR-C (and the GI-8? not sure about that one) this game IS based on small arms that have been fired by all sorts already in today's world. Even the M-8. Seen a ton of videos of this guy and that one firing off metric butt tons of rounds. Even the IGLA has already been built and tested. I could go buy an M-99 sniper rifle just like the one in GRAW for $1,799.00 at a local shop here if I had the cash and a reason to own a .50 rifle. REALLY. Wanna see a pic of it up on the rack? In 2006, not 2013.

Not to bust your chops, but that's not much of a point. The only change in technology this game counts on is an ability to apply caseless ammunition technology to a practical submachinegun- the MR-C. Otherwise, this game's weapons have already been done...