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' date='Aug 3 2006, 02:23 PM' post='405640']

How can you even work as a team when your team starts individually spread out across the map? How can you work as a team when the other team starts individually spread out across the map? What team work is involved here? There is none. Everyone is just randomly looking around for members of the other team. This is simply a glorified version of Deathmatch were players are technically part of one team of the other. Since each team does not start together there are no choke points. Go design some maps that have them? The only way this could be done is to redesign the gametype as well. It's not the slightest bit unreasonable for me to expect Team Deathmatch to include teams that start together and work as a unit pushing toward various chokes point to take on the other team. That adrenaline rush when each round starts as you rush to a given choke point with your team is dead. Is anyone here with me on this or did all the other long time, hard care Tom Clancy gamers die along with Ghost Recon 2?

I can't believe people are actually reponding seriously to this drivel. A 32 player server with everyone loading and starting at the same time and place? And then what? Join arm-in-arm and skip across the battlefield? You expect 16 perfect strangers to work and fight as a cohesive unit? In a public server nonetheless?

Thats not likely to happen. I will have to wait to get home to give my opinion on that.

So far what I here is sorta troubling, but we shall see.

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Hmm so far, i really disliked both new mode for simple reason that should be easly fixed

Team Deathmatch:

First thing, the teams players all spawn at the same place all the time. That's good in the context where there is only one wave of player, but with unlimited spawn, (every time i tryed this mode) it ended up in a camping party for both team and ultimately the player or team that win is the team that spawn camp the most. So that's really no fun at all, and as pointed out there is simply no teamplay except the fact that all player find one spot for spawn camping. (i know that's a persistent problem in Tom Clancy game but seriously some game like FEAR have fixed that kind of problem and we would expect a ubisoft supported game to do the same (in the futur?))

How to fix this issu:

Put spawn point all aground the map, make the player spawn at random position with a priority to spawn point near a friendly player (check FEAR TDM if you want an exemples of a very well done implementation of those design principle, FEAR even if that's not a tactical shooter is alot of Team play). And create smaller map for TDM. This way the fighting will the more intense and at random position instead of an expected "oh all those enemy spawn there anyway let's just camp there and there and there".

Hamburger hill:

First thing this mode is a good idee in principle. BUT... in the currently design it should be call "Killing spawning enemies from your fortify position in the center while they have simply no chance to kill you back because anyway there is a minimum of 6 player aiming at him" (and i excluded the grenade carnage in that suggested title).

In fact why not call this mode, "Sieging the enemy team 5x5 meter spawn point"

How to fix this:

Well that don't seem hard base on the map editor. Make the spawn point random around the map, (except in the contested area) because right now. The domination of one team upon the other seem systematic.... One team completely dominated the other team and the other team have simply no chance to even get close to the contested zone. Also make many "secure" way around those map to allow player to attack from different positions instead of forcing them to rush into a certain death. That's a tactical shooter so some tactical improvement would be great.

Note that my comment are not base on the fact that my teams were losing, it's based on the fact that my teams were totally owning the other team, so my comments are base on the context were we were totally dominating the other team in a way i found really cheap...

I hope im not too negative there... but i think if you follow some of those idee it might improve alot those game mode.

Also that would be GREAT to be able to create coop missions soon, because the coop community seem to slowly die....

Keep up the good work Grin :g_withgrin:

we really appreciate your work! :grin1:

I believe your concerns can be addressed server-side. Find a server that suits your tastes and play there.

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Thats not likely to happen. I will have to wait to get home to give my opinion on that.

So far what I here is sorta troubling, but we shall see.

I have not played the new patch, either. But, based on the whiney, juvenile complaints I've read in the 6 hours the patch has been available, I have a feeling I'm really REALLY going to like it!

:g_withgrin:

Where do i report a bad bug at?

Technical Support

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' date='Aug 3 2006, 01:34 PM' post='405649']

Hmm so far, i really disliked both new mode for simple reason that should be easly fixed

Team Deathmatch:

First thing, the teams players all spawn at the same place all the time. That's good in the context where there is only one wave of player, but with unlimited spawn, (every time i tryed this mode) it ended up in a camping party for both team and ultimately the player or team that win is the team that spawn camp the most. So that's really no fun at all, and as pointed out there is simply no teamplay except the fact that all player find one spot for spawn camping. (i know that's a persistent problem in Tom Clancy game but seriously some game like FEAR have fixed that kind of problem and we would expect a ubisoft supported game to do the same (in the futur?))

How to fix this issu:

Put spawn point all aground the map, make the player spawn at random position with a priority to spawn point near a friendly player (check FEAR TDM if you want an exemples of a very well done implementation of those design principle, FEAR even if that's not a tactical shooter is alot of Team play). And create smaller map for TDM. This way the fighting will the more intense and at random position instead of an expected "oh all those enemy spawn there anyway let's just camp there and there and there".

Hamburger hill:

First thing this mode is a good idee in principle. BUT... in the currently design it should be call "Killing spawning enemies from your fortify position in the center while they have simply no chance to kill you back because anyway there is a minimum of 6 player aiming at him" (and i excluded the grenade carnage in that suggested title).

In fact why not call this mode, "Sieging the enemy team 5x5 meter spawn point"

How to fix this:

Well that don't seem hard base on the map editor. Make the spawn point random around the map, (except in the contested area) because right now. The domination of one team upon the other seem systematic.... One team completely dominated the other team and the other team have simply no chance to even get close to the contested zone. Also make many "secure" way around those map to allow player to attack from different positions instead of forcing them to rush into a certain death. That's a tactical shooter so some tactical improvement would be great.

Note that my comment are not base on the fact that my teams were losing, it's based on the fact that my teams were totally owning the other team, so my comments are base on the context were we were totally dominating the other team in a way i found really cheap...

I hope im not too negative there... but i think if you follow some of those idee it might improve alot those game mode.

Also that would be GREAT to be able to create coop missions soon, because the coop community seem to slowly die....

Keep up the good work Grin :g_withgrin:

we really appreciate your work! :grin1:

I believe your concerns can be addressed server-side. Find a server that suits your tastes and play there.

Could not have been said better. The options are there, its just going to take alittle time to figure out what people will like, so the server admins can tweak the server settings to try and make a mojority of the people happy.

Just because you join a server, and it seems horrible because of a gameplay issue, chances are it can be fixed within the settings, so dont Judge the game by the server settings, its really not fair.

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' date='Aug 3 2006, 02:38 PM' post='405652']

Thats not likely to happen. I will have to wait to get home to give my opinion on that.

So far what I here is sorta troubling, but we shall see.

I have not played the new patch, either. But, based on the whiney, juvenile complaints I've read in the 6 hours the patch has been available, I have a feeling I'm really REALLY going to like it!

:g_withgrin:

Where do i report a bad bug at?

Technical Support

Ty,

I posted it in the Technical Support under "An ongoing bug list?, Just a thought and not meant to be anything other than stating bugs" .

Edited by }PW{ Postal
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I'll give it some more time, but first impressions said that HH isn't fun.

Even if I'm on the spawn camping team, it gets so boring... Sure the action is intense, but I also put my self on the other teams side and think of how frustrating it is.

Next round, I am on the other team getting spawn camped. It would be one thing if I had a chance to atleast take cover, but I once some how died the split second I spawned in HH. It was the Cape I believe, you seem to fall when you spawn, I died before I finished 'falling' that half foot.

They said it's more rural, which it is. But I think the community wants a rural map, that's OPEN, not a small confined circle of love.

If TDM doesn't do it for me, I'll be removing this from my PC and waiting for other games to come out.

Edit: For open maps, think Battlefield 2 maps.

Also, I think the zone that you need to defend, should be a bigger area, so not everyone's confined in the small area.

Edited by SillyHalfMexican
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I never thought I'd see the day when a Tom Clancy based Team Deathmatch gametype offered no choke points!

design some maps that have them then.

I like the free roaming ability. It seems like it was your teammates not wanting to be a team that was the problem.

How can you even work as a team when your team starts individually spread out across the map? How can you work as a team when the other team starts individually spread out across the map? What team work is involved here? There is none. Everyone is just randomly looking around for members of the other team. This is simply a glorified version of Deathmatch were players are technically part of one team of the other. Since each team does not start together there are no choke points. Go design some maps that have them? The only way this could be done is to redesign the gametype as well. It's not the slightest bit unreasonable for me to expect Team Deathmatch to include teams that start together and work as a unit pushing toward various chokes point to take on the other team. That adrenaline rush when each round starts as you rush to a given choke point with your team is dead. Is anyone here with me on this or did all the other long time, hard care Tom Clancy gamers die along with Ghost Recon 2?

Im lost here. Are you under the impression that the spawns are randomly placed? If so you are wrong. There are 2 spawn points, they are the same ones from Domination. mayube you just loaded late.

I think you joined a game that was in progress. At the begining of a round everyone spawns together and starts from there. GR1 did not allow joining in game.

Not sure if there is a server setting for that or not... will check when i get home.

I played this particular map on the same server several rounds in a row. You can not join in the middle of the round for starters and start tearing it up. You have to sit in the lobby and wait for the next round. I initially joined prior to the round even launching. I was also among the first to load. I always am. Not a kill had taken place. I took the pic I've posted here while in game just after the round had started. Each and every time a round starts my team is spread out like this in the same spots, and not just for this one map. I'm lucky to even be in sight of another one of my teammates when a round begins and a couple seconds later players from each team are already running into each other randomly. Teams starting out randomly spread out across the map should be a server option at best. Making comparisons to RvS doesn't even work as this is not a close quarters combat game. Of course the choke points are going to be limited and repeatative. RvS is a close quarters combat game after all. GRAW is not however. GRAW Domination by it's nature does a great job of creating choke points by forcing players to capture zones according to the supply lines. These GRAW maps are large enough and with ample amounts of clutter that there will always be plenty of choke points for Team Deathmatch, all of which will never be played out as Team Deathmatch is currently implemented. Perhaps I'm in the Twilight Zone or something, but I've gone back and joined this server a couple times since originally posting this and what I've described continues to happen each and every time the round starts. Maybe I need to have my medication increased or something. ;)

Edited by Low Profile
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' date='Aug 3 2006, 01:34 PM' post='405649']

Hmm so far, i really disliked both new mode for simple reason that should be easly fixed

Team Deathmatch:

First thing, the teams players all spawn at the same place all the time. That's good in the context where there is only one wave of player, but with unlimited spawn, (every time i tryed this mode) it ended up in a camping party for both team and ultimately the player or team that win is the team that spawn camp the most. So that's really no fun at all, and as pointed out there is simply no teamplay except the fact that all player find one spot for spawn camping. (i know that's a persistent problem in Tom Clancy game but seriously some game like FEAR have fixed that kind of problem and we would expect a ubisoft supported game to do the same (in the futur?))

How to fix this issu:

Put spawn point all aground the map, make the player spawn at random position with a priority to spawn point near a friendly player (check FEAR TDM if you want an exemples of a very well done implementation of those design principle, FEAR even if that's not a tactical shooter is alot of Team play). And create smaller map for TDM. This way the fighting will the more intense and at random position instead of an expected "oh all those enemy spawn there anyway let's just camp there and there and there".

Hamburger hill:

First thing this mode is a good idee in principle. BUT... in the currently design it should be call "Killing spawning enemies from your fortify position in the center while they have simply no chance to kill you back because anyway there is a minimum of 6 player aiming at him" (and i excluded the grenade carnage in that suggested title).

In fact why not call this mode, "Sieging the enemy team 5x5 meter spawn point"

How to fix this:

Well that don't seem hard base on the map editor. Make the spawn point random around the map, (except in the contested area) because right now. The domination of one team upon the other seem systematic.... One team completely dominated the other team and the other team have simply no chance to even get close to the contested zone. Also make many "secure" way around those map to allow player to attack from different positions instead of forcing them to rush into a certain death. That's a tactical shooter so some tactical improvement would be great.

Note that my comment are not base on the fact that my teams were losing, it's based on the fact that my teams were totally owning the other team, so my comments are base on the context were we were totally dominating the other team in a way i found really cheap...

I hope im not too negative there... but i think if you follow some of those idee it might improve alot those game mode.

Also that would be GREAT to be able to create coop missions soon, because the coop community seem to slowly die....

Keep up the good work Grin :g_withgrin:

we really appreciate your work! :grin1:

I believe your concerns can be addressed server-side. Find a server that suits your tastes and play there.

Could not have been said better. The options are there, its just going to take alittle time to figure out what people will like, so the server admins can tweak the server settings to try and make a mojority of the people happy.

Just because you join a server, and it seems horrible because of a gameplay issue, chances are it can be fixed within the settings, so dont Judge the game by the server settings, its really not fair.

Now the gametype has been developed and released, it shouldn't be too hard to modify it to your liking.

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Each and every time a round starts my team is spread out like this and for more than just this one map. I'm lucky to even be in sight of another one of my teammates when a round begins and a couple seconds later players from each team are already running into each other randomly. Teams starting out randomly spread out across the map should be a server option at best.....These GRAW maps are large enough and with ample amounts of clutter that there will always be plenty of choke points for Team Deathmatch, all of which will never be played out as Team Deathmatch is currently implemented.

Imagine a server with unlimited deaths and everyone spawning at the SAME PLACE every time. If the enemy is in your base, what are you going to do? At least if you're spread out you can prepare a counter-attack to clear your base.

Again, the patch has been out only a few hours and you expect everyone in the server, mostly strangers, to anticipate your next move, work together, use tactics, and be familiar with new maps (same map with new mode might as well be a new map). Who's going to snipe? Who's going to be a gunner? A grenadier? Is so-and-so good on point? Can I expect so-and-so to cover me?

I have a feeling if you play TDM in the same server with the same people over and over again, you will have the gameplay experience you are looking for.

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I havent played it yet, but as far as maps go I dotn think thier will be a prob lem with that, especially after all the maps that just came out from the community, some are better than the originals. Now they will have somemore options to play with.

As far as teamwork, its there just have to play with a team/clan instead of pubbing.

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Imagine a server with unlimited deaths and everyone spawning at the SAME PLACE every time. If the enemy is in your base, what are you going to do? At least if you're spread out you can prepare a counter-attack to clear your base.

Great point. Spawn killing is what drove me from TDM to tourney-style coop.

I hate spawn killers. :shifty:

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I do need to up my medication. :wall: Every server I've joined had respawns turned on and the game allows you to actually join during the current round. On top of that when I died for some reason I thought the round had ended even though not enough time had even gone by for the round to be over. The whole time thing in my screenshot that was pointed out to me just didn't register. Call me an idiot. :wacko: Call me stupid. :blink: Call me whatever you like. :( I guess I deserve any such comments. If I'm guilty of anything it's only in loving what the promise of GRAW could be and being mistakenly disappointed. I'm generally very discrete with my posting, but in this case I agree that I should have just gotten a good nights sleep and checked things out again tomorrow. I'll shut up now and let you all enjoy the new patch. If I can find a good server tomorrow with respawns turned off I'll start enjoying Team Deathmatch as well. :thumbsup:

Edited by Low Profile
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I certainly hope there will be A LOT OF CO-OP CONTENT in the next Patch. I'm downloading the new patch now. I hope I am one patch closer to the mother of all CO-OP patches.

Amen bro! As far as I'm concerned, this game is "broken" until they fix the co-op. Me and my bud's want to play, but we can't if the game is over when the commander dies. Especially if you can't respawn (I can't believe the game shipped like that).

Pleeeeese GRIN, fix it soon! :please::fingersx:

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I certainly hope there will be A LOT OF CO-OP CONTENT in the next Patch. I'm downloading the new patch now. I hope I am one patch closer to the mother of all CO-OP patches.

silent_op

I hope the same but I'm happy that finally the mission "Contact" has been fixed...and I win it 'online' my first strike.

I beat the game 'coop online' at 'Hard level'.So I hope that you will give the modders the tools(coop map editor) that they need to create 'server side missions'.

name of my server:F.O.A.D GRAW & GR coop only "Hard Level"nothing less.

cable extreme speed.

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I think the deathcam really adds a positive feel to the game. It would be nice though had they added third person view as well. They should have added a small reticule in deathcam. It's essential to do so as it would allow us to observe a player that may be using an aimbot/no recoil etc.

Edited by .priZm.
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I think the deathcam really adds a positive feel to the game. It would be nice though had they added third person view as well. They should have added a small reticule in deathcam. It's essential to do so as it would allow us to observe a player that may be using an aimbot/no recoil etc.

Adios peeps, it's been fun.

But I got fed up waiting, don't get the time to play anymore with work and stuff.

Checked out the XB360 version, It aint half bad at all.... so i'll probably just throw

that on at the weekends from now on.

Good luck to GRiN and any future projects you may partake in.

Happy gaming all.

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I think the deathcam really adds a positive feel to the game. It would be nice though had they added third person view as well. They should have added a small reticule in deathcam. It's essential to do so as it would allow us to observe a player that may be using an aimbot/no recoil etc.

Adios peeps, it's been fun.

But I got fed up waiting, don't get the time to play anymore with work and stuff.

Checked out the XB360 version, It aint half bad at all.... so i'll probably just throw

that on at the weekends from now on.

Good luck to GRiN and any future projects you may partake in.

Happy gaming all.

"Buh BYE!"

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