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my faith is waning on GRAW


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In fact, I will no longer refer to this new game as GRAW. From now on, I will simply call it ... "AW". I do not feel that it deserves the GR title and therefore, I am removing it.

Exactly what I have been saying... Finally some more people are starting to realize what is wrong with this game...

QUOTE(SillyHalfMexican @ Jun 30 2006, 12:51 AM)

GR2 is pretty different from GR1.

Yes it is pretty different, but it still FEELS like a Ghost Recon game, GR:AW just doesn't and that is the problem that I have with it. GR:AW feels more like a mix between BF2 and CS. It doesn't deserve the "GR" prefix because of this IMHO. That doesn't make it a bad game, it just makes it a bad Ghost Recon episode.

But I am not ready to give up on AW just yet, I give GRiN the benefit of the doubt. To me, they have yet to prove themselves, and therefore I am willing to give them a reasonable chance. Just because UBI stuffed them on the release date, and therefore AW being incomplete, I am going to give GRiN every chance to make things right.

Edited by CkZWarlord
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Janie, not to be rude at all, but you have alot to learn about Ubi if you think for one second they planned on giving us a full game at release. They were too busy putting all their money into Xbox 360 GRAW since that was where the money was at. No competition, and a new system was all they needed to hear to put $'s in their eyes. Also the stand behind, or push them down thing is just a saying. Standing behind them, does include complaining about bugs in hopes they get fixed, and other negative things, as long as it is usefull in moving forward. Stop reading things so literally.

My analogy of the proffesor thing was good, as even you are showing it would not be fair for him to assign a paper that quickly and ask for good results. Your right, it would not happen in the world of school, but in the world of video game making this is a common thing, make a game as fast as you can and patch it later to appease the crowd. Espeacially with Ubi.

Law - great post, eventhough I disagree with alot of what you said, and towards the end, you yourself turned into a immature gamer who joined in on the shouting match. But I should thank you for joining us pond scum, who post here in hopes of making the game better.

Edited by Judge_Recluse
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My analogy of the proffesor thing was good, as even you are showing it would not be fair for him to assign a paper that quickly and ask for good results. Your right, it would not happen in the world of school, but in the world of video game making this is a common thing, make a game as fast as you can and patch it later to appease the crowd. Espeacially with Ubi.

No it wasn't judge... people don't think games are automatically worth an "F". That's nonsense. The point is though that as far as a game from the Ghost Recon branche is concerned, AW doesn't deserve more though. AW is not a bad game, it is just not Ghost Recon (as in the branche).

Edited by CkZWarlord
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I think I will post this out so people understand where im coming from. The way I typed it is not exactly the way it should be, but I did not want to sit and type all day on the subject.

The Proffesor (Ubi) gives a homework assignment to you (GRIN). It is a 100 page essay (GRAW) and is due the next day (14 months). You do the best you can in the time alotted, and turn it in (release of GRAW). The people grading your homework ( Gamers ) are not happy with it, since it contains spelling errors (bugs) and not a real story line ( Content ). You get an "F" ( bad reviews ) on the paper. Now the Professor say you have the summer to fix ( updates for te game ) the paper. If at the end of that time the paper is still bad, then the you keep the "F", but if it is fixed you get a better grade depending on the fixes.

Is it the perfect anology? not really, but it does get the point across. If a person or group of people are given an impossible task to complete in a short amount of time, you cant expect good things.

I like GRAW, and hope it does get better with time.

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I have something to say.

Before anyone makes note of me only having one post - let me explain. I have been with GR since the beginning. Yes, the beginning. I was even playing the RB6 series since its inception. I venture to say that I have possibly logged more hours on the [GR] than any 5 players in this forum combined. Yes, I do have a life and a pretty good one at that. But I truly loved the first GR. Still do. GRAW is not GR.

The reason that I only have one post is because I do not (usually) post in forums. The reason? Most forums, regardless of good intentions, turn into an internet shouting match between immature players. Most of which do not know what they are talking about not have any information to prove or back-up their claims.

UBI has sent most of the true PC GR fans on an emotional rollercoster over the past few years. I am amazed that they have any support left whatsoever. First, the long wait from GR1 to the release of GR2. Oh yeah, wait a minute .... that never happened.

I personally feel that UBI NEVER had any intentions of releasing GR2 for the PC. But they kept telling us that it was almost ready. Then, delayed. So we waited another month ... delayed again. We waited another month .... delayed again. The whole time we are waiting, we are assuming that they are working on it. So, we waited and we waited and we waited ... finally they announced that it was not being released for the PC at all !! I could hear the foundation start to crack in the GR Community. Betrayl was whispered among many of the true "hard core" GR players. I was one of them. And my suspecions proved to be true.

UBI, instead, choose to only release GR2 for the console gamers. Then, we (the PC gamers) were told that GR2 was not released for the PC because they wanted to give us "more". They said that they wanted to release a Ghost Recon that was up to our standards. So .... we wait, and wait and wait .... then, as if God, himself, spoke to us ... UBI announces the release of GRAW. Wow, even I was excited (I must admit). Still cautious, but very excited.

I even pre-ordered 5 copies of GRAW for me and the rest of my group. When the local shop we ordered from did not receive their copies on time, we all paid for the game again and downloaded it (legally from Direct 2 Drive).

At first, I was pleased. Not over thrown, like I expected or should have been. Just pleased. But hey, even the first GR has some issues when it was released. I was willing to give it a chance. After all, I had already been waiting for 5 years. What would another month or so hurt?

Soon after entering the map editor, I realized that this game (although boasting the Ghost Recon name) was not and never will be Ghost Recon. Still though, I did take the time (approx 150 hours) and made 5 very good maps. The editor was laiden with bugs and glitches. Many of my maps had to be done and re-done numerous times before final complettion. I realized after I had finished my 5th map .... wow, there are not any more maps that I can make !! What I mean by this, is that the editor is very "cookie cutter" in nature. There is no terrain generator and the LEGO piecies that were given to us are just that .... LEGO piecies. If I were to make another map, it would have to much the same as one of the other 5 maps that I had just finished. There is a very limited selection of buildings, object, props, and terrain.

I have not released my maps and probably never will. I realize that many of you could care less and that is fine. In truth, if I feel this way, then there are others who must feel the same way. For those of you who have just arrived here in the GR world you cannot understand what this means. Ignorance is bliss. I envy you.

The [GR] is still being played for several reasons. One is because the game is solid and was, overall, just a good, fun game. Reason two is because the mod community supported the game and made new maps, new weapons, new game types and new characters. It kept the game fresh and interesting. I truly do not see this happening with GRAW. If it does not - then it will die!

In fact, I will no longer refer to this new game as GRAW. From now on, I will simply call it ... "AW". I do not feel that it deserves the GR title and therefore, I am removing it.

Simply put ... I am willing to give AW only one more chance. If MAJOR changes and improvements are not made, then I (along with thousands of other GR supporter) are gone!

In fact, I have recently come across an older game - FarCry. Now, FarCry itself is not my bag. However, it has been modded by a group called the Polishing Weevles. They have transformed the faster paced FC into more of a tactical shooter - very much like the [GR]. If you want to see some real "hard core" GR fans, then you need to check out their mod of FarCry. It is called Obsidian Edge. It is closer to the [GR] then GRAW will ever be.

I cannot stress this enough .... if YOU are a true GR fan, then you MUST check our the Obsidian Edge mod for FarCry. I love it. And as I have already stated, I was possibly the biggest fan of [GR] in the world.

The mod team for Obsidian Edge (OE) is now in works with Crytech and they have their hands directly in the new game - Crysis. Within a few months of Crysis release, the new OE2 Mod will also be released. I have not seen much of it yet, but I can already tell you that it will BLOW AW out of the water.

In fact, after typing out this manifesto, I just realized that I am DONE with AW. Why would I play a game that is not what I like? .... The answer is simply and true for many of you. Memories and Emotion. Yes, you still have ties to [GR]. Wake up. AW is not GR.

Come with me to the dark side. All I ask is that you try the OE Mod for FarCry and I promise, you will see what I have seen. The 'real' GR is now known by a different name.

GR:OE. I stand here as the first of many who will come to realize this.

You may read this and immediatley dismiss what I have said. That is fine. I was just like you a few months ago. Eventually, one night, while you are home playing AW, something will happen that makes you finally realize .... hey, this is not what I want. Then, all I can ask of you, is that you at least give OE a try. You will never have to admit that I was right and that you were stubborn and wrong. We will let all that be water under the bridge.

I will get my revenge anyway. By the time you admit, realize and actually buy FC with the OE Mod, I will be light years ahead of you and I will slaughter you over and over and over again. This will be my satisfaction.

I have gone on far to long and I apologize. I guess this is what happens when you wait so long before posting in a forum. At any rate, I hope you had the attention span and love of the [GR] to read the entire post and now you may join me and my group in GR:OE. I truly hope to see you there. BTW - we did just put up a dedicated OE Server. Feel free to join us there for some GR game play.

LAW, it would be impossible for me to agree with you anymore. I feel exactly the same way and share the same emotion you do. Good post.. Much Respect.

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I think I will post this out so people understand where im coming from. The way I typed it is not exactly the way it should be, but I did not want to sit and type all day on the subject.

The Proffesor (Ubi) gives a homework assignment to you (GRIN). It is a 100 page essay (GRAW) and is due the next day (14 months). You do the best you can in the time alotted, and turn it in (release of GRAW). The people grading your homework ( Gamers ) are not happy with it, since it contains spelling errors (bugs) and not a real story line ( Content ). You get an "F" ( bad reviews ) on the paper. Now the Professor say you have the summer to fix ( updates for te game ) the paper. If at the end of that time the paper is still bad, then the you keep the "F", but if it is fixed you get a better grade depending on the fixes.

Is it the perfect anology? not really, but it does get the point across. If a person or group of people are given an impossible task to complete in a short amount of time, you cant expect good things.

I like GRAW, and hope it does get better with time.

Yeah, you need to be careful when using analogys around here...there are a select few that just cant look past the content of it and see the point in it, so instead of asking what the point was they just rip it apart.

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Law, if you want to talk about OE, then go to the appropriate forum for where OE and OE 2 is talked about. This blatant off topic discussion about a mod that has nothing to do with GR:AW is not welcomed in this forum. :nono:

Thread cleaned out of OE discussion, except for the initial post by LAW that does start out with GR:AW then promotes OE. Seeing that I'm in a generous mood right now, I won't be editing any of that.

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Law, if you want to talk about OE, then go to the appropriate forum for where OE and OE 2 is talked about. This blatant off topic discussion about a mod that has nothing to do with GR:AW is not welcomed in this forum. :nono:

I'll be cleaning out this thread shortly.

:stupid: SHE is the "REAL" law here... HEHEHE GIRL POWER! HOOOOOOOAH! :)

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GRAW lost me with the "June" patch. Whether it was GRIN or UBI, whoever thought that DM was a fun game to play shows that the game is going in a very bad direction. DM is one of the worst MP gametypes i've ever played. Does not say much for the planning of the patches or the future of this game.

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GRAW lost me with the "June" patch. Whether it was GRIN or UBI, whoever thought that DM was a fun game to play shows that the game is going in a very bad direction. DM is one of the worst MP gametypes i've ever played. Does not say much for the planning of the patches or the future of this game.

if it is the worst you have played (DM) ...... then it will only get better with COOP and TDM on the way with the promiss of [GR] gametypes it is your loss

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GRAW lost me with the "June" patch. Whether it was GRIN or UBI, whoever thought that DM was a fun game to play shows that the game is going in a very bad direction. DM is one of the worst MP gametypes i've ever played. Does not say much for the planning of the patches or the future of this game.

if it is the worst you have played (DM) ...... then it will only get better with COOP and TDM on the way with the promiss of [GR] gametypes it is your loss

What I can't believe is DM got released before TDM... How the hell can a self-acclaimed teamwork-orientated shooter release DM before TDM... I still don't see that...

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How the hell can a self-acclaimed teamwork-orientated shooter release DM before TDM

If DM is a step on the way to TDM, you would have a choice -- get DM first when it's ready and wait for TDM, or wait until TDM is ready and get both at the same time.

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How the hell can a self-acclaimed teamwork-orientated shooter release DM before TDM

If DM is a step on the way to TDM, you would have a choice -- get DM first when it's ready and wait for TDM, or wait until TDM is ready and get both at the same time.

:stupid:

Dude, got any 30-something sisters?!

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Ditto for me too.

And I didn't think that this sounded too encouraging either, given that there are some comments that the modding community would help rescue AW:

Soon after entering the map editor, I realized that this game (although boasting the Ghost Recon name) was not and never will be Ghost Recon. Still though, I did take the time (approx 150 hours) and made 5 very good maps. The editor was laiden with bugs and glitches. Many of my maps had to be done and re-done numerous times before final complettion. I realized after I had finished my 5th map .... wow, there are not any more maps that I can make !! What I mean by this, is that the editor is very "cookie cutter" in nature. There is no terrain generator and the LEGO piecies that were given to us are just that .... LEGO piecies. If I were to make another map, it would have to much the same as one of the other 5 maps that I had just finished. There is a very limited selection of buildings, object, props, and terrain.
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Ditto for me too.

And I didn't think that this sounded too encouraging either, given that there are some comments that the modding community would help rescue AW:

Soon after entering the map editor, I realized that this game (although boasting the Ghost Recon name) was not and never will be Ghost Recon. Still though, I did take the time (approx 150 hours) and made 5 very good maps. The editor was laiden with bugs and glitches. Many of my maps had to be done and re-done numerous times before final complettion. I realized after I had finished my 5th map .... wow, there are not any more maps that I can make !! What I mean by this, is that the editor is very "cookie cutter" in nature. There is no terrain generator and the LEGO piecies that were given to us are just that .... LEGO piecies. If I were to make another map, it would have to much the same as one of the other 5 maps that I had just finished. There is a very limited selection of buildings, object, props, and terrain.

as if this quote represents the modding community ??

even in the mod forum you can see improvement, this is only one guy who spoke his mind

it is not representative for the community

i've even seen ruggbutt enthousiastic about a mod being made, that blew my mind.......

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Ditto for me too.

And I didn't think that this sounded too encouraging either, given that there are some comments that the modding community would help rescue AW:

Soon after entering the map editor, I realized that this game (although boasting the Ghost Recon name) was not and never will be Ghost Recon. Still though, I did take the time (approx 150 hours) and made 5 very good maps. The editor was laiden with bugs and glitches. Many of my maps had to be done and re-done numerous times before final complettion. I realized after I had finished my 5th map .... wow, there are not any more maps that I can make !! What I mean by this, is that the editor is very "cookie cutter" in nature. There is no terrain generator and the LEGO piecies that were given to us are just that .... LEGO piecies. If I were to make another map, it would have to much the same as one of the other 5 maps that I had just finished. There is a very limited selection of buildings, object, props, and terrain.

as if this quote represents the modding community ??

even in the mod forum you can see improvement, this is only one guy who spoke his mind

it is not representative for the community

i've even seen ruggbutt enthousiastic about a mod being made, that blew my mind.......

Problem with speaking for other people is unless you have paper sigs supporting you, a company is gonna right you off. And if it's one person a Company can afford to miss you out.

Thing that gets me is so far I've not really seen much as to why people dislike this game other than 'It's not Ghost Recon 1'

I have personal gripes I wish I could sort out, but I just find this whole thing a bit overdramatic.

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well, everyone who's got a problem with GRAW can't be wrong. When I got over the "newness" of GRAW, then i started seeing with clear vision the things that were wrong. I reload and then there's a delay when i try to run. I get the drop on someone, or so my machine shows, and they have killed me. why pull the trigger at all?

GRAW is the only game that has a sound system that crackles. heard it was the drivers for audigy 4's but wht is it the only game to do this?

as for the "it's not GR1" comment, that was a dumb comment because it's not. alot of folks to include myself waited many years for a new GR to appear, having the GR2 rug pulled out from underneath us. there's a big following, or was until GRAW came out.

added: Since I've installed GRAW, AFZ and BDA's server were the only real servers seeing ANY action on them. the others were big fat goose eggs.

Edited by Papa6
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well, everyone who's got a problem with GRAW can't be wrong. When I got over the "newness" of GRAW, then i started seeing with clear vision the things that were wrong. I reload and then there's a delay when i try to run. I get the drop on someone, or so my machine shows, and they have killed me. why pull the trigger at all?

GRAW is the only game that has a sound system that crackles. heard it was the drivers for audigy 4's but wht is it the only game to do this?

as for the "it's not GR1" comment, that was a dumb comment because it's not. alot of folks to include myself waited many years for a new GR to appear, having the GR2 rug pulled out from underneath us. there's a big following, or was until GRAW came out.

added: Since I've installed GRAW, AFZ and BDA's server were the only real servers seeing ANY action on them. the others were big fat goose eggs.

This is just a reply to the part about the crackling noise. If you go to the Creative forums you will see the problem extends way passed GRAW in this aspect. It might not do it in other games for you, but it is a huge problem that alot of people are getting in other games and programs.

My friend brought his PC over to my house one day and hooked it up, and I played on it, and every game we loaded had the crackling sound. BF2, CoD2, GRAW, Oblivion, and so on.

Edited by Judge_Recluse
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Thing that gets me is so far I've not really seen much as to why people dislike this game other than 'It's not Ghost Recon 1'

Then (A), you've missed the point of most of the posts that I'VE been reading... cuz they're centered around performance issues, not gameplay...

And (B), only speaking for myself, I did NOT expect GR1.... I expected BETTER...

1) Better Tactical Implementation, sorry... but the team AI are idiots... I started using them for cannon fodder and to keep ME from getting shot at. :o=

2) Better Play Types... Don't know exactly WHAT I was expecting here, I suppose an enhancement of the basic Team Seige, CTF, SAR types of play... What we GOT was Battlefield 2 run-n-gun on a smaller scale, without benefit of tanks to hide in... (which bolsters point 1 above) :wall:

3) A GOOD editor. The AW editor has 1 thing I really like... the ability to see objects (read: vehicles) as they're placed. And for all it's drawbacks, the scripting gui in IGOR beats the hell out of ANYTHING that is going to require me to write in XML... (And, yes, I understand XML, I write content for it daily) :geek:

4) Dedicated Servers. Nuff said... That horse has been led to water, put in the deep end, and had it's head held under... we're just waiting for the mouth to open so it can die peacefully...... :whistle:

What GRIN DID deliver (and my hat really IS off to you guys....), was:

1) Beautiful Graphics..... assuming you got the horsepower to run em....

2) Immersive maps.... More rural woulda been nice, but hey... that's what you pay modders for.... :thumbsup:

3) Some pretty wicked (IMHO) enemy AI.... they're not geniuses... but they make the ones in GR1 look like stumps...

4) Extra weapons... the current enhaced kits rock.... I never could get my head around why I had to sacrifice nades in favor of a pistol... KUDOS....

5) A nice sense of continuity in the campaign. That's more a scripting kudo than anything else, but since it was content outta the box.... there ya go)

6) Real world support... it was nice to see the Longbows blowing through taking out tanks with hellfire missles at the embassy and other maps. GR1 could do it, but it was always 'implied' that the cavalry came to the rescue.... it's a subtle nuance, but a big one in my book.

:coolspeak:

And, I could go on.... my point is, that GRIN delivered a LOT of REALLY nice stuff in AW... and I'm sure there's a lot more content on the way... it's just unfortunate that it's been sooo undermined by the performance issues that DON'T appear to have any impending resolution.

You can pimp my ride all day long.... but if I ain't got no gas..... I'm walking.... :wacko:

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