HH Map Impression

[ToW-Angel]

I had a chance today to play some HH. Although I truly enjoy the type of game it is, it does lack depth. What I mean by depth is that the maps are small and too well contained. It basically ends up being a nade fest. From spawns to HH zone, you can practically throw a frag and clear the zone. It then becomes a nade fest with people making it to the others spawn in less than 10 seconds and then the spawn raping begins. I'm not opposed to spawn raping, but with maps being as small as they are, 10 seconds from spawn to spawn is very short distance. It's no more than a football field in length for the sprinters who win the Olympics. Maybe it's a little further and takes 15 seconds. This is what I mean by it lacking depth.

I have come from a game that you can sit out at 1000m, and if you are very good, you can pick off opposing snipers. Spawns that are far enough away that they take several minutes to reach by foot. And, I see it truly difficult in HH Maps currently that allow for this. You are already in the mix of action as soon as you spawn in, and with there being very little cover at all to make your get away.

There is very little a play can do in such situations where you cannot even make it out of spawn because the zone looks directly into each others spawns. If one team owns the zone, you can forget getting out of your spawn. This leaves an interesting point open... Those who make it into the zone first are the winners most of the time. With one team owning the zone, one team attempting to get into the zone and being able to see into the spawns, it's virtually game over for the team that never made it close.

Giving a great depth in HH maps that don't immediately put you into action will allow your team to maneuver much more cautiously, keeping an eye out for opposing team snipers, giving your gunners the chance to lay down cover fire, your rifleman to back them up with their Scar's, and your snipers counter sniping.

Would limiting spawns on an HH Map cure the problem? I personally do not know, but I'm sure someone here could comment on this.

Do I enjoy HH? Absolutely! I just wish for a greater depth in the maps to do much more. I'm also hoping that the cartographers of this game will understand what I'm talking about, and that GRiN sees the need to extend the drawing distance as a much needed thing to allow for the greater depth in maps.

This is only my opinion and impression of HH thus far.

[sui317]

first time HH for me and i liked it, but like angel, i find the maps are kinda small and narrow very confined think that more open maps would be better suited

there is one map which did have the openness to it but forgot the name

it is the one with the radio tower, that one is more open and gives room for some slower pace gaming

but all in all i think with map tools for HH it can be great, it is but limited

the maps one their own do have atmosphere and feel fine, nice spots and lightning

oh and the death sounds bit off topic but very funny it is better than the buzzklick sound

thanks grin and ubi for this patch and desmond22 for the funny sounds of death

Edited August 3, 2006 by sui317

[Ghost9]

hopefully some map makers will make some bigger HH maps that you actually have to plan an attack on. It'd be great to assault a building or encampment or something. Bigger maps are better for sneaking, and better for defending. I'm really really hoping some map makers start making some cool HH maps.

[OliverReed]

From spawns to HH zone, you can practically throw a frag and clear the zone. It then becomes a nade fest with people making it to the others spawn in less than 10 seconds and then the spawn raping begins.

Maybe thats why they added the new/extra dying sounds - I certainly noticed them.

A lot.

Edited August 3, 2006 by OliverReed

[rossiski]

I feel confident that additional maps would help to satiate your thirst for depth.

Some forests with a center village or fort would be nice.

Can I expect something from you, by say...5pm tomorrow?

("Ummm, yeah, I'm gonna have to ask you to come in tomorrow and Sunday. Okay? Great...")

[Stormin]

I had a chance today to play some HH. Although I truly enjoy the type of game it is, it does lack depth. What I mean by depth is that the maps are small and too well contained. It basically ends up being a nade fest. From spawns to HH zone, you can practically throw a frag and clear the zone. It then becomes a nade fest with people making it to the others spawn in less than 10 seconds and then the spawn raping begins. I'm not opposed to spawn raping, but with maps being as small as they are, 10 seconds from spawn to spawn is very short distance. It's no more than a football field in length for the sprinters who win the Olympics. Maybe it's a little further and takes 15 seconds. This is what I mean by it lacking depth.

I have come from a game that you can sit out at 1000m, and if you are very good, you can pick off opposing snipers. Spawns that are far enough away that they take several minutes to reach by foot. And, I see it truly difficult in HH Maps currently that allow for this. You are already in the mix of action as soon as you spawn in, and with there being very little cover at all to make your get away.

There is very little a play can do in such situations where you cannot even make it out of spawn because the zone looks directly into each others spawns. If one team owns the zone, you can forget getting out of your spawn. This leaves an interesting point open... Those who make it into the zone first are the winners most of the time. With one team owning the zone, one team attempting to get into the zone and being able to see into the spawns, it's virtually game over for the team that never made it close.

Giving a great depth in HH maps that don't immediately put you into action will allow your team to maneuver much more cautiously, keeping an eye out for opposing team snipers, giving your gunners the chance to lay down cover fire, your rifleman to back them up with their Scar's, and your snipers counter sniping.

Would limiting spawns on an HH Map cure the problem? I personally do not know, but I'm sure someone here could comment on this.

Do I enjoy HH? Absolutely! I just wish for a greater depth in the maps to do much more. I'm also hoping that the cartographers of this game will understand what I'm talking about, and that GRiN sees the need to extend the drawing distance as a much needed thing to allow for the greater depth in maps.

This is only my opinion and impression of HH thus far.

I agree with Angel here.. I played HH for 4 respawns and was owned with a minute, either with a sniper or frag.... Larger spawn spawn areas and random spawns would nice as well..

[th33f.]

I had a chance today to play some HH. Although I truly enjoy the type of game it is, it does lack depth. What I mean by depth is that the maps are small and too well contained. It basically ends up being a nade fest. From spawns to HH zone, you can practically throw a frag and clear the zone. It then becomes a nade fest with people making it to the others spawn in less than 10 seconds and then the spawn raping begins. I'm not opposed to spawn raping, but with maps being as small as they are, 10 seconds from spawn to spawn is very short distance. It's no more than a football field in length for the sprinters who win the Olympics. Maybe it's a little further and takes 15 seconds. This is what I mean by it lacking depth.

I have come from a game that you can sit out at 1000m, and if you are very good, you can pick off opposing snipers. Spawns that are far enough away that they take several minutes to reach by foot. And, I see it truly difficult in HH Maps currently that allow for this. You are already in the mix of action as soon as you spawn in, and with there being very little cover at all to make your get away.

There is very little a play can do in such situations where you cannot even make it out of spawn because the zone looks directly into each others spawns. If one team owns the zone, you can forget getting out of your spawn. This leaves an interesting point open... Those who make it into the zone first are the winners most of the time. With one team owning the zone, one team attempting to get into the zone and being able to see into the spawns, it's virtually game over for the team that never made it close.

Giving a great depth in HH maps that don't immediately put you into action will allow your team to maneuver much more cautiously, keeping an eye out for opposing team snipers, giving your gunners the chance to lay down cover fire, your rifleman to back them up with their Scar's, and your snipers counter sniping.

Would limiting spawns on an HH Map cure the problem? I personally do not know, but I'm sure someone here could comment on this.

Do I enjoy HH? Absolutely! I just wish for a greater depth in the maps to do much more. I'm also hoping that the cartographers of this game will understand what I'm talking about, and that GRiN sees the need to extend the drawing distance as a much needed thing to allow for the greater depth in maps.

This is only my opinion and impression of HH thus far.

I agree with Angel here.. I played HH for 4 respawns and was owned with a minute, either with a sniper or frag.... Larger spawn spawn areas and random spawns would nice as well..

that's because you don't play HH with respawns. or not more than 3, at the very least. complaining about lack of depth. you don't play GR with unlimited spawns. tin foil hats available in the other thread...

[ToW-Angel]

that's because you don't play HH with respawns. or not more than 3, at the very least. complaining about lack of depth. you don't play GR with unlimited spawns. tin foil hats available in the other thread...

Everyone has been talking about the immersion that they need to feel while playing the game. My immersion is as I stated in the huge long opinion of mine. It lacks the depth of maps that have more to offer than being in the zone and shooting into the spawn.

Larger maps will have more depth, and limiting spawns is a good thing. However, I still like the idea of maps that are not so confining that you are in the zone and can shoot into the spawns. That is a very limiting factor of the map. Your team dominates the zone, there is no hope of getting out of the spawn. If maps were larger, deeper, where it would open up the map to more true SpecOps kind of tactical playing instead of a nade fest zone-to-spawn raping.

Limiting spawns is only one part of the bigger picture. Seeing the spawn from the zone is a huge problem that needs to be addressed by the cartographers. You get 3-4 guys all GL'ing a spawn, it's entirely over with especially if they can see into the spawn from the zone.

4 people x 6 GL's + 4 grenades OR 6 GL's plus 4 GL's, you are looking at 40 grenades that can be tossed at the spawn that can easily be seen from the zone. 16 players per side, 3 spawns each is only 48, it only takes one more person with a GL and it's game over in a matter of a couple of minutes because you can SEE into the SPAWN from the ZONE. And that is a problem of the size of the maps, and a well known gripe from many that play DM.

The HH Maps need to be at least 4-8 times larger.

I have to say this much... At least in JO you had large areas where you had plenty of room to get out of the spawn and you couldn't see the spawns from the zone (unless the cartographer made it that way). At least NovaLogic got that part right when they made their maps and many map makers also.

With maps being larger, it does slow the pace of the game down, but it also becomes more tactical than dominating the zone and being able to see into the spawns.

I am sure that there will be some great forthcoming maps of HH for everyone, and I hope that they take what I say into consideration when they do make maps. It's at least something to consider.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Set the server to 7 sec invulnerability. They'll be surprized when they can't kill you and you waste them for spawn raping.

It's up to the server admins to enforce this.

[elLOCOmutha]

Set the server to 7 sec invulnerability. They'll be surprized when they can't kill you and you waste them for spawn raping.

It's up to the server admins to enforce this.

I agree 100%, this game has so many options, its up to the server owners to set them up for what they like and to help take away spawn raping and what not...

Server owners/Admins take control of your servers and help get rid of spawn raping etc..

I might just start a server of my own for this game I like it so much, but I would dumb down the no spawn after so many deaths etc...this game needs to attract more players online or it will be done...forever.

[GR] this is not...lighten up on the max death no respawn, people just want to get online and kill others no matter if your a noob or a experienced player.

Edited August 3, 2006 by elLOCOmutha

[ToW-Angel]

Can you at least agree on the fact that the maps are small? If you can, then you understand where I'm coming from. If you disagree with me that the maps are small, then it means that you like CQB style of gaming.

I'm personally into the more heavy tactical game style of slueth, picking off targets, and then making my way to the achievable goal.

HH, TDM, DM and DOM, there is a tiny bit of tactical to it. Co-Ops become predictible as you know what to expect next because you've played them so many times.

HH can be heavily tatical if maps were not so small as they currently are. maps large enough that you can literally flank the other team, you cannot see into the spawn.

I'm getting to the point that I may have to start drawing crayon pictures for people to understand what I'm trying so hard to explain to you.

Invulnerability is fine... But, isn't this game a Tactical FPS? The maps are truly too small to pull off any serious tactics.

Again, I hope the cartographers understand what I'm attempting to explain.

[elLOCOmutha]

Can you at least agree on the fact that the maps are small? If you can, then you understand where I'm coming from. If you disagree with me that the maps are small, then it means that you like CQB style of gaming.

I'm personally into the more heavy tactical game style of slueth, picking off targets, and then making my way to the achievable goal.

HH, TDM, DM and DOM, there is a tiny bit of tactical to it. Co-Ops become predictible as you know what to expect next because you've played them so many times.

HH can be heavily tatical if maps were not so small as they currently are. maps large enough that you can literally flank the other team, you cannot see into the spawn.

I'm getting to the point that I may have to start drawing crayon pictures for people to understand what I'm trying so hard to explain to you.

Invulnerability is fine... But, isn't this game a Tactical FPS? The maps are truly too small to pull off any serious tactics.

Again, I hope the cartographers understand what I'm attempting to explain.

I agree, the maps are small and the max limit of players on these small maps is too large.

30 or so people running around on these small maps = no fun.

I find if I play on a server that has 10 or so people its great...other than that its spawn rape city.

[ToW-Angel]

I really hope that cartographers take this under advisement when they create HH maps. You should not be able to shoot into the spawn from the zone and that the spawns are truly too close together.

[RAbbi_74]

LOL War IS Hell, isn't it?

[ToW-Angel]

Sadly, yes... Just don't like the nade fests from such small maps.

[Stormin]

Sadly, yes... Just don't like the nade fests from such small maps.

Yep, I know the feeling...

[Lightspeed]

shows another lack of planning and testing by the Devs, a comedy of errors you might say...

[ROCO*AFZ*]

shows another lack of planning and testing by the Devs, a comedy of errors you might say...

Nah it means bad server admining. True HH should have no spawns or very limited. If limited enough invulnerability that you won't be spammed and killed.

[Stormin]

shows another lack of planning and testing by the Devs, a comedy of errors you might say...

Man, your just FULL of good things to say today!!!!

[Lightspeed]

True HH should have no respawns? you're joking right, I have never seen or been in a HH server that didnt have respawns.

I would say HH is one game type where you must have respawns to make it work, because its a battle over a time period to see who can hold a central base fro longest. Take away the respawns and it becomes Last Man Standing.

As far as being FULL of good things to say, Im still waiting for this game to be worth the $90AUS I paid for it, so yes I will complain about the mistakes in the game until I feel I havent wasted my dollars. Im not alone.

I would have thought it reasonably obvious to protect a Spawn Zone from being susceptible to Spawn Rape; to build maps that were designed to accomodate 30 palyers or specify that they're small maps designed for 10 players; to allow simple rotation of gametypes within a Server.

This is not breakthrough stuff Im suggesting, it was available for most other FPS years ago - why is it so difficult to get this right?

Edited August 5, 2006 by PoW_LigHtsPeEd

[ToW-Angel]

Maps are tiny, and that's a fact. Like I've said a couple of times, I hope that the cartographers make larger maps.

[XenoSoft]

HH is a joke, not only in the aspect of spawn raping. It's just that the DEV team did nothing to improve on any of the complaints the game had.

they didn't improve one single thing to gear this game towards team work at all.

Graphics 10/10

Sounds 20/10

Coding 8/10

False advertisment skills 50/10

Gameplay 3/10

Graw is just Qauke with out jumping sadly, it even has a rocket launcher called "Grenade launcher"

I was an avid supporter, I don't know who to blaim? does UBI really control what you can fix? You didn't gear the game at all towards team work, not one single team work options AVAILABLE AT ALL.

Look at Team Death match? everyone goes off in their own direction, EVEN BF2 encourages team work more than this. In BF2 people naturaly assist eachother because the game play mechanics force you too.

In this game...sigh I can't spot my enemey, I can't communicate with my team mates, can't order them, can't even get them to stick together, or aim at the same target, or ask for support.

sadly, I have lost faith...I'll keep GRAW on my computer because its a shiney Qauke, but its not the Ghost Recon I was waiting for, I even waited till the end of summer too.

IN the future, I'll be avoiding GRIN and UBI soft games that advertise Team work, or Milk Cool game titles and wait for the game the establish itself before peeking into it.

BF2 is more fun, since it offers some form of team work, which is why I BUY gamesl ike these.

Sorry GRIN, but you failed at your original goal...Yeah this game is fun for solo players, and sadly to say, it does fall under "Run and GUN"

-Never have to Look behind me

-Never have to Look around a corner, (Seing the person first has no value since it doesn't affect your aim, or does anything to give the advantage)

-One weapon rules the entire game (Grenade Launcher)

-No team work at all

-1 person is better than 5 people because of a weapon(ala... grenade launcher)

-Even if you try to work together, their are no tools in the game that allow you too.

-This game carries Ghost Recon's name, and name only =\

Better luck on your next project, but you won't fool me again.

Edit:

Also, I don't plan on spamming the forums like most people do. "LOL, GRIN SUXORS, THEY MADE ME WAIT ALL THIS TIME FOR THIS"

It is a buissness, I Understand that, but It is also my job to be a smart consumer. You don't buy eveyrthing you see on a commercial do you? Well I guess I'll have to start applying that games too since they can get away with false advertisment.

Edited August 5, 2006 by XenoSoft

[ToW-Angel]

HH is a joke, not only in the aspect of spawn raping. It's just that the DEV team did nothing to improve on any of the complaints the game had.

they didn't improve one single thing to gear this game towards team work at all.

Graphics 10/10

Sounds 20/10

Coding 8/10

False advertisment skills 50/10

Gameplay 3/10

Graw is just Qauke with out jumping sadly, it even has a rocket launcher called "Grenade launcher"

I was an avid supporter, I don't know who to blaim? does UBI really control what you can fix? You didn't gear the game at all towards team work, not one single team work options AVAILABLE AT ALL.

Look at Team Death match? everyone goes off in their own direction, EVEN BF2 encourages team work more than this. In BF2 people naturaly assist eachother because the game play mechanics force you too.

In this game...sigh I can't spot my enemey, I can't communicate with my team mates, can't order them, can't even get them to stick together, or aim at the same target, or ask for support.

sadly, I have lost faith...I'll keep GRAW on my computer because its a shiney Qauke, but its not the Ghost Recon I was waiting for, I even waited till the end of summer too.

IN the future, I'll be avoiding GRIN and UBI soft games that advertise Team work, or Milk Cool game titles and wait for the game the establish itself before peeking into it.

BF2 is more fun, since it offers some form of team work, which is why I BUY gamesl ike these.

Sorry GRIN, but you failed at your original goal...Yeah this game is fun for solo players, and sadly to say, it does fall under "Run and GUN"

-Never have to Look behind me

-Never have to Look around a corner, (Seing the person first has no value since it doesn't affect your aim, or does anything to give the advantage)

-One weapon rules the entire game (Grenade Launcher)

-No team work at all

-1 person is better than 5 people because of a weapon(ala... grenade launcher)

-Even if you try to work together, their are no tools in the game that allow you too.

-This game carries Ghost Recon's name, and name only =\

Better luck on your next project, but you won't fool me again.

Edit:

Also, I don't plan on spamming the forums like most people do. "LOL, GRIN SUXORS, THEY MADE ME WAIT ALL THIS TIME FOR THIS"

It is a buissness, I Understand that, but It is also my job to be a smart consumer. You don't buy eveyrthing you see on a commercial do you? Well I guess I'll have to start applying that games too since they can get away with false advertisment.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

True HH should have no respawns? you're joking right, I have never seen or been in a HH server that didnt have respawns.

I would say HH is one game type where you must have respawns to make it work, because its a battle over a time period to see who can hold a central base fro longest. Take away the respawns and it becomes Last Man Standing.

As far as being FULL of good things to say, Im still waiting for this game to be worth the $90AUS I paid for it, so yes I will complain about the mistakes in the game until I feel I havent wasted my dollars. Im not alone.

I would have thought it reasonably obvious to protect a Spawn Zone from being susceptible to Spawn Rape; to build maps that were designed to accomodate 30 palyers or specify that they're small maps designed for 10 players; to allow simple rotation of gametypes within a Server.

This is not breakthrough stuff Im suggesting, it was available for most other FPS years ago - why is it so difficult to get this right?

European's match with no spawns, HH. 2 ways to win... one get more points which gets rid of spawn campers as they have to push the zone, and #2 is LMS style win.

[Lightspeed]

All Europeans match with no respawns...how generalised can a statement be?

I know plenty of European gamers and Leagues where respawns was the only way they played.

Edited August 5, 2006 by PoW_LigHtsPeEd