Spawn Camping

[Cangaroo.TNT 0]

For reasons of full disclosure, the following occurred in Shadw Company Elite's server tonight. My game name is Cangaroo.TNT.

The server was about 1/2 full, and I went 7:0. I'm pretty bad, so I was pleased with my score. Then, someone accused me of spawn camping. Since I'm new to the GR series, I am turning to the distinguished and venerable ORG community to provide me with some clarity.

Statement of Facts:

I was in a zone adjacent to an enemy zone.

The front (the edge of my zone) was deep in enemy territory (i.e. we were winning).

I was by myself, with no comms.

After the initial push (of which I took part) I decided to take a defensive position (again, because I was by myself).

I thought this decision was prudent because I was alone, and SOMEONE had to defend our zones while others pushed forward.

Is this spawn camping? I honestly thought you [GR] guys would consider this simply setting an ambush. It's not like I was overlooking their base. I was simply defending a zone we occupied. If no one defends a zone, it simply becomes BF2 when each team takes turns capturing a flag (zone).

Was I wrong?

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

Well in domination.. the objective is to dominate or defend your zones.

I don't see anything wrong unless you were killing people when they spawned in.. Which on our server is allowed although not abused as the enemy should protect there spawn.

[ToW-Angel 0]

I am of the theory... If you can keep them at their spawn, good for you. If I'm the one spawning, and I get killed, there should at least be a 3 to 5 second delay to at least give me the chance to get out of the zone. If I'm unable to get out of the spawn point, then it's my own fault. I should change tactics and try something different.

The point is that people should defend their spawns, if they fail to do so then it is their own fault.

In JO, many squads adopted the "No Spawn Camping" rule. While in someone elses server, I respect their rules. If they don't have any rules, but state it in the server, I will respect their rules also. I am a guest in their server and I must respect their rules.

Same goes for my own server... If I allow spawn camping, then everyone should do their best to defend the spawn point. If the other team gets pushed back to their spawn point, then there is no other choice but to shoot them at their spawn point. It's the law of the jungle at this point.

Being that I was military for 8+ yrs, there is no such thing as a default area that cannot be attacked if there is an opposing military faction. We do what we can to eliminate civillian casualties.

Since there are no civilians in GR:AW, all is fair game and if the opposing team gets pushed back to their spawn, they had better be ready to defend it. That's the point of the game, to kill your opposing team... Otherwise, it's just an arcade game where nothing really counts.

If people feel that "spawn camping" is ok, then it's ok. If you are in someone elses server and they feel it isn't "OK", then play by their rules or find another server.

While this is just my humble opinion, others will agree to disagree with me. But, IRL, there is no such thing as spawn camping, you are there to kill the enemy where ever they are, including their main base of operations (i.e., spawn point).

[ofpcarnage 0]

No mate you wasn't spawn camping ......you can only be called that if you where actually sat inside the area that they spawn ....also when and if you enter the enemy's spawn or base you are shown up on their maps as a red dot making it easy for them to kill you.

If your on the recieving end of spawn camping its not much fun but hey deal with it .....normally I just take it slow and steady and fight my way out ...if I'm un-able to ...then congrats to the opposing team for keeping us all pinned in spawn

[Tinker 1]

This could be turned around with 2 good teams playing. Using comms and no respawn.

That will be the only way i will be playing in the future.

Agreed with comments on spawn camping though, team awareness should leave someone covering others spawning in maybe.

Tinker

[Hockeystick 0]

The guy who accused you was probably a poor looser

[BOTA:X 0]

You have the right to attack anyone in a zone that needs to be captured, or anyone shooting into a zone like that. Always.

Now on the flip side, I don't know whats going to happen when we get Team Death Match. Once one team reaches the other's spawn, what is to happen from there? In Domination the map ends. In TDM it will be a half hour laggy gernade fest. I hope they thought this through.

Edited July 29, 2006 by BOTA:X

[viiiper 0]

Statement of Facts:

I was in a zone adjacent to an enemy zone.

The front (the edge of my zone) was deep in enemy territory (i.e. we were winning).

I was by myself, with no comms.

After the initial push (of which I took part) I decided to take a defensive position (again, because I was by myself).

Is this spawn camping? Was I wrong?

It's really simple, if you knew you were killing the members of the other team in there

spawn, close to points of spawn, you are spawn camping or spawn killing.

If you allow them to exit there spawn or reach the outer edges of their spawn, away from the spawning points, then it's defending.

It all boils down to honour, if you play with honour you'll do the right thing, if you play with no honour you'll spawn kill & camp.

Only you will know, but by your statement it sounds like you were playing with consideration & honour.

viii

[Papa6 88]

I've seen people (red dots) enter our spawn from the start of the game. They go from their spawn and run to ours. there's all kinds of people in GRAW. give everyone one or two spawns. then they'll change as they'll be sick of being at max deaths...simple.

[Cangaroo.TNT 0]

I've seen people (red dots) enter our spawn from the start of the game. They go from their spawn and run to ours. there's all kinds of people in GRAW. give everyone one or two spawns. then they'll change as they'll be sick of being at max deaths...simple.

Yes, but in your opinion is the scenario described above "spawn camping." I died 0 times, so as you imply, I changed my tactic from offensive (the initial push) to defensive.

[ofpcarnage 0]

Cangaroo from what you described all you did was play tactfully and thoughtfully wich is how this game is supposed to be played with tactics....no point on just running in like rambo all your gonna do is die ....like you said you made the intial push along with everyone else then when you was deep in enemy territory you held your ground and waited for the enemy to make a mistake...since you then found yourself alone this was a wise choice . If I was on the recieving end of your shots then I would have simply chose a different path to your location instead of trying to take you headon because from the sounds of it you was dug in well and to just keep running out trying to nail you was plain stupid . And if a new approach to take you down failed then I'd simply congratulate you on a GG....(then I'd call you a spawn camping little weasel) <- only kidding lol

Best thing to do mate it just play the game in a style that suits you best and if others dont like it ....tough either adapt and conquer or sit there crying shouldn't make a difference to you mate ...more power to ya !!!

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

I've seen people (red dots) enter our spawn from the start of the game. They go from their spawn and run to ours. there's all kinds of people in GRAW. give everyone one or two spawns. then they'll change as they'll be sick of being at max deaths...simple.

That's what we do on our server... limited spawns. It keeps people from trying to get the most kills and gives them fear of running in the open.

Any server admin letting it go with unlimited respawns is asking for spawn raping... and encouraging it.

Same goes with deathmatch and above 16 players.

Edited July 29, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[th33f. 0]

ok, you could camp a spawn, or you could rape a spawn. there's quite a difference and the latter feels much more satisfying... i think of it as a reward for a well played round.

a spawn camper is usually the careful type of player, that simply ran out of targets and moved up as far ahead as he could. he finds a quiet spot, starts picking off the unsuspecting opponents that just spawned, and eventually gets taken out. annoying? yes. unfair in any way? hell no! if a game is in any way tactical, advancing and holding position is only natural... the thing is, it doesn't give the rest of the team any real advantage and can usually be categorized as an attempt to increase the player's kill count quicker. with GRAW there are variations as to how effectively you can camp the enemy spawn, like being on a border of 2 zones, or running around inerrupting the other teams supply lines.

as for the raping scenario, you usually can't do it alone. need a buddy, or at least a couple of friendlies acting as bait. if you're confident enough you can overrun the spawning team - go ahead! when done properly, the victims will have no chance to recover. that's what i call a rewarding victory...

of course, if the spawns are unlimited and you're still whining about getting killed at spawn - stop playing the game right now. it's not for you.

[IrishStout 0]

Hmmm.. I am no grammar major nor am I dictonary.. but doesn't the word domination imply to dominate? I was on with you last night on the same server and I am pretty sure i remember the map .. if it was Warehouse. We had all the zones covered with only one place left to gain full control of... yup... the opposing teams spawn...

I see no issue there... I also see no issue if you have a few gusy in the other teams spawn.. many time I might be in zone Echo and see that our spawn is littered wit hthe enemy.. I high tail it back on take them out from behind.. works almost everytime...

The times spawn raping is tough is when you have just started the match and the other team has direct sight into your spawn area and litters it with GL's as was the case on many maps in GR.. not so much on GRAW.. which is a good thing...

[RAbbi_74 4]

There is at least one map where ONE team's spawn is close enough to the next ADJACENT zone that they could be urinated-upon from it. By girls.

Maybe not, but you get the point (for once in RAbbi's miserable wrtiting career).

The bottom line is this, cangaroo: COULD YOU SEE ENEMY PLAYERS SPAWNING FROM YOUR POSITION? If so you were spawn camping. If not, then you weren't. Either way, I doubt you MEANT to, and your intention there seems sincere and tactically sound.

And a 7-0 run? GREAT WORK!

[Logos 0]

' date='Jul 29 2006, 12:38 AM' post='403913']

Was I wrong?

No, not at all.

I get this frequently, as well. People come to a tactical shooter, and they get upset if they can't run around at full speed and beat you with their well-honed twitch-reflexes. They're serious in their criticisms of you, but they're serious because they think that they're playing the game the way it should be played, that if you were playing the way they're playing, they could own you, and perhaps they could -- in Counterstrike. Not GR. Give them the finger, and keep killing the careless.

[viiiper 0]

I've seen people (red dots) enter our spawn from the start of the game. They go from their spawn and run to ours. there's all kinds of people in GRAW. give everyone one or two spawns. then they'll change as they'll be sick of being at max deaths...simple.

That's what we do on our server... limited spawns. It keeps people from trying to get the most kills and gives them fear of running in the open.

Any server admin letting it go with unlimited respawns is asking for spawn raping... and encouraging it.

Same goes with deathmatch and above 16 players.

Just to add to your comment Roco, over on the BDA server we have started

BANNING users that play in a manner not fitting. This inlcuded team killing & TS abuse.

viii

[=VR= CoupDgrace 0]

I think most [GR] players (or at least the ones that stuck w/ the game past teh first 6months) will agree that spawn killing is a valid tactic. If you can eliminate the enemy before they can get into action thats less people you have to worry about shooting at your team. (thus the inventions of artillary and airstrikes etc in military tactics) Especially in a limited spawn game! Also it demands that the enemy pull troops from the front to keep their spawn zone clear leaving your main assult with less to hinder their advance.

The individual criticizing you was most likely of the 14 y/o 'anyone killing me hax' variety. I wouldnt sweat it.

Edited July 29, 2006 by =VR= CoupDgrace

[=GsTA=FNG 0]

Just play with zero respawns.... then it's not an issue.

[ruggbutt 0]

What FNG said. I've never once heard anyone complain about spawncamping with one life per round.

[zulater 0]

What FNG said. I've never once heard anyone complain about spawncamping with one life per round.

5minnorespnosensor!!11!!

I agree. the only way you can get past spawn raping is to have no respawns. Spawn camping is lame but spawn raping is accepted. if they aren't going to move out and/or defend their zones you should bring the fight to them.

If anyone wants to see spawncamping i've got a replay of roco and some AFZ guys laying down at spawn and getting worked by me (sorry roco i just had to do it :D )

[RAbbi_74 4]

What FNG said. I've never once heard anyone complain about spawncamping with one life per round.

5minnorespnosensor!!11!!

I agree. the only way you can get past spawn raping is to have no respawns. Spawn camping is lame but spawn raping is accepted. if they aren't going to move out and/or defend their zones you should bring the fight to them.

If anyone wants to see spawncamping i've got a replay of roco and some AFZ guys laying down at spawn and getting worked by me (sorry roco i just had to do it :D )

HAHAHAHAHA!

That's cold.

[ROCO*AFZ* 0]

What FNG said. I've never once heard anyone complain about spawncamping with one life per round.

5minnorespnosensor!!11!!

I agree. the only way you can get past spawn raping is to have no respawns. Spawn camping is lame but spawn raping is accepted. if they aren't going to move out and/or defend their zones you should bring the fight to them.

If anyone wants to see spawncamping i've got a replay of roco and some AFZ guys laying down at spawn and getting worked by me (sorry roco i just had to do it :D )

LOL i have a replay of you also sitting in night docks in the house with your mm1... camping for the win as we tried to charge you out... after you said you hated campers

Ah memories of GR1 matches!

VIIPer...

You guys also play with limited respawns every time i have been there (in fact in the scrimmage... no spawns which rocked!)

[zulater 0]

What FNG said. I've never once heard anyone complain about spawncamping with one life per round.

5minnorespnosensor!!11!!

I agree. the only way you can get past spawn raping is to have no respawns. Spawn camping is lame but spawn raping is accepted. if they aren't going to move out and/or defend their zones you should bring the fight to them.

If anyone wants to see spawncamping i've got a replay of roco and some AFZ guys laying down at spawn and getting worked by me (sorry roco i just had to do it :D )

LOL i have a replay of you also sitting in night docks in the house with your mm1... camping for the win as we tried to charge you out... after you said you hated campers

Ah memories of GR1 matches!

VIIPer...

You guys also play with limited respawns every time i have been there (in fact in the scrimmage... no spawns which rocked!)

That was after that new rule of kill em all. but yeah i hid in the building and then killed you guys off one by one and got the win.

only difference is that our whole team didn't lay down at the spawn

[RAbbi_74 4]

That building in the upper-middle of the map, just across the parking lot form the fuel tanks?

I avoided that place like the plague. I was never any good indoors in [GR]. Too slow on the nade/gun switch...