my faith is waning on GRAW

[ruggbutt]

It's on life support now...........

[ToW-Angel]

For the patient men things will come. For the impatient men, things never happen soon enough and are sorely disappointed.

Wine is not made in a day, nor was the China wall, both take time.

This game was practically judged (from the comments I've read) almost before it came out in the retail stores. Not saying it's right or wrong.

I am an extremely patient person, I can wait to see how this turns out.

I'm going to give you an example of the last game my squad and I played together... It's truly sad...

Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising... 2 weeks after it came out we had a patch, then we waited 2 more months till they released the map editor, then we waited 4 more months to get a second patch and we didn't get the last, only and final patch until 8 months after that.

3 patches in a year and almost a half. And none of them dealt with the major issues.. I was patient and held out.

NovaLogic never visits their forums, and you are lucky if you see a Nova employee post in their forums. They do not help players at all, even if you send the crash log directly to their support team, you are lucky to even get a reply if you get one at all.

My squad and I finally gave it up when GR:AW came out... We thought BF2 was going to do it for us, but failed miserably because of the serious kiddie arcade type of gameplay that game offers.

So... In 3 years of playing Joint Operations, we got exactly 3 patches, and none of them fixed any of the major issues at all.

So far in GR:AW, while the patches might not have fixed all the the bugs nor even some of the major ones and in a little over the 2 months I've had the game, we've seen 4 patches and GRIN posts in the forums to help people.

Compare these 2 games: Joint Operations and Ghost Recon AW

JO has no support, none of the patches fixed anything, gameplay was buggy (especially when you glitch through walls and other things), Nova doesn't get involved in their community and a whole bunch more things.

You guys complain that the patches aren't fixing anything after 4 patches? Please give me a break here... GRAW & GRIN are bigtime daylight to our last game. Being new here gives me new perspective that some of you cannot see... You, and now I, have the creame de la creame here...

AWESOME Community

Developer that does care and are involved in the community

A game (albeit not GR1 that everyone hoped for) still an awesome game (that still has bugs like any other game)

An excellent group of people who mod this game (which Nova never supported but say that they do)

While this game may not have everything, may not have all the major bugs worked, while they are still developing the tools, game content, gametypes and the other various things they are doing for this community and the game, you have Developers here who are listening to what each of you are wanting, something you just cannot deny.

UBI Soft tells GRIN what they can and cannot say or do. UBI is the one that told them to only release DOM and DM, but I'm pretty sure that GRIN wanted to release TDM (at least that's the feeling I get after I've heard some of the stories being told).

While you think about what I've said, understand that this is the creame de la creame for a community (positive and negative) and that you have a group of awesome people here who are willing to help you (compared to my last game, this community is daylight compared to the community at Novalogic which is so pitch black that most can't even see the back of their hands).

The game not up to par for you? I beg and dare you to try Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising demo, it's still available for download, then visit their forums at www.novaworld.com, visit their other communities, then you will understand just how good it is here, the best I've ever seen in an online community, including the online chatting communities I've been part of for a long time.

This is just something to think about, don't truly even need to reply to my thoughts here in this post... It's just something for you to digest and think about.

[}PW{ Postal]

I think the biggest thing here is what expectations everyone had. I truly beleive that if this game was titled something..anything different then Ghost Recon : Advanced Warfighter then it would have been the most popular game of the year. It truly is all about perpective. I guess it would be like driving a lamborgini for a couple years then buying a car with the name lamborgini and getting a ferrari....its just not what was EXPECTED.

With that said...i have always looked outside the box and thats why i can enjoy this game i guess.

[Stormin]

For the patient men things will come. For the impatient men, things never happen soon enough and are sorely disappointed.

Wine is not made in a day, nor was the China wall, both take time.

This game was practically judged (from the comments I've read) almost before it came out in the retail stores. Not saying it's right or wrong.

I am an extremely patient person, I can wait to see how this turns out.

I'm going to give you an example of the last game my squad and I played together... It's truly sad...

Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising... 2 weeks after it came out we had a patch, then we waited 2 more months till they released the map editor, then we waited 4 more months to get a second patch and we didn't get the last, only and final patch until 8 months after that.

3 patches in a year and almost a half. And none of them dealt with the major issues.. I was patient and held out.

NovaLogic never visits their forums, and you are lucky if you see a Nova employee post in their forums. They do not help players at all, even if you send the crash log directly to their support team, you are lucky to even get a reply if you get one at all.

My squad and I finally gave it up when GR:AW came out... We thought BF2 was going to do it for us, but failed miserably because of the serious kiddie arcade type of gameplay that game offers.

So... In 3 years of playing Joint Operations, we got exactly 3 patches, and none of them fixed any of the major issues at all.

So far in GR:AW, while the patches might not have fixed all the the bugs nor even some of the major ones and in a little over the 2 months I've had the game, we've seen 4 patches and GRIN posts in the forums to help people.

Compare these 2 games: Joint Operations and Ghost Recon AW

JO has no support, none of the patches fixed anything, gameplay was buggy (especially when you glitch through walls and other things), Nova doesn't get involved in their community and a whole bunch more things.

You guys complain that the patches aren't fixing anything after 4 patches? Please give me a break here... GRAW & GRIN are bigtime daylight to our last game. Being new here gives me new perspective that some of you cannot see... You, and now I, have the creame de la creame here...

AWESOME Community

Developer that does care and are involved in the community

A game (albeit not GR1 that everyone hoped for) still an awesome game (that still has bugs like any other game)

An excellent group of people who mod this game (which Nova never supported but say that they do)

While this game may not have everything, may not have all the major bugs worked, while they are still developing the tools, game content, gametypes and the other various things they are doing for this community and the game, you have Developers here who are listening to what each of you are wanting, something you just cannot deny.

UBI Soft tells GRIN what they can and cannot say or do. UBI is the one that told them to only release DOM and DM, but I'm pretty sure that GRIN wanted to release TDM (at least that's the feeling I get after I've heard some of the stories being told).

While you think about what I've said, understand that this is the creame de la creame for a community (positive and negative) and that you have a group of awesome people here who are willing to help you (compared to my last game, this community is daylight compared to the community at Novalogic which is so pitch black that most can't even see the back of their hands).

The game not up to par for you? I beg and dare you to try Joint Operations: Typhoon Rising demo, it's still available for download, then visit their forums at www.novaworld.com, visit their other communities, then you will understand just how good it is here, the best I've ever seen in an online community, including the online chatting communities I've been part of for a long time.

This is just something to think about, don't truly even need to reply to my thoughts here in this post... It's just something for you to digest and think about.

Excellent point of view that I have always thought as well... I too haved played JO since it's inception and I know first hand what your saying here.... Thanks for your input here 'ToW-Angel' , Well said.....

[Poita]

Everything has its own timeframe. Some insects live a full life yet die withing 24 hours.

The wall of Chinas contruction was spread over almost a thousand years, wine can take a few years or a few decades to mature.

Games almost always die within four years or so. Counter Strike is one of the few examples of a game that goes on and on. Even our great benchmark GR1 ran out of steam after about 4 years and even though we have nothing to replace it, there is only so long you can play a game.

Computer games are not the wall of china or wine, they are computer games and they all have limited shelf life witht he first year being the crucial phase.

If GRAW does not get sorted and seriously so in the next 3 to six months then it's dead. A few 'very patient' players and a bunch of 'i'll take whatever the devs dish out and be grateful' consumers will not save it.

[CkZWarlord]

I think the biggest thing here is what expectations everyone had. I truly beleive that if this game was titled something..anything different then Ghost Recon : Advanced Warfighter then it would have been the most popular game of the year. It truly is all about perpective. I guess it would be like driving a lamborgini for a couple years then buying a car with the name lamborgini and getting a ferrari....its just not what was EXPECTED.

With that said...i have always looked outside the box and thats why i can enjoy this game i guess.

I'd have to disagree. To use your analogy: It's like driving a Lamborghini for couple of years and then getting a BMW 540i. A nice car too and it has a nice big powerful engine but that doesn't make it a sportscar. But let's just stop with the car analogies... I mean come on, it's not a racing game. At least use something befitting like comparing an M16 and a C5 Diemaco...

Say this game was called just Advanced Warfighter, well, first of all, it wouldn't have been released yet because it wouldn't have generated such popular interest and UBI wouldn't have seen interest fading after a while and therefore force GRiN to release it. The only reason the game has gotten this much attention is because of the GR pre-fix. Call me spoiled but compared to other contemporary games graphics-wise the game doesn't stand out (say what you want, that is my opinion). That is significant, because that means it doesn't stand out in magazines, if it would even be in magazines as GRiN is/was a relatively unknown publisher (to quote Bo: "All I hear is that I never developed a game.", says it all really).

Therefore I highly doubt anyone here would be playing this game as probably most of the people here would have just considered it a GR/R6 knock-off.

[semperfi_bohica]

No MP, no Dedi files, you could call it whatever you want and still get the same result...Poop from Bo/UBI/Grin i.e. UBI & B.U.G.

[}PW{ Postal]

To each his own....Im not gonna pick you comments apart...because what good does that acomplish? Other than just trying to start a fight. As of the rest of your post...just like you....i have a right to my own opinion and i stated that already.

[CkZWarlord]

i have a right to my own opinion and i stated that already.

Yes you do, and so do I...

[Papa6]

**** A Note to all posters here******

This thread wasn't meant to open the door to bashing of others opinions. This all started from me placing my thoguhts and intentions out for all to see.

I placed some inner thoughts about GRAW out here and expected that my opinion/thoughts be respected as well as others.

If you stand for GRAW GREAT!

If you stand against GRAW GREAT!

I'm not wholly against GRAW as i stated but I'm going to use this final patch to make my final decision of my future of GRAW. Am i going to keep riding the space shuttle or am I going to hit the abort button?

[RAbbi_74]

Ride it all the way in, baby!

Ever seen "Dr. Strangelove, or How I learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb?"

Ride it all the way in....

[liteluvr]

Here's some feedback.....

after eagerly awaiting this game, and getting it on day one... I've been steadily growing more and more disappointed with the game performance.

Multiplayer is a joke on a GOOD day... I can't connect and stay connected to more than 1 DOM at a time... I've scoured the forums and set my router every which way I can think of to no avail... to the point that I'm not the least bit interested in MP anymore.

And after 3 patches, the games plays worse in SP mode than it did out of the box. I've had more freezes, crashes and lockups after getting fully patched than I ever did with the original release.

Gameplay wise, this game is awesome. The enemy AI are much smarter than the original doofs. The team AI leaves a LOT to be desired... but that's not my sore point.

I made it through the original campaing with fairly good performance, minimal crashes, and generally good feelings about the game. Since MP has become such a chore, I've been playing SP over again. Tonight, after 3 lockups in 30 minutes, I pretty much gave it up and shut down the PC.

My system is an AMD 64 2.0ghz, 2 gb dual channel DDR ram, single nVidia 6800GT 300gb 5200rpm drive DFI Lanparty SLI board, G5 mouse, so it's no slouch system. Granted it's not cutting edge anymore (at 9 months old... ) but it's still pretty good... it runs Battlefield 2 (which I despise, BTW) like a bat outta hell...

I've been supportive, positive, upbeat and optimistic... but enough is enough. GRIN... what's the point of developing a game that has SO many good things going for it, only to have it crash and burn because of performance issues? C'mon guys.... I know everyone wants to code the the latest, coolest, but jeez... consider your target market... not everyone can justify dropping a grand into their PC just to play your game... especially when there are a ton of other ones out there that run just fine.

I'm a software developer by trade, and just can't fathom the reasoning behind where you guys have your heads. To this point, all you've really done for the GR legacy is leave an extremely bad taste in the mouths of a lot of loyal fans.

If you want to make some significant patches.... stabilize this piece of crap to where it runs as well as it's predecessor, fix the MP server issues, and work on making it a playable piece of software.

Sorry if that's harsh and blunt, but that's the way I am, especially when dealing with professionals.

[RAbbi_74]

Here's some feedback.....

after eagerly awaiting this game, and getting it on day one... I've been steadily growing more and more disappointed with the game performance.

Multiplayer is a joke on a GOOD day... I can't connect and stay connected to more than 1 DOM at a time... I've scoured the forums and set my router every which way I can think of to no avail... to the point that I'm not the least bit interested in MP anymore.

And after 3 patches, the games plays worse in SP mode than it did out of the box. I've had more freezes, crashes and lockups after getting fully patched than I ever did with the original release.

Gameplay wise, this game is awesome. The enemy AI are much smarter than the original doofs. The team AI leaves a LOT to be desired... but that's not my sore point.

I made it through the original campaing with fairly good performance, minimal crashes, and generally good feelings about the game. Since MP has become such a chore, I've been playing SP over again. Tonight, after 3 lockups in 30 minutes, I pretty much gave it up and shut down the PC.

My system is an AMD 64 2.0ghz, 2 gb dual channel DDR ram, single nVidia 6800GT 300gb 5200rpm drive DFI Lanparty SLI board, G5 mouse, so it's no slouch system. Granted it's not cutting edge anymore (at 9 months old... ) but it's still pretty good... it runs Battlefield 2 (which I despise, BTW) like a bat outta hell...

I've been supportive, positive, upbeat and optimistic... but enough is enough. GRIN... what's the point of developing a game that has SO many good things going for it, only to have it crash and burn because of performance issues? C'mon guys.... I know everyone wants to code the the latest, coolest, but jeez... consider your target market... not everyone can justify dropping a grand into their PC just to play your game... especially when there are a ton of other ones out there that run just fine.

I'm a software developer by trade, and just can't fathom the reasoning behind where you guys have your heads. To this point, all you've really done for the GR legacy is leave an extremely bad taste in the mouths of a lot of loyal fans.

If you want to make some significant patches.... stabilize this piece of crap to where it runs as well as it's predecessor, fix the MP server issues, and work on making it a playable piece of software.

Sorry if that's harsh and blunt, but that's the way I am, especially when dealing with professionals.

Oops- n/m

Edited July 9, 2006 by RAbbi_74

[liteluvr]

Rabbi..... go ahead... I'm thick skinned.... LOL

[RAbbi_74]

NNah, I was gonna ask if you posted that in another thread, but I realized that you hand't and edited out the question. Sorry...

But while we're at it, I'm sure you know it's in the works. The game WILL get fixed, but it's gonna take time. Surely you understand taht. Being that this is an old, tired argument, I'm not trying to make a big deal out of it. We're all a little frustrated with the game in its current state. I'm just choosing to stay a little on the optimistic and constructive side for now...

[liteluvr]

LOL.... what a sense of deja vu... I did post this in another forum, but realized this was probably a more appropriate place for it, so I moved it.

I understand what you mean about patience... I too am waiting... some days more patiently than others.

As for fixed... I guess what gets 'fixed' depends on what the developers see as being 'broken'... an age old problem.

But, nonetheless... if they're reading this forum and others, they know what the problems are, and what the user base is going through... so it's pretty much up to them to deliver or not.

I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, and GR1 didn't become the ever-lovin classic it is on the first release either... but it was pretty stable... and it was pretty playable... and this one ain't.... either one....

So.... time will tell..... in the meantime, I'm going back to finishing off some of my GR1 mods that I had been working on.... LOL..

[CkZWarlord]

I've been supportive, positive, upbeat and optimistic... but enough is enough. GRIN... what's the point of developing a game that has SO many good things going for it, only to have it crash and burn because of performance issues? C'mon guys.... I know everyone wants to code the the latest, coolest, but jeez... consider your target market... not everyone can justify dropping a grand into their PC just to play your game... especially when there are a ton of other ones out there that run just fine.

I'm a software developer by trade, and just can't fathom the reasoning behind where you guys have your heads. To this point, all you've really done for the GR legacy is leave an extremely bad taste in the mouths of a lot of loyal fans.

Couldn't have said it any better. This is exactly what I meant with saying that GR:AW is a benchmark game.

Edited July 9, 2006 by CkZWarlord

[OliverReed]

I've been supportive, positive, upbeat and optimistic... but enough is enough. GRIN... what's the point of developing a game that has SO many good things going for it, only to have it crash and burn because of performance issues? C'mon guys.... I know everyone wants to code the the latest, coolest, but jeez... consider your target market... not everyone can justify dropping a grand into their PC just to play your game... especially when there are a ton of other ones out there that run just fine.

Well said that man.

[Papa6]

To be fair about this whole thing, that's why I'm going to give this 5th patch the final vote.

[Logos]

Call me spoiled but compared to other contemporary games graphics-wise the game doesn't stand out (say what you want, that is my opinion).

I'll have to disagree there. I just got the hardware that will run this game at 1600x1200 with EVERYTHING on high, and this game at those settings, at 1280x960 even, is visually astounding. Remember that only those people with 512MB(or better) videocards have access to the highest detail settings, so most people have never seen this game with everything turned all the way up. The problem is not having the hardware to run at those high resolutions and high settings. And, BTW, there's no need for AA at those high resolutions.

Sure, we can say that the game is simply too demanding, and it's unrealistic to expect people to have the hardware to run at those settings. That's definitely a reasonable argument. The game, however, is visually impressive if you have the right hardware.

[Janie42]

I understand that Rome wasn't built in a day, and GR1 didn't become the ever-lovin classic it is on the first release either... but it was pretty stable... and it was pretty playable... and [GR:AW] ain't... either one...

So... time will tell... in the meantime, I'm going back to finishing off some of my GR1 mods that I had been working on.

This would be good news indeed!

[Tinker]

Me too!

[LT.INSTG8R]

Call me spoiled but compared to other contemporary games graphics-wise the game doesn't stand out (say what you want, that is my opinion).

I'll have to disagree there. I just got the hardware that will run this game at 1600x1200 with EVERYTHING on high, and this game at those settings, at 1280x960 even, is visually astounding. Remember that only those people with 512MB(or better) videocards have access to the highest detail settings, so most people have never seen this game with everything turned all the way up. The problem is not having the hardware to run at those high resolutions and high settings. And, BTW, there's no need for AA at those high resolutions.

Sure, we can say that the game is simply too demanding, and it's unrealistic to expect people to have the hardware to run at those settings. That's definitely a reasonable argument. The game, however, is visually impressive if you have the right hardware.

But Logos if you go back to viiipers poll and look at the results you will see that the Majority DONT have machines that are capable, nor will they. Most were either running 12/10 or 10/7 Res which IMO would be again the MAJORITY of most gamers systems and it has bothered me since this games release that they completely missed the mark on that fact liteluvr is completely right in his statement IMO

I just got the hardware to run this game maxed out now too(not for GRAW I might add, just upgrade time), do I think its looks all that much better? not really(granted Im still at 12/10 Res but my 20" LCD should be here this week so I can see what 16/12 looks like tho I expect to only look mildly better again at the cost of precious FPS)I intend to go Crossfire with this Rig in the near future as well, tho I may gain some FPS its still not going to look any better as far as Im concerned( I do alot of Racing and Flight Simming so theres where I will see the visual gains)

Edit just wanted to add a link to viiipers Poll

Edited July 9, 2006 by LT.INSTG8R

[buellsrusx1]

Say this game was called just Advanced Warfighter, well, first of all, it wouldn't have been released yet because it wouldn't have generated such popular interest and UBI wouldn't have seen interest fading after a while and therefore force GRiN to release it. The only reason the game has gotten this much attention is because of the GR pre-fix. Call me spoiled but compared to other contemporary games graphics-wise the game doesn't stand out (say what you want, that is my opinion). That is significant, because that means it doesn't stand out in magazines, if it would even be in magazines as GRiN is/was a relatively unknown publisher (to quote Bo: "All I hear is that I never developed a game.", says it all really).

Therefore I highly doubt anyone here would be playing this game as probably most of the people here would have just considered it a GR/R6 knock-off.

Exactly, GR1 fans made the sales of GRAW, GRAW would still be in the dark if it wasnt for [GR] and [GR] PC players.

[Logos]

But Logos if you go back to viiipers poll and look at the results you will see that the Majority DONT have machines that are capable, nor will they.

LT, I know that. In fact, if you'll look at my post, I not only said that, but I said that it was a fair argument.

The quote I was responding to indicated that the graphics were not that great. My point was that the graphics were, in fact, great, but that most people didn't have the hardware to see how great they were. That's all I was saying. I know that fact doesn't do the average gamer much good, but the statement indicated that the graphics were not up to today's standard's, and I say they are, that the problem is really that hardware requirements are tomorrow's standards. With the exception of you stating that you don't think it looks that much better at high resolutions, your post actually agrees with mine.

Turn everything up. Put it on 1600x1200. Walk around for a while. Just look around. Look at the textures. Pay attention to the lighting. It's actually quite well done. It might not be as aesthetically pleasing, as pretty as, let's say, the lush jungles in the much pubbed Crysis trailers, but that has much more to do with setting than graphics. You could do gorgeous jungles in GR:AW. We, of course, got Mexico City. Our loss, I guess.