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No More Premium GRAW DLC - My Opinion


X_Hamilton_X
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I don't think there will be anymore DLC we have to pay for until GRAW 2 comes out so you can forget about Chapter 3. Too many people are not buying the present DLC. If they put out another DLC and charge for it, more people will not buy it. Think about it: why would anyone buy the 2nd DLC but not the first? If you have to have ALL the maps to play with your friends it gets really confusing. You could end up with:

1. Those with all maps

2. Those with just the first DLC

3. Those with just the 2nd DLC

4. Those with only the original maps

The current DLC divided the community in half and prevented many from playing with their friends. If they put out another premium DLC it will quarter the community, making finding games even more difficult.

I don't see Ubi doing this. They've created a system than makes future purchases of DLC much less likely. I suspect Ubi knows it and will try to suck as much money (1200 points a pop) as it can from this DLC and then either:

1. Not offer future DLC

2. Offer only free DLC (prob. only once to try to redeem itself in the community)

3. Put out an "expansion pack" disk with all of the current DLC and some new stuff, sort of like GR: Island Thunder or GR2: Summit Strike. The expansion pack will fix the bugs still in GRAW, much like GR2:SS fixed bugs in GR2 that were never addressed. I'd expect the expansion pack to hit sometime between February and April next year and then GRAW 2 to be announced at E3 2007 for a fall release.

However, there is one more possibility: Ubi might decide that enough people bought the DLC for 1200 points that a new DLC is justified, albeit at a higher price to support the smaller customer base. In other words, you might expect to pay 1600 points for "Chapter 3", 2000 points for Chapter 4, etc. Offering Chapter 3 for less than 1200 would be pretty much admitting they gouged the community and would prove the excuse of "high development costs" to justify 1200 points to be wrong.

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I'm curious.... Are there official sales numbers on the DLC yet? Not to come off as confrontational at all, but what supports your thinking that sales are bad?

-John

I'm not saying "bad". I'm saying lots of people aren't buying it compared to those who bought the game off the shelf.

1. Not everyone has Live to buy the DLC in the first place.

2. Those who do may not have the Gold membership to play online.

3. Those who have Gold and still have GRAW (some will have traded it in by now) may not want the DLC for their own reasons.

4. The bad press as evidenced by 1Up Yours and OXM's podcasts (and possibly future print media) will drive away some.

5. Most (not all) comments posted on various boards across the internet are not encouraging.

In other words, the potential pool of DLC customers is getting smaller and smaller and the way Ubi designed the game futher decreases the chances people will buy it knowing that some of their friends won't and won't be able to play with them.

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I'm sorry, but your not making a lot of sense.

What is the basis for your statement:

"Too many people are not buying the present DLC. "

???? Based on what...gut feeling? Comments by the trolls here? EVERYONE I know that plays online has bought the DLC. EVERYONE! There isn't a room I've been in that didn't have it. PERIOD!

You also state:

"The current DLC divided the community in half and prevented many from playing with their friends."

But, then go on to say:

1. Not everyone has Live to buy the DLC in the first place.

2. Those who do may not have the Gold membership to play online.

If you don't have LIVE you weren't playing online anyway and therefor these players could not have been divided from any group, because they were never there to begin with. If you don't have a gold membership then again, you weren't online anyway.

I think some of you guys just aren't happy unless you're complaining.

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I'm sorry, but your not making a lot of sense.

What is the basis for your statement:

"Too many people are not buying the present DLC. "

???? Based on what...gut feeling? Comments by the trolls here? EVERYONE I know that plays online has bought the DLC. EVERYONE! There isn't a room I've been in that didn't have it. PERIOD!

You also state:

"The current DLC divided the community in half and prevented many from playing with their friends."

But, then go on to say:

1. Not everyone has Live to buy the DLC in the first place.

2. Those who do may not have the Gold membership to play online.

If you don't have LIVE you weren't playing online anyway and therefor these players could not have been divided from any group, because they were never there to begin with. If you don't have a gold membership then again, you weren't online anyway.

I think some of you guys just aren't happy unless you're complaining.

First my "too many" statement comes from observation from several forums on the internet, negative statements from both 1Up and OXM about the price and the fact that it divides the community (I'm assuming the negative statements will dissuade a number of people from buying the DLC), my own friends list of once GRAW players, and the simple logic that many people will not want to pay another $15 for a game they bought for $60 just a few months ago. This isn't a MMORPG.

Secondly, your taking things out of context regarding the division of the community. There's no arguing that the community has been divided. It has. Either you have DLC or you don't and if you don't then you can't play with those who do if the host has DLC. Thus you can only play with those who don't have it if you don't. The community is split.

The last part about who has Live, Gold, the first DLC, etc. is just an observation of the pool of people Ubi can expect to pull from to buy future DLC's. It will get smaller and smaller with each new DLC unless Ubi does something to address the problem. I simply don't think Ubi will offer new premium DLC unless it can answer this problem or without charging you an arm and a kidney for it.

Edited by X_Hamilton_X
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:stupid:

So many people wanted this that it crashed the servers the first day of DL availability. Almost every GRAW player on my FL (about 60 of em) have the DLC. Downloading the DLC has not effected any player that normally plays in our rooms.

Stop complaining... You have NO IDEA what you are missing.

UBI: Give us more! :thumbsup:

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I simply don't think Ubi will offer new premium DLC unless it can answer this problem or without charging you an arm and a kidney for it.

It seems you have a tendency towards a little exaggeration. I don't think you can get a kidney on the black market for $15. :rolleyes:

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I'm sorry, but your not making a lot of sense.

What is the basis for your statement:

"Too many people are not buying the present DLC. "

???? Based on what...gut feeling? Comments by the trolls here? EVERYONE I know that plays online has bought the DLC. EVERYONE! There isn't a room I've been in that didn't have it. PERIOD!

Since you have "never" been in a room where everyone didn't have the DLC that means you have not been in a room where the host did not have DLC ...therefore no one without it could join. And that to a degree is exactly what Hamilton is saying - the DLC has divided the GRAW community into the have's and have not's. As fewer and fewer hosts are available those without DLC will look for alternative games.

Out of our active GRAW players about 10% do not have the DLC. Some only played GRAW because it was the gane of choice of the majority and don't feel like spending the $15 and are off playing different games or awaiting the release of other games. Some didn't get it because they see the potential of having to pay again for another download in the future.

I expect that just as a percentage of our group ( a group founded upon GR2 and Summit Strike) there is an equal or probably greater percentage (since I would classify even our 'Casual" GRAW players as being more wedded to the franchise than the average 360 gamer) of general 360 gamers who had GRAW but did not get the DLC. So there has been some division created between "Casual" GRAW players and "Hardcore" players.

These "Casual" GRAW players are the ones that UBI is losing since they are finding it impossible to join in games with their friends since most hosts are probably "Hardcore" and have the DLC. So they are off playing and talking about other games.

So just as the potential market for the DLC was smaller than the # of units sold at launch (some will have traded in GRAW, some will have bought GRAW but not have Live) the potential market for the 2cnd DLC is also smaller again as mor ecopies are traded in and the people that did not by Chapter 2 will not be buying Chapter 3.

So the pricing for Chapter 3 (if there is a chapter 3) will be interesting to see.

In terms of the so called trolling and Haterz ... as Beonder so eloquently puts it in his sig quote:

“Silence on your part in the face of unacceptable behavior will be perceived as approval.â€

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I'm sorry, but your not making a lot of sense.

What is the basis for your statement:

"Too many people are not buying the present DLC. "

???? Based on what...gut feeling? Comments by the trolls here? EVERYONE I know that plays online has bought the DLC. EVERYONE! There isn't a room I've been in that didn't have it. PERIOD!

Since you have "never" been in a room where everyone didn't have the DLC that means you have not been in a room where the host did not have DLC ...therefore no one without it could join. And that to a degree is exactly what Hamilton is saying - the DLC has divided the GRAW community into the have's and have not's. As fewer and fewer hosts are available those without DLC will look for alternative games.

Out of our active GRAW players about 10% do not have the DLC. Some only played GRAW because it was the gane of choice of the majority and don't feel like spending the $15 and are off playing different games or awaiting the release of other games. Some didn't get it because they see the potential of having to pay again for another download in the future.

I expect that just as a percentage of our group ( a group founded upon GR2 and Summit Strike) there is an equal or probably greater percentage (since I would classify even our 'Casual" GRAW players as being more wedded to the franchise than the average 360 gamer) of general 360 gamers who had GRAW but did not get the DLC. So there has been some division created between "Casual" GRAW players and "Hardcore" players.

These "Casual" GRAW players are the ones that UBI is losing since they are finding it impossible to join in games with their friends since most hosts are probably "Hardcore" and have the DLC. So they are off playing and talking about other games.

So just as the potential market for the DLC was smaller than the # of units sold at launch (some will have traded in GRAW, some will have bought GRAW but not have Live) the potential market for the 2cnd DLC is also smaller again as mor ecopies are traded in and the people that did not by Chapter 2 will not be buying Chapter 3.

So the pricing for Chapter 3 (if there is a chapter 3) will be interesting to see.

In terms of the so called trolling and Haterz ... as Beonder so eloquently puts it in his sig quote:

“Silence on your part in the face of unacceptable behavior will be perceived as approval.â€

My opinion:

There is division, there is a huge division and it's a good thing. All of my clan got the dlc and the people I meet on a day to day basis have it. If I wanted to play the old maps constantly to cater to people in my room I would own only the old maps. The ones who don't have it made a choice and I'm not going to want to listen to people boo-hooing about the fact that they can't join a room because they don't have it. If people were joining the rooms they'd be angry and boo-hooing about the fact that noone will keep them in the room because they don't have the new content.

Personally I don't want one of my 8-12 (can't support more heh) slots taken up by someone who isn't going to be playing the game with me until i choose nowhere during the day or treasury. And I know damned well noone with the new content wants to sit around and wait to play the old content. I never heard complaints from people (I didn't follow the forums like I do here though) who bought or got the content from bungie for free and couldn't start a room because some dipstick didn't have the content. If someone in my team didn't have the new content I didn't say "oh lets play the old maps for them" I booted them. I'd gladly and quickly do it on GRAW as well because I don't want someone wasting my slots so that they can play the old maps with me. Forget that. Complain all you want but what ubi did was the right thing, not waste everyones time. Again that's my opinion.

The Facts:

Day one 7:45 P.M. Opsixdelta calls me and tells me the d/l content is out. I use my work phone to tell my fiance that I would like her to D/L this content.

Day one 10:45 P.M. I get home from work and the DLC is still only at 25 percent. I turn off the dlc and begin playing games angry at microsoft for the long DL time.

Day two 10ish. I get up and dl the dlc it still takes me 45 minutes. PEOPLE ARE STILL DOWNLOADING THE CONTENT. The "too many people aren't buying the dlc so it must teach ubi a lesson" (no that's not verbatem) is incorrect. UBI may learn from all of the peoples complaints but too many people DID download the DLC for that to teach them not to spend alot of money. Serrellan if possible I'd like to see the number of people who have downloaded the content. Do I think the DLC was worth the money yes. Do I think it costed too much maybe a little, would I pay the same ammount for another DLC #### ####ING YES. Any day of the week I would because this content was worth the money I payed.

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dude really if you haven't downloaded the DLC then you are not a true gammer so stop talking and get a new game. :o=

What leap of logic are you proposing that somehow links whether a person has the DLC or not to their ability to speculate on how many people have gotten the DLC and what the impact of DLC vs. Non DLC hosting will be?

As for being a true "gammer" ... I would say that a person who takes the time to make a post worth discussing about the possible impacts of changes in a game is in fact exhibiting a passion for gaming that really defines a "true gamer".

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My guess is that there will be a third chapter, in fact I would guess that it is probably pretty far in developement already.

I'd also guess that just before the third chapter is released that the second chapter will either come down heavily in price or will be made available for free. This would then allow all those who have decided not to shell out the extra dosh to 'catch up' and get rehooked just before a new chapter is brought out. I would have thought the pricing of the third chapter would depend on its content more than anything else.

I don't really see any problem in paying out for extra content, it costs companys money to make new maps etc and I would rather pay out than see no new content. And if they did make the second chapter free eventually I wouldn't feel bitter that I had paid for it as it was my choice (Bungie did it with Halo 2 if memory serves me correctly)

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dude really if you haven't downloaded the DLC then you are not a true gammer so stop talking and get a new game. :o=

Lol so only real gamers have the DLC :wacko: ???. Then i guess i'm a "Super Gamer" lol, because i have GRAW 360, the DLC, & GRAW PC :rofl: .

j/k

Edited by USMC Maggot
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dude really if you haven't downloaded the DLC then you are not a true gammer so stop talking and get a new game. :o=

What leap of logic are you proposing that somehow links whether a person has the DLC or not to their ability to speculate on how many people have gotten the DLC and what the impact of DLC vs. Non DLC hosting will be?

As for being a true "gammer" ... I would say that a person who takes the time to make a post worth discussing about the possible impacts of changes in a game is in fact exhibiting a passion for gaming that really defines a "true gamer".

OK first things first night what makes you believe that the lack of DLC makes him not a true gamer?

Second Noone said that the person has to have DLC to speculate on how many people have purchased it, but the original poster of this topic was not speculating. It looked as if he were stating fact rather than speculation or opinion.

Third I have seen estimations of the number of people who downloaded the DLC in the first couple of days and while not staggering or mind numbing the numbers are what I expected them to be. I choose not to release the numbers because they were given in a private message and if redstorm wants them out for the public they can post them, but I will say that it is what I expected.

Edited by MasterKain2053
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I had been eagerly anticipating the release of GRAW since March 05. I bought it as soon as it came out. I have not played it in several months.

-The graphics are not what I expected. The colors and lighting do not look natural.

-The players move across the maps way too fast. Even faster than GR2. They don't move with a natural feel either. It just feels like you're floating across the map (yes, I'm talking about multiplayer, not the campaign mode glitch)

-If you're going to have OTS view, do it right. The character takes up too much of the screen.

-Annoying background music.

-Map layouts lead to boring multiplayer games. (Get back to maps like Bunkers, Pagoda, Ghost Village, Mountain Falls)

-There is no way I would pay for DLC for this game, and from what I've read, the DLC is teh suk.

As a final point, I will say that GRAW is not the only game for 360 that sucks. They all do. There are no good games available for the system yet.

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As a final point, I will say that GRAW is not the only game for 360 that sucks. They all do. There are no good games available for the system yet.

sleeping much? you seem to be dreaming.

GRAW is awesome, Chromehounds rocks, Fight Night kicks @$$, PGR is insane, Table Tennis is great...

You have no idea what you are talking about.

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You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I do. I have played all those games and they are not fun. The video game industry is stale and lacking creative talent. All developers do anymore is throw together ho-hum games with tons of bugs and ghey cut scenes and promote the hell out of it. I don't blame them either, it makes financial sense to do so.

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dont feed the troll...'there are no good games for the system yet'...

sweeping generalization much?

you are welcome to have your opinion, but remember, it's just that, an opinion, and one that millions of gamers appear to disagree with.

What Troll? I see no wit, humour or even references to hondas. Rubbish.

If I bought a 360 and then hated all the games I would one unhappy chicken. To then post here must indicate a lack of friends too. Is there a similar post in each of the forums for the games he mentions?

Just a hint of advice, don't watch TV, there is so much rubbish on you could spend the rest of your life writing to TV companies.

I like GRAW and PGR3. THe 360 has turned out better than I thought and I had my doubts.

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You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I do. I have played all those games and they are not fun. The video game industry is stale and lacking creative talent. All developers do anymore is throw together ho-hum games with tons of bugs and ghey cut scenes and promote the hell out of it. I don't blame them either, it makes financial sense to do so.

Ok nice opinion go sell your x-box 360 to someone who will enjoy it and read a book or stare at a wall or something. I'm sure I speak for quite a few people when I say I don't care to hear your opinion on this subject.

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You have no idea what you are talking about.

Yes, I do. I have played all those games and they are not fun. The video game industry is stale and lacking creative talent. All developers do anymore is throw together ho-hum games with tons of bugs and ghey cut scenes and promote the hell out of it. I don't blame them either, it makes financial sense to do so.

Ok nice opinion go sell your x-box 360 to someone who will enjoy it and read a book or stare at a wall or something. I'm sure I speak for quite a few people when I say I don't care to hear your opinion on this subject.

AMEN!!!!

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  • 2 weeks later...

IMO the whole ethos of the way that Microsoft seems to think what us gamers want is flawed.

IM 35 years old and have no interest in playing arcadey shooters(do people enjoy playing 10 minute games?) ,why dont they make some decent simulators .ie a tank sim tank,plane sim,or even a sub simhere as the graphics of the 360 would come in really handy.But as usual, i Have to keep upgrading an already defunkt PC .when the 360 is fit for this purpose (i suppose thats why i only play OVER G) :wall:

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Another reason why the original poster is totally wrong about no more DLC's:

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/723/723415p1.html

Activision Makes A Bundle On COD2 Map Sales

August 04, 2006 - GameSpot listened in on an Activision earnings call and discovered that the company has grossed around $1 million through sales of map packs for Call of Duty 2:

In a question-and-answer session following the company's earnings call, Activision CEO Bobby Kotick broke down the number of downloads and money made by each downloadable map pack. The free bonus pack, which included two maps, tallied 334,000 downloads. The $5 Skirmish Map Pack was downloaded 105,000 times and generated $368,000, and the $10 Invasion Map Pack invaded 66,000 360s and raked in almost half a million dollars.

"During the quarter our Call of Duty maps generated approximately $1 million in revenue, a critical first step in exploiting the online revenue potential and extending the shelf life of our games," said Kotick. "This holiday we'll look to further capitalize on the success of the franchise and its online capabilities."

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It is interesting that some 33% fewer players bought the second C0D2 pack. I wonder if it was pricing or timing that led to the decline?

As for Chapter 3 in GRAW I am not sure that Ubi/RSE hasn't waited to long in order for DLC to have much draw. Personally, my addiction to CrackHounds as well as the upcoming releases of Brothers In Arms, CoD3, Gears of War and Splinter Cell has put GRAW on the back burner.

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It is interesting that some 33% fewer players bought the second C0D2 pack. I wonder if it was pricing or timing that led to the decline?

As for Chapter 3 in GRAW I am not sure that Ubi/RSE hasn't waited to long in order for DLC to have much draw. Personally, my addiction to CrackHounds as well as the upcoming releases of Brothers In Arms, CoD3, Gears of War and Splinter Cell has put GRAW on the back burner.

wingshot pretty much hit it right on the nose. this fall is going to be big as far as the gaming industry is concerned. as of right now, we're going to see 3 major titles(imp) released about a week to 2 weeks apart for the 360. splintercell end of october, rainbowsix vegas nov 7, and gears of war nov 12. they're some others i didn't mention but those 3 titles will probably have the biggest draw. and on top of that there's the PS3 launch nov 17. people are going to be spending big bucks come fall/winter. so if ubi decides to release a chapter 3, my guess that it will be a couple of weeks before those 3 title releases and that it will be free in order to keep GRAW players interested. again that's just a hunch!

Edited by ITI SERPICO IVI
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