Anti-Cheat Group & Website

[MILAR]

well Im open to any ideas at this point. I can do anything from a RA standpoint since I own it.

Thier is nothing binding anything on how I or RA does anything, We always stood for gg;'s for the community.

I dont care if we all came together started a new branch for GRAW that was what I wanted to do anyway. RVS is set in stone pretty much, but GRAW is a totaly different animal.

I think the guys here and the admins for clans can contribute. But for now not much we can do. But we can start to lay a foundation on what is to come. It would be nice to hear from a GRIN dev that can lead us in the right direction.

[ToW-Angel]

well Im open to any ideas at this point. I can do anything from a RA standpoint since I own it.

Thier is nothing binding anything on how I or RA does anything, We always stood for gg;'s for the community.

I dont care if we all came together started a new branch for GRAW that was what I wanted to do anyway. RVS is set in stone pretty much, but GRAW is a totaly different animal.

I think the guys here and the admins for clans can contribute. But for now not much we can do. But we can start to lay a foundation on what is to come. It would be nice to hear from a GRIN dev that can lead us in the right direction.

I am definitely there with you. We, as a community, have to come together and start laying the foundation of for the community as a whole.

Site Admins/Staff, should only be there to moderate, make sure things don't get out of control and maintain order for the forums, not be involved in anything else. Then the community as a whole (server admins who know what they are doing) should be the ones submitting things to the interal private community and not publically. What this will do is keep the accusations and most of the eternal bickering down to a minimum.

If the group decides that the person is cheating, they get add to a master ban list, then put in the hall of shame.

[MILAR]

well the way we added people to the banlist we had to have proof. accusations dont hold water since thier are way to many variables in MP gaming that can be misleading. We wrote 1k's of cvars and md5 checks that were logged and we used Fraps that were voted on through a network of admins to decide. it was very effective and we took out alot of cheaters from the game.

But at this point we have no idea what GRIN has to offer for us to do anything of that magnitude. I really hope they give us something to work with, for one it will benefiet the community and especially when the ladders kick off it will help. TDM is what the teams want. TO ensure gg's we need tools, we need the community to ban together as well. This happened in RVS and it worked, very well I might add.

[intelfactor]

Respected admins do and have done a great job keeping cheaters out of Raven Shield with their Supplemental Ban List (SBL) and are also pretty damn good in uncovering banned cheaters with new cd keys with who knows what they use. Today they are the mosted hated anti-cheat community by infamous cheat writers on the MPC website. RA is very organized I might add and I will support and appreciate their efforts if/when they decide to take on the scum of GR:AW.

Kudos to them.

Edited July 16, 2006 by intelfactor

[Logos]

But, I do believe that it should be knowledgeable people who do the voting.

Knowledgeable, and with X-Fi soundcards.

[CkZWarlord]

Does someone know someone over there and ask them?

If not, then we are left to our own devices to figure it out for ourselves.

What does [GR] use for A/C?

[GR] used a community-made anti-cheat called KidBuster. After the KB project was stopped the source code was given to TAGaming.com for further development. TAGaming.com handed the code out to a Chilean team called =LT= that is currently still developing it.

Latest update

Also check here at the bottom of the left hand menu.

EDIT: If GR:AW is ever going to have replays (must add here that I personally have given up hope on this) then I am willing to do replay viewing. I have plenty of experience with [GR], being a replay admin for TAGaming.com for a long time now.

Edited July 16, 2006 by CkZWarlord

[ToW-Angel]

Does someone know someone over there and ask them?

If not, then we are left to our own devices to figure it out for ourselves.

What does [GR] use for A/C?

[GR] used a community-made anti-cheat called KidBuster. After the KB project was stopped the source code was given to TAGaming.com for further development. TAGaming.com handed the code out to a Chilean team called =LT= that is currently still developing it.

Latest update

Also check here at the bottom of the left hand menu.

EDIT: If GR:AW is ever going to have replays (must add here that I personally have given up hope on this) then I am willing to do replay viewing. I have plenty of experience with [GR], being a replay admin for TAGaming.com for a long time now.

Let's hope that they give us the tools we truly need to counter cheating.

[intelfactor]

What about replays?

Due to the way the game is made we will not have replays. Remember, with the use of physics in game, we will not be able to. We would have to save ungodly amounts of data to recreate a replay, even if it is not recorded as a completely rendered scene.

http://www.ghostrecon.net/html/interview-grin-2.htm

If any of you haven't read the interview, this should answer everyone's question about replays.

[FI_FlimFlam]

Good to see you here Milar. And I'm glad that you are looking forward to supporting GRAW in RA. I am also glad that you are looking to start it from the ground up. I think that with the experience of RA and the website and structure already in place most of the ground work is in place to get the ball rolling once we know what tools we have at our disposal. If some people need to feel like they need to join RA before the tools are available perhaps we should start discussing things like membership reqs and submissions regardless of format in a general way.

Things like members should or shouldn't only be server admins of GRAW. Voting open to only members/admins or open to the public. Things like that. I think we should open a separate forum for this discussion.

I would gladly host such a forum on our team's website or maybe RA would be able to host. This would be a place to discuss just the formation of the AC Admin Group RA:GRAW or whatever you want to call it. It would probably be a better vehicle for the discussion than one thread here. That way different topics can be discussed more easily and logically.

I could have the forum set up this afternoon if people are in favor of it.

Intelfactor - - well we will have to wait and see what they do decide on the AC. Maybe not replays but perhaps SS's. Or maybe something else. Remember they said no AA, and they came up with a form of it. But as has been said before making decisions regarding what to do with what format is premature as that we might not even have it in the final AC.

Edited July 16, 2006 by FI_FlimFlam

[Ikillintel]

KB, I can't recall everything, but I remember getting on too play and seeing ppl on the team were using it (I think it actually became a requirement or a option for teams to use it on TCZ or Fragpin?) just as suddenly as we started using it we got rid of it, cause it didnt work.

=LT= ACP I dont know how or if anymore work continued on this app, but had it wasn't working, caused problems with the game, lost interest in [GR], haven't looked back since.

That was a few yrs ago (or at least it feels like yrs)

Hats off to those that tried to AC [GR]. If their is a working AC for it plz post it /pm me here or contact me on Xfire ( ikillintel). Thanks.

[ToW-Angel]

Good post, FlimFlam... I agree with you once again!

We definitely need a place to start discussing it whether or not we have the tools in hand yet.

I can also have a site up in a matter of a few minutes too... But, if this is something that RA is going to be involved in, then I agree that it should be at RA.

If RA is not going to get involved, then let's look at hosting something somewhere. But, I get the strong feeling that Milar is going to do this, so I'm not worried there.

I am willing to invest some of my free time to participate in discussions, and I feel just like FlimFlam does that one thread is not enough of a way to proper discuss everything.

Milar, maybe you can setup a subdomain? Something like http://graw.respectedadmins.com ? Then setup a set of forums that way?

[DoubleArd]

http://www.team-srs.com

they were there for [GR] and may be there for GRAW if it ever takes off.

Is that the gang that was formed from the original GR official forum?

I remember the talk about it but didn't realise it actually came to fruition

[FI_FlimFlam]

Well I don't know if he's ready or the discussion has reached the point for an official subdomain just yet. But a separate forum would definitely be quite usefull at this point. Even here at GR.net it would be useful to be able to add input. Once the framework and how the group will be setup and called will be better than jumping the gun on something like a subdomain especially if it's decided not to go that route or even be a part of RA. I'm just saying lets get a place to talk about it first. If Milar wants to do that then great but I don't think it's a requirement at this point since it would take a bit more work than just setting up a new forum section on an existing website.

I think RA has it set up that you have to be members to even see their forums - if memory serves correctly. That was why I mostly offered our forums up because you can veiw them anonamously if you don't want to post.

[ToW-Angel]

I can easily add in some more forums on the GR:AW Manual Site that I set up a couple of days ago. Plus, we do have GRIN visiting also.

[CkZWarlord]

KB, I can't recall everything, but I remember getting on too play and seeing ppl on the team were using it (I think it actually became a requirement or a option for teams to use it on TCZ or Fragpin?) just as suddenly as we started using it we got rid of it, cause it didnt work.

=LT= ACP I dont know how or if anymore work continued on this app, but had it wasn't working, caused problems with the game, lost interest in [GR], haven't looked back since.

That was a few yrs ago (or at least it feels like yrs)

Hats off to those that tried to AC [GR]. If their is a working AC for it plz post it /pm me here or contact me on Xfire ( ikillintel). Thanks.

=LT=ACP is from THIS year... a few years ago ... and it stops a lot of common cheats at that... true... in the beginning there were a few problems for some people but it is pretty darn smooth now.

[MILAR]

Actually Flim the forums at RA are already set up for GRAW and it doesnt require a membership just to be registered to discuss anything in the GRAW forums, I have setup a meeting with the guys for us to discuss a gameplan.

This is what im thinking at the moment is to talk to the guys here at GR.net and see if we can co-exist in some sort of AC enviorment here. It would have our backing and instead of re-directing to my site is to let the community come together here first.

I really dont know at this point. It would be nice to hear from one of the devs of GRIN to give us a heads up as to what or how we can get this started. For we dont have a clus as to what kind of tools they plan of giving the server admins once the dedicated files are released.

But its good to hear the community hear starting to ramp up to having a communty based AC type of team. It will benefiet everyone. It has to start somewhere, might as well be here.

But for know here is my post to the guys at RA, feel free to start posting here

http://www.respectedadmins.com/forums/inde...p?showtopic=526

You will have to register with the site but you can post there freely.

Edited July 16, 2006 by MILAR_BDA

[ToW-Angel]

So, what is the plan exactly at the moment? Discuss it over at RA or here? If we are to do it here, then Rocky would have to setup some forum areas so that we can discuss it.

That's where I'm at right now... Where are we can or going to be discussing it?

I don't want to go between 2 different sites just to discuss it, that's for sure.

[MILAR]

For now we can do it at RA in the GRAW forums until we hear from GR.net

[ToW-Angel]

Let me see if I can't get a hold of Rocky before we say one way or another? Sound good?

If Rocky can set it up here, then we won't have to transfer discussions from RA to here, or vice-versa.

Edited July 16, 2006 by ToW-Angel

[FI_FlimFlam]

For now we can do it at RA in the GRAW forums until we hear from GR.net

Thanks Milar I'll be in later this evening.

[Rocky]

I can set it up here if you folks would like to keep it centralised in one place.

If someone could PM me the required forum structure (i.e. just one AC forum, or some sub forums too?), whether you want it public at this stage, or restricted to specified individuals.

Once I have those details I'll set it up right away.

[Rocky]

Anti Cheat forum now open as a subforum to this forum. You can see it at the very top of the GRAW PC forum, or listed on the main index.

[Lightspeed]

A quick question before I involve myself in this discussion, and think about it before you replay. Can you seriously see yourself playing this game in the distant future, say 6 months to one year from now?

Are there other games that will draw you away from GRAW?

If the next patch doesnt resolve all the issues that you still have with the game will you give up on it?

If the answer to these questions leave the majority of players doubting that they will be playing this game a long way down the track, then I think in a sense, all the effort to try to stop cheaters might just be in vain.

If on the other hand, you think a lot of players and Leagues will continue to play/support the game then it is worth getting serious about.

AS yet I personally am unconvinced that there is long term playability in this game even without a decent AC, and unless the patch fixes unresolved issues, and draws lots of players who have given up or not bothered with GRAW, into the Servers then I dont see the point. If the patch makes the game a serious MP game for the future then Im all for developing adequate Cheat Ban Lists to protect the legit players.

[ToW-Angel]

You answers will vary from person to person...

I definitely don't plan on giving this game up in 6 months... It's the best game I've ever played. If you've played JO exclusively for 3yrs, then moved over to this game, you can see why I've came to this conclusion.

Whether or not the A/C is functional I will still be playing it, even if I have to lock it down.

[VeLocityChaos]

A quick question before I involve myself in this discussion, and think about it before you replay. Can you seriously see yourself playing this game in the distant future, say 6 months to one year from now?

Are there other games that will draw you away from GRAW?

If the next patch doesnt resolve all the issues that you still have with the game will you give up on it?

If the answer to these questions leave the majority of players doubting that they will be playing this game a long way down the track, then I think in a sense, all the effort to try to stop cheaters might just be in vain.

If on the other hand, you think a lot of players and Leagues will continue to play/support the game then it is worth getting serious about.

AS yet I personally am unconvinced that there is long term playability in this game even without a decent AC, and unless the patch fixes unresolved issues, and draws lots of players who have given up or not bothered with GRAW, into the Servers then I dont see the point. If the patch makes the game a serious MP game for the future then Im all for developing adequate Cheat Ban Lists to protect the legit players.

I agree with you and the concern. However, I think a good AC in this game would actually counter what you are fearing. I think the presence of an AC would actually bring in a good amount of players. But, thats only if the MP becomes exceptional with this next patch. Thats why I had said earlier that It might be alittle too soon for this. I guess the best thing about this game only having a few players right now. Is the fact that its certainly not the most attractive game out right now for cheaters.

I strongly believe that the next patch will make or break this game. If the patch does turn out to be everything that we have wanted. Then the AC ideas and progression will have been very worthwhile.

Again, I do think that it might be alittle to soon to actually go full fledged and spend tons of time on this subject. I think its cool to give it alittle discussion and be prepared though.