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Question for Co-Op Guys


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I know you guys are big on the mission NOT ending when the TL dies, but I remember reading somewhere in the documentation that the reasoning for this decision, as well as the decision to kill anyone that left the mission area, was to encourage all players to work as a team. That seems like sound reasoning to me, as it will prevent someone that has memorized the map from going Rambo. I am just curious as to your opinions on the following:

1. Host starts as TL

2. If the TL dies, the team is reduced by 1, and the non-AI player with the highest score becomes TL.

3. The dead TL will then replace any AI.

4. If there are no AI, then game over for that player.

5. This continues until all players are dead or the mission is accomplished.

If there are unlimited respawns, the mission will eventually be completed, even with 4 terrible players. Then it is no longer a Co-Op mission, but a Co-Op game.

Just MO.

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IMO if you are playing Co-Op with the AI as your teammates it's not CO-Op. For the Co-Op that you are paired up with real humans, it should have a the ability to scale from zero respawn, when you die you die and the rest tof the team carries on with out you. To having a fun mode where you and the buds can just play and if you die you can respawn and not have to wait for X minutes till the next game. Both were used by the group I belong to, we used zero respawn for team practice in preparing for matches and respawn was for just having fun.

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The trouble is, the TL is host, he dies, game over. Mostly frustrating for me because we have to start again. He could hang back and let me do all the shooting, he'll be bored (it works both ways if I die). Thats not co-op, its a single player game. :D

[GR] gave the host server-side options, can't see why its not in this version. If we want to change it, why shouldn't we be able to.

Personally, I find co-op in GRAW (compared to [GR] co-op) tedious. It might make it more interesting if it were a little bit more arcade, with options to have as many respawns as you want, if you prefer the more realistic challenge, the options don't have to be changed.

I must also say, that I found GRAW disappointing from the beginning, maybe because [GR] was a more enjoyable playing experience, imho. Then again, if I was good at this game and could shoot, I may well be playing it today. I still hope the future patches improves its playability and no doubt I'll also be checking it out too.

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At AlphaSquad, we never play with spawns. If you die your out and you watch, period. It makes you work together and be more cautious, or you spend a lot of time on the sidelines.

We play as a team naturally, making you play as a team by killing you if you stray too far from the leader is BS, no matter what the reasoning. The person in charge may very well want a squad to perform a flanking maneuver from 100 yards away. Not possible in GRAW, he is made to keep his team close.

As far as the TL dies, game over, in [GR] we vote a leader at the start of every mission. If he dies, the person with stripes takes over. Mission shouldnt end just because the host dies.

All of this is tied to the fact that we dont have a real COOP game / Server tools implemented. What we have is a method of playing cooperatively with other people instead of AI that was wired together as a quick fix to get it out the door.

As soon as we get a real COOP mode, dedicated server files, real server tools, expanded squads, this game will have a real COOP game mode.

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' date='Aug 3 2006, 12:17 PM' post='405580']

I know you guys are big on the mission NOT ending when the TL dies, but I remember reading somewhere in the documentation that the reasoning for this decision, as well as the decision to kill anyone that left the mission area, was to encourage all players to work as a team. That seems like sound reasoning to me, as it will prevent someone that has memorized the map from going Rambo. I am just curious as to your opinions on the following:

1. Host starts as TL

2. If the TL dies, the team is reduced by 1, and the non-AI player with the highest score becomes TL.

3. The dead TL will then replace any AI.

4. If there are no AI, then game over for that player.

5. This continues until all players are dead or the mission is accomplished.

If there are unlimited respawns, the mission will eventually be completed, even with 4 terrible players. Then it is no longer a Co-Op mission, but a Co-Op game.

Just MO.

I like this idea.

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' date='Aug 3 2006, 07:17 PM' post='405580']

I know you guys are big on the mission NOT ending when the TL dies, but I remember reading somewhere in the documentation that the reasoning for this decision, as well as the decision to kill anyone that left the mission area, was to encourage all players to work as a team. That seems like sound reasoning to me, as it will prevent someone that has memorized the map from going Rambo. I am just curious as to your opinions on the following:

1. Host starts as TL

2. If the TL dies, the team is reduced by 1, and the non-AI player with the highest score becomes TL.

3. The dead TL will then replace any AI.

4. If there are no AI, then game over for that player.

5. This continues until all players are dead or the mission is accomplished.

If there are unlimited respawns, the mission will eventually be completed, even with 4 terrible players. Then it is no longer a Co-Op mission, but a Co-Op game.

Just MO.

Chill, I'm coding away on it! ;)

/GG

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First off let me say congrats to Grin on getting this latest patch out. I have not played it yet, but based on what I am hearing I am optimistic that the improvments made will benefit the co-op experience. :grin1:

Now onto the topic at hand...

Chill, I'm coding away on it! ;)

/GG

If you are coding this sort of "feature" for co-op now, does that mean you have already finished work on the critical stuff that makes co-op interesting for most of us (vote for TL, more than 4 players, no TL death "magic", no "mission area")?

As Sheldon already pointed out we (at AlphaSquad) always play w/o respawns, so I do not care much for spawns personally, but I understand their appeal to many.

So I would be VERY happy to see something like the [GR] system

  • configurable number of individual or team respawns,
  • elected TL,
  • TL transfers to next lower vote count on death

Combine this with

  • up to 16,24,32,... players in co-op
  • the ability to "browse/see" co-op games in progress
  • a mission editor / script compiler / mission scripting reference manual
  • an "observer mode" for watching a game (start the player dead?)
  • remote administration of server settings

and we may well have the tools to carry on the GR co-op tradition and start thinking about how we can try to pull off a GR:AW SR2006. :ph34r:

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First off let me say congrats to Grin on getting this latest patch out. I have not played it yet, but based on what I am hearing I am optimistic that the improvments made will benefit the co-op experience. :grin1:

Now onto the topic at hand...

Chill, I'm coding away on it! ;)

/GG

If you are coding this sort of "feature" for co-op now, does that mean you have already finished work on the critical stuff that makes co-op interesting for most of us (vote for TL, more than 4 players, no TL death "magic", no "mission area")?

As Sheldon already pointed out we (at AlphaSquad) always play w/o respawns, so I do not care much for spawns personally, but I understand their appeal to many.

So I would be VERY happy to see something like the [GR] system

  • configurable number of individual or team respawns,
  • elected TL,
  • TL transfers to next lower vote count on death

Combine this with

  • up to 16,24,32,... players in co-op
  • the ability to "browse/see" co-op games in progress
  • a mission editor / script compiler / mission scripting reference manual
  • an "observer mode" for watching a game (start the player dead?)
  • remote administration of server settings

and we may well have the tools to carry on the GR co-op tradition and start thinking about how we can try to pull off a GR:AW SR2006. :ph34r:

I like the way you think... I second it... Though I think playing with respawns should be an option with how many.. The rest, I couldn't have said it any better...

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First off let me say congrats to Grin on getting this latest patch out. I have not played it yet, but based on what I am hearing I am optimistic that the improvments made will benefit the co-op experience. :grin1:

Now onto the topic at hand...

Chill, I'm coding away on it! ;)

/GG

If you are coding this sort of "feature" for co-op now, does that mean you have already finished work on the critical stuff that makes co-op interesting for most of us (vote for TL, more than 4 players, no TL death "magic", no "mission area")?

As Sheldon already pointed out we (at AlphaSquad) always play w/o respawns, so I do not care much for spawns personally, but I understand their appeal to many.

So I would be VERY happy to see something like the [GR] system

  • configurable number of individual or team respawns,
  • elected TL,
  • TL transfers to next lower vote count on death

Combine this with

  • up to 16,24,32,... players in co-op
  • the ability to "browse/see" co-op games in progress
  • a mission editor / script compiler / mission scripting reference manual
  • an "observer mode" for watching a game (start the player dead?)
  • remote administration of server settings

and we may well have the tools to carry on the GR co-op tradition and start thinking about how we can try to pull off a GR:AW SR2006. :ph34r:

Silver Tongue Devil, I'm glad your Alpha..

:stupid:

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First off let me say congrats to Grin on getting this latest patch out. I have not played it yet, but based on what I am hearing I am optimistic that the improvments made will benefit the co-op experience. :grin1:

Now onto the topic at hand...

Chill, I'm coding away on it! ;)

/GG

If you are coding this sort of "feature" for co-op now, does that mean you have already finished work on the critical stuff that makes co-op interesting for most of us (vote for TL, more than 4 players, no TL death "magic", no "mission area")?

As Sheldon already pointed out we (at AlphaSquad) always play w/o respawns, so I do not care much for spawns personally, but I understand their appeal to many.

So I would be VERY happy to see something like the [GR] system

  • configurable number of individual or team respawns,
  • elected TL,
  • TL transfers to next lower vote count on death

Combine this with

  • up to 16,24,32,... players in co-op
  • the ability to "browse/see" co-op games in progress
  • a mission editor / script compiler / mission scripting reference manual
  • an "observer mode" for watching a game (start the player dead?)
  • remote administration of server settings

and we may well have the tools to carry on the GR co-op tradition and start thinking about how we can try to pull off a GR:AW SR2006. :ph34r:

Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

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Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

I am intrigued.

First off, THANK YOU for confirming GRIN's work on our beloved coop game type. Interesting to note that GRIN is now considering a second game type beyond campaign-mode to address multi-player coop. Given the stumbling blocks our modders have had trying to edit the campaign type to allow more players, I'm excited to hear you're taking a different approach.

I feel confident that GRIN knows what we're looking for in tourney-style coop. Your members are always poking their heads into threads, learning what the majority likes and dislikes. Personally, I appreciate your dedication to GRAW.

Looking forward to seeing the next patch.

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Personnally i feel the co-op side are out in the dark.

Seperate topic would be great for CO-OP Banter only.

What do you think of it, if you like it so far, not what you don`t like about it.

Can we have any feedback on future co-op hope?

Tinker

:zorro:

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Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

HUGE THANKS for the information GeckoGore. I'm a bit surprised that this "requires" a different game-mode than the current co-op utilizes -- but when you get right down to it I don't have the foggiest idea what a game-mode is in GR:AW... If we want to talk GR .gtf files that's different :)

The only other items I can think to add to my request list would be

  • Server sided missions (e.g. I do not need to distribute the script/mission to clients)
  • A functional mod managment system (e.g. clients can see what is running on a server)

Again thanks for the information, I know I will be looking forward to the August patch.

:g_withgrin:

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Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

Huge thanks for the info! I've been waiting for the SP/Coop improvements since the game was released, and this looks like the light at the end of the tunnel for the Coop part! :)

:g_withgrin:

Edited by Malleus
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GriN Gecko,

Thanks for this reponse. That is all that was required for me to hang tough with SWAT 4 coop for another month or 2. Just KNOWING that you guys are going to make coop great is all it took for me to assure you that I will be waiting patiently to play again and to tell my friends to buy.

And don't believe for a second that just becuase you have been on the shelfs for a while without these features, that your sales will remain on the slide. A full-on resurrection of sales (and coop players and clans etc) are very much possible. This crowd is hard core, and the nastiest of posters (the ones who make us all sad to read their hate) will come back with a vengeance and they will tell all their freinds to buy etc as soon as the feature set hits that sweet spot.

Thanks for sticking to it. As I keep telling people. GRAW may not be a classic. but it is certainly a classic in the making. we will all let you know when you get it there.

LOL

All the Best,

Sleepdoc

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Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

That is the kind of post we need.

How about widescreen? I havn't seen anything on this except my constant insistance.

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Well, I'm working on both this and that ;) The basic 4 player campaign co-op and the multi-players style co-op are two different game-modes, and they have different features. The multi one will share lots of features from the other mp game-modes. We're trying to squeeze in as much as possible of what you're asking for, and some things you havent asked for too. But at this point no one knows exactly how much we'll be able to get in there in time for this patch.

/GG

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Thank you GRIN. :grin1:

With this info I may be able to drag my crew back from playing World of Weirdcraft and back where they belong, playing CO-OP.

Finally! The light at the end of the tunnel has been turned back on!

:g_withgrin:

p.s. Stick a pair of binos in the next patch and I'll give you the details to Rockys off shore bank account.

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Bueghler

* Server sided missions (e.g. I do not need to distribute the script/mission to clients)

* A functional mod managment system (e.g. clients can see what is running on a server)

Mod managment system would be great, possible?

Server-sided missions will obviously save you having x amount of excess files.

Tinker

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