th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 and if they don't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-|-aMMo-|- Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 new game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dannik Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Play with people I know. Worked for [GR], for me. Sure, it kept me out of many servers, but it also got me into many more. Not the solution most people would want, but there are some out there who prefer the common sense solution over technological. Doesn't change the fact that GRAW does need some technological assistance in this situation. Just no punkbuster, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 While this is the A/C discussion, it's meant to lean more towards how we as a community should set it up, not what or if GRIN will give us the tools we need. It's about the community coming together and working on a solution together. That's where people are missing the entire point of this discussion area. Please keep it to topics related to what we as a community can do. Here are some examples: Master Ban List Master Ban List Repository Master Ban List Auto-Update Community Involvement to counter cheaters and ban them from our server. Assisting others on the setup of external 3rd party A/C types of system. These are the kinds of things this area is about. IT IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT GRIN GIVES US THE TOOLS, IT IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT THE A/C WORKS, AND IT'S NOT ABOUT WHO IS OR ISN'T CHEATING. So, do not confuse this for anything else other than the 'SETUP' of how the community is to handle it as a community. Failing to see this will lead to more ridiculous threads of... "The A/C SUCKS!" "The A/C doesn't catch the cheaters" "This and that person are cheating!" Keep it on topic, keep it related to how we as a community should move from this point on and be involved as a community as how "WE" handle the cheaters. The A/C is only 1/10th of what we can do as a community. Some words of wisdom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-|-aMMo-|- Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) well you cant really ban anyone without the tools from GRiN So what GRiN hands out has a large impact on weither a AC community is even possible. Edited July 17, 2006 by -|-aMMo-|- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 It would mean that we as a community would have to come up with a way to integrate our own A/C tools... It's not entirely impossible... There are probably some great programmers here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-|-aMMo-|- Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I dont know, you would have to atleast be able to log the corresponding IPs and names. Then you could put them in a firewall. Problem is though... if you create a community of banlists, you need proof to show they were cheating. I guess the only way as of now to prove that would be using FRAPs. But you would have to make sure your banning the right IP, people could be masking with other peoples names. But IPs arent a good way to ban, its so easy to change. You need to be able to ban by cd-key/guid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm not the guru of this... You are getting into the tech side of it. I'm sure that someone can do it if it came down to it. At a minimum, GRIN could at least give us a log with player name, GUID, and IP address and a way to ban it by 1 or all 3 if we choose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Agree with you 100% Angel but we will need some help from GRIN/UBI. LIke you said at minimum we need to be able to log a players name, ip and cd-key of some type or a guid associated with their cd-key as in PB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 I'm not the guru of this... You are getting into the tech side of it. I'm sure that someone can do it if it came down to it. At a minimum, GRIN could at least give us a log with player name, GUID, and IP address and a way to ban it by 1 or all 3 if we choose. perhaps i asked the question in my post too early... unfortunately, will and dedication isn't everything. i have a feeling that Dannik's suggestion would be the most suitable solution for the situation we've got... as far as GRIN producing the tools you mentioned, i would be really hesitant to give the server admins power to ban, without ANY way of proving the fault whatsoever. so, i'm sorry, but it looks like there's no hope without GRIN's help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 You can have local bans and then you have anti-cheat bans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 i just don't get it... bans based on what? there isn't even a spectator mode. unless we get some way to identify the cheats in the next patch, i say it's time for a PB petition... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I guess you don't understand what a 'Local Ban' is compared to an Anti-Cheat Ban? I'll explain... Local ban is if you've got someone on your server who is TK'ing purposely or causing other trouble, so you ban them. An Anti-Cheat ban, bans them globally throughout all the servers that are running the anti-cheat system. There is a spectator mode, if you die, press a number and you can follow along and look through another players eyes. At least that's how it works in Co-Op mode. This would be a nice feature for a server administrator to be able to do... He can follow along with a player by selecting them on a player list in SADS and follow the player along looking through that players screen. I like tihs idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-|-aMMo-|- Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Well even without real AC global bans, I think the ability for a server admin to local ban should be put in regardless. They need to be able to ban disruptive players. If global AC bans arent put in, admins could create a community to review bans and create banlists.(The community should be made if theres global AC bans too) Of course it would be hard to prove who is cheating as it is now, but by using FRAPs you could record some obvious ones. Though it would be ideal to have replays, and client screenshots like PB. I think the server admins deserve the power to ban "No matter what", its their server, they pay for it and they should be able to ban anyone they damn well feel like it for any reason they want. Edited July 17, 2006 by -|-aMMo-|- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Angel, co-op is irrelevant. cheaters don't do co-op. with what you're suggesting, i foresee every decent player eventually being accused and banned, at least once. the teamkill limit option is already there, they just need to fix it. other than that there is absolutely no reason to give admins the ban ability, except maybe to to control foul language. though it seems to me that you won't see that kind of behavior very often in GRAW, based purely on the cost of hardware required to run the damn game. in any case, we should have a votekick command for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Angel, co-op is irrelevant. cheaters don't do co-op. with what you're suggesting, i foresee every decent player eventually being accused and banned, at least once. the teamkill limit option is already there, they just need to fix it. other than that there is absolutely no reason to give admins the ban ability, except maybe to to control foul language. though it seems to me that you won't see that kind of behavior very often in GRAW, based purely on the cost of hardware required to run the damn game. in any case, we should have a votekick command for that... Okay... so you've got this foul mouthed jerk who's TK'ing your teammates, and you can't ban him locally from your own server? I hope that I'm reading that part wrong, but that's the impression I'm getting. A local ban has nothing to do with the A/C ban at all... But, they both do similar things. A local ban will not get put on any list other than on that server that banned the player and 'WILL NOT' be a global ban. An A/C ban will ban them entirely from any server that is running A/C on it, which is a global ban. Further edification: Local Ban - your server only Global A/C Ban - all servers running A/C Does that help clear it up for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 so apart from TK'ing, you'd only ban those who curse? you didn't convince me. i'm sure GRIN would rather take care of the TK limit kick, than give us a ban button. it's simply useless without its counterpart - the anti cheat utility itself. it will be nothing but abused... i think that's about it for my 2 cents on this subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FI_FlimFlam Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) Th33f, local ban are an absolute necessity in todays world of anonimity of the internet. Have you ever hosted a 24/7 server? If you have I cannot believe that you have never had 1 single giefer come in and absolutely wreck the game for everyone while they are there. That's when a local ban is absolutely necessary. As far a abuse, word of mouth does pretty well if there is an abusive server out there, word gets around and people don't want to play there. If you have abusive admins, you probalby wouldn't want to be trying to get back in the server just to keep getting abuse from them. Their local ban won't affect you from playing on other servers so I don't understand your problem with allowing people to ban problem players off their servers. What you're asking for is a free pass for any and all griefers in your server if you host one and no way to keep them out. A shared banlist from an AC is another story. What people are asking for is to have a community group review submissions of people suspected of cheating and then have them put on a list that can be shared among server admins participating in that community to keep those "known cheaters" out of their servers. This has worked quite well in other games. The key thing is preventing abuse by one or a few admins in the community and keeping things as objective as possible when voting. The more people active in the community can will keep it that way. Edited July 17, 2006 by FI_FlimFlam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulaski Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Doesn't change the fact that GRAW does need some technological assistance in this situation. Just no punkbuster, please? Why no Punkbuster? It has everything you are talking about in this thread, with a community to help. Most of the top FPS playing today are using PB, Battlefield series, COD series, AA, Quake series and more.... Without question it's the best AC out today and a great tool for server admins like myself. AW needs somethings big to bring in more players and adding PB would help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 Doesn't change the fact that GRAW does need some technological assistance in this situation. Just no punkbuster, please? Why no Punkbuster? It has everything you are talking about in this thread, with a community to help. Most of the top FPS playing today are using PB, Battlefield series, COD series, AA, Quake series and more.... Without question it's the best AC out today and a great tool for server admins like myself. AW needs somethings big to bring in more players and adding PB would help. agreed. at this point, with no support from GRIN on this, it seems like the best... no, the only option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
}PW{ Postal Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 Do we even have any info on what GRIN plans on for further measures of anti cheat and server options for banning and such? I like the idea of this thread but we need ALL the info from GRIN before we decide to take things into our own hands on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Smith Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 I have DoD: S, which is what I've been playing while waiting out for the July patch to roll around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToW-Angel Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 (edited) so apart from TK'ing, you'd only ban those who curse? you didn't convince me. i'm sure GRIN would rather take care of the TK limit kick, than give us a ban button. it's simply useless without its counterpart - the anti cheat utility itself. it will be nothing but abused... i think that's about it for my 2 cents on this subject. You have failed both times to know the difference between a LOCAL ban, which is only that server, compared to a GLOBAL ban, which is all servers. There comes a point that no matter how hard I try to explain the difference, even breaking it down to the simplest of terms, you will never understand. For even a greater clarification, being a server admin should give me the right to kick and ban whomever I choose, LOCALLY and only on MY SERVER. I believe that if the A/C catches someone with a cheat, it automatically bans them. SS's, Replays (if available), log files and whatever else is available should be turned in if you suspect a cheater for review. If they are not cheating, move on. If they are cheating, they get put on a master ban list. I should have the right to ban someone who is causing any kind of problems in my server. Whether it be foul lanugage, intentionally TK's, mouthing off to anyone, continuous accusing someone of cheating in my server and after repeated warnings that if they don't shut up and play right, I have the right to ban that person as I see fit on MY SERVER. Sure, there will be people who will abuse this, but I believe a majority will use it as it is intended on their own personal servers that they host or rent. Edited July 17, 2006 by ToW-Angel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bota:16 Posted July 17, 2006 Share Posted July 17, 2006 @ Th33f When you admin a server you are paying your own money to have that server hosted sometimes upwards of $200 a month. If someone is causing problems on it, server admins need the ability and should ban people who are bgs. This does not effect ANY OTHER server out there only the one. Apparently you have never been an admin on a online gaming server. If you have you would understand how many [idiots] there are out there and whos personal goal is to ruin everything they touch. Trust me BANS ARE GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY. Sure you will get someone who abuses it but if it's their server well they can do whatever they want. Their money and nobody elses. Word of mouth (forums) usually lets people know what servers to stay away from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
th33f. Posted July 17, 2006 Author Share Posted July 17, 2006 @ Th33f When you admin a server you are paying your own money to have that server hosted sometimes upwards of $200 a month. If someone is causing problems on it, server admins need the ability and should ban people who are bgs. This does not effect ANY OTHER server out there only the one. Apparently you have never been an admin on a online gaming server. If you have you would understand how many [idiots] there are out there and whos personal goal is to ruin everything they touch. Trust me BANS ARE GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY. Sure you will get someone who abuses it but if it's their server well they can do whatever they want. Their money and nobody elses. Word of mouth (forums) usually lets people know what servers to stay away from. yea, surprisingly enough i _have_ been an admin to a server, that my squad and i paid for, as well as a server awarded to us for winning a TCZ tourney a few years back. i know exactly how the local bans work. i also happen to be up to date on the way the so-called local ban lists are shared between server admins, and eventually all of the local banlists are merged into a list that every decent server uses. so there is a very fine line between being banned from a single server and not being able to play online, especially for those with a permanent network IP. given the tightness of this here community, i know for a fact this will occur to innocent players, mostly to those who could aim a rifle... i'm sure the devs already _have_ considered including the ban feature prior to the release and in the following patches, and it looks like they're in a silent agreement with me. i do hope you get your button though, just make sure you're up 24/7 to admin your precious servers and not let a single cheater/TK'er/smacktard slip through the hands of justice. better yet, password your server and have your peace of mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.