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Poita
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There's a lot more to a game than hiding in the grass. There has to be a game to begin with, a solid squad based tactical SP game, with a strong squad coop component and a strong MP adversarial component. You cannot build that from a single character arcade game, you can make mods like Insurgency, but, they are just T vs T gametypes, which only represents one component, it is not a real game. You have to have the core game first, not just a pretty game engine, and build environments to suit the gamers.

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I don't think the 'environment' a game engine is capable of producing should be confused with the game 'graphics'.

When i talk about the environs i'm not talking about how nice the grass or bushes or leaves or trees look. I'm talking about the overall aesthetic that is produced, it's somethign that is more than the sum of it's parts and can't be quantified in the usual ways.

When you are in a game world and you feel that you are in a real place in some ways then part of that feeling is achieved by the artistry of the environment as designed by the designer with the right graphics engine.

Just looking at some of the woodland videos on Crysis you can feel how it might be if you palyed GR with that environment.

GRAW doesnt have doors to open, you can't get inside many buildings. It sure has some limitations that take away from the aesthetic of the environment.

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Just looking at some of the woodland videos on Crysis you can feel how it might be if you palyed GR with that environment.

GRAW doesnt have doors to open, you can't get inside many buildings. It sure has some limitations that take away from the aesthetic of the environment.

Gr1 was the same way as GRAW(not many buildings to go inside). Btw you can get in buildings the maps just weren't made that way.. I do believe that was done so you don't have to crawl inside EVERY building looking for someone. Remember on Avenues for example they are all sky scrapers. Would you really like going room to room in each building in a 10 minute round, that the objective is to take over as many zones as you can?I for one would not.

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I cannot argue the rich look of the graphics and landscapes of Crysis, I think that game engines like this and others are wasted on the brainless gameplay that these games feature. For me, its all about the gameplay, that is why I still play GR and why people play OFP. It would be nice to have a new game with a great graphics engine and great squad based tactical gameplay. For the time being, that game is GRAW.

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Rugg, are you guys thinking about adding a Co-op and SP component ? Many of us here would like that. :)

Yes, we're thinking about those people. I can't comment much about that though. It delves into the details of our "agreement" with Crytek and as of now we can't comment about specifics.

There's a lot more to a game than hiding in the grass. There has to be a game to begin with, a solid squad based tactical SP game, with a strong squad coop component and a strong MP adversarial component. You cannot build that from a single character arcade game, you can make mods like Insurgency, but, they are just T vs T gametypes, which only represents one component, it is not a real game. You have to have the core game first, not just a pretty game engine, and build environments to suit the gamers.

I think you're being a bit myopic by focusing on one comment. There's more to being able to hide in the grass. Have you played OE? 3 m/p TVT gametypes. We took the arcade out of FarCry. The game didn't resemble the original in gameplay or feel. We fixed the m/p too. You could play with a 300 ping and it played as well as [GR] did with the same pings.

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"unless BSR makes another half-assed attempt at OE... not likely."

BSR did not make a half-assed attempt an OE...The Polishing Weevils did. Some BSR members are on the mod team, and quite a number (along with other clans) tested it. These crews are seperate entities.

I look forward to Crysis and recoding much of it.

I thought about modding GRAW (to who ever mentioned it) but after looking at its structure, perfomance, and depth of Moddability decided not to. Well other than personal tweaks to suit my own taste.

P.S. Whats with the insult? Did one of us touch you in the bad spot or something? I can respect very much people not liking it, but to throw an insult at the group because of that is odd.

Edited by Suli
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Suli i saw your interview as linked from the OE site, you iz a tall ######. ;)

In no way was OE half assed. I'd say it was very close to re creating the GR magic but for me there were just a few things too many that made me lose interest. That's not to say that taking that experience and applying it to OE2 with the Crysis engine you guys can't come up with a fantastic game experience. Now you have less limitations it will be interesting to see what you do.

I too feel that such great engines are wasted on sci fi shooters. God they are so boring after a while but at least FarCry and i presume Crisis are free ranging games and not linear like HL2.

I do hope modders make a bunch of woodland GRAW maps so we can see how it stands up in an environment that we all love plus with TDM. There's room on my hard drive for more than one game.

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th33f, sorry i don't mean to be contentious with you mate but your comment on my post is the one that doesnt make any sense.

My computer doesnt run GRAW correct. But event though Crysis might be released up to a year 'after' GRAW i bet you anything that it will run on my computer. I might have to scale it way down but it will actually run.

Your assumptin that it will need an even better coputer than does GRAW to run is incorrect. To my knowledge, GRAW is the only PC game in recent years that 'can't' run at all on a huge percentage of machines.

i never at all mentioned the original FarCry and i have never compared it to GRAW or said that FarCry is better suited for GR. So i dont know what you mean by mentioning FarCry. I only talked about Crysis which is a new engine. From the videos of both games i feel Crysis is the more GR like engine.

I think poita what is being said is, you can't tell us about a movie(analogy here) if you haven't seen it.

Added: if GRAW has never seen yout hardrive platters, we can ONLY assume that you're basing your opinions on what others are saying...is that too far fetched to say?

Edited by Papa6
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What a stupid topic. No kidding the Crysis engine can render forests/woodland better than the GRAW engine, most of the game takes place in a forest! The GRAW engine can render urban areas much better than the Crysis engine. Why? Because it's an urban tactical shooter.

From your posts, I gathered that these beautifully rendered forests will give you a more Ghost Recon like feel than GRAW. Yea, good luck feeling like you're playing [GR] in that game. Have you even watched the gameplay vids?

Just yesterday I played [GR] and me and a few squad mates blew up a huge, screaming tripod with guns that looked like a cross between a G36 and the battle rifle from H2.

Also, if your computer can run Crysis, it can run GRAW. What the hell are you on? That's like saying you can run FEAR but not HL2. Both are good looking games, but FEAR is more intensive. Both GRAW and Crysis are beautiful games, but Crysis will take more power than GRAW. Again, good look moving through a fully destructible forest when you can't move down a bright, empty street.

Your assumptin that it will need an even better coputer than does GRAW to run is incorrect. To my knowledge, GRAW is the only PC game in recent years that 'can't' run at all on a huge percentage of machines.

The hell? It's called system requirements, Polita. I'd suggest you have a look at GRAW's, as there is no way in hell Crysis wil have lower system requirements than GRAW. Games don't magically not run on comps, as your quote there seems to suggest. You meet the requirements, you get to run the game. (even if it's crap like with a 9600) If you comp can't measure up to GRAW, it will certainly not measure up to a game released a year later in Crysis.

Edited by luger
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"unless BSR makes another half-assed attempt at OE... not likely."

BSR did not make a half-assed attempt an OE...The Polishing Weevils did. Some BSR members are on the mod team, and quite a number (along with other clans) tested it. These crews are seperate entities.

I look forward to Crysis and recoding much of it.

I thought about modding GRAW (to who ever mentioned it) but after looking at its structure, perfomance, and depth of Moddability decided not to. Well other than personal tweaks to suit my own taste.

P.S. Whats with the insult? Did one of us touch you in the bad spot or something? I can respect very much people not liking it, but to throw an insult at the group because of that is odd.

it wasn't an insult, call it an observation. there was so much talk about OE in every GR forum, and it was mostly brought up by BSR members. anyway, they failed as testers then. half-assed testers.

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th33f's comments are a reflection upon me Suli, no one else. He's still holding a grudge. That's neither here nor there. I agree with you Poita, OE had almost the GR feel and I'm proud of what we were able to do with just .lua scripts. Had we had access to the C++ code at the beginning, it would have been a completely different story. But hey, it is what it is and it's representative of what we are capable of.

Except this time we have 2-3x as many coders, modelers, level mappers and artists. We have factory support. And we are looking for the type of [GR] gameplay that stood head and shoulders above the rest. We're looking for that plus some of the other features that made other tac shooters great. We're all gamers, we do this for the love of it and we don't have an UBI or EA telling us we aren't getting paid if we don't meet a deadline. The best part is that if you guys wanna play it then it's free.

As for those of you that are making comments about what kind of environments that CryEngine 2 will be capable and not capable of, you should just hold your thoughts. You do not know. At this stage of the game there are people making speculation and stating those as fact. There are only a couple of us here that really know the truth.

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Just looking at some of the woodland videos on Crysis you can feel how it might be if you palyed GR with that environment.

GRAW doesnt have doors to open, you can't get inside many buildings. It sure has some limitations that take away from the aesthetic of the environment.

Gr1 was the same way as GRAW(not many buildings to go inside). Btw you can get in buildings the maps just weren't made that way.. I do believe that was done so you don't have to crawl inside EVERY building looking for someone. Remember on Avenues for example they are all sky scrapers. Would you really like going room to room in each building in a 10 minute round, that the objective is to take over as many zones as you can?I for one would not.

I'm not familiar with GR1, but for us diehards that enjoy Co-Ops... I think seeking out Tangos in buildings would add a new inspiration and give the Co-Op a new depth. Special Ops is not only going to find enemy locations and taking them out, they also go in search of the terrorists hidden away.

As the game is now, everything is pretty much ground based with very little attitude. The only building I've noticed with any altitude is the Church. There are some other smaller buildings that you can go into, but even then, you really can't go into them.

I would love to see more enterable buildings as it would add what I've already mentioned.

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As the game is now, everything is pretty much ground based with very little attitude. The only building I've noticed with any altitude is the Church. There are some other smaller buildings that you can go into, but even then, you really can't go into them.

I would love to see more enterable buildings as it would add what I've already mentioned.

I agree. You don't have to have everything enterable, just those that add realism to a map as it adds to gameplay. A good example was Embassy from [GR].

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When will these ######ing trolls get the hell out of this forum?

This is 85% of the posts I see in the GRAW forum:

"WAAAAH! GRAW ISN'T A DIRECT CLONE OF [GR]!1!1 GRAW DOESN'T HAVE THE INSANELY ANNOYING GIGANTIC MAPS WHICH CAN BORE YOU!1! WAAAAAH!!!"

And this comes to mind:

This is what I want to do:

I have been playing tom clancy games since about day 1 , I love OGR1 , I never came and posted back then but now GRAW makes me do it. I do it or soon to be did it because I dont like the way its being handled, sold and marketed. I feel suckered , i feel lied to, i feel ignored alond with thousands of people who feel the same way.

Smith my advice to you is to stop posting and go play this broken game. I think all of your posts are a waste of time too. Humans do things in this world to make other humans happy and get a reward. Its obvious that has failed here. If I was happy like you Agent Smith I wouldnt post here at all. I think im soon to be done to cause the latest patch is a POS , i might just give up!!!

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Smith my advice to you is to stop posting and go play this broken game. I think all of your posts are a waste of time too. Humans do things in this world to make other humans happy and get a reward. Its obvious that has failed here. If I was happy like you Agent Smith I wouldnt post here at all. I think im soon to be done to cause the latest patch is a POS , i might just give up!!!

You're telling a modder to stop posting on a forum? How interesting, what a nice sense of logic.

Oh yes, there's also this:

GRAW WASN'T BUILT TO BE THE SUCCESSOR TO [GR].

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Smith my advice to you is to stop posting and go play this broken game. I think all of your posts are a waste of time too. Humans do things in this world to make other humans happy and get a reward. Its obvious that has failed here. If I was happy like you Agent Smith I wouldnt post here at all. I think im soon to be done to cause the latest patch is a POS , i might just give up!!!

You're telling a modder to stop posting on a forum? How interesting, what a nice sense of logic.

Oh yes, there's also this:

GRAW WASN'T BUILT TO BE THE SUCCESSOR TO [GR].

now there is some nice sence of logic right there in your own words smith. your doomed.

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Smith my advice to you is to stop posting and go play this broken game. I think all of your posts are a waste of time too. Humans do things in this world to make other humans happy and get a reward. Its obvious that has failed here. If I was happy like you Agent Smith I wouldnt post here at all. I think im soon to be done to cause the latest patch is a POS , i might just give up!!!

You're telling a modder to stop posting on a forum? How interesting, what a nice sense of logic.

Oh yes, there's also this:

GRAW WASN'T BUILT TO BE THE SUCCESSOR TO [GR].

now there is some nice sence of logic right there in your own words smith. your doomed.

buellsrusx1, why are you posting here if you think the game is broken? Sell it on ebay and move on. And to answer your sig... You alread have what you had... unfortunately everyone has moved on past it so they don't want what you had no more!

Move on my friend before you have a stroke, or buckle up and play some!

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I believe that GR:AW is a GR in it's own right. True, it is not GR1, but that was 5 years ago. ( I began playing the game 4 yrs ago). So just get used to it. Nothing will ever be the same as GR1, but don't knock GR:AW, for it is a good game on its own and, IMHO, deserving of the GR name. UBI soft decided to go in a different direction, Grin was able to deliver, in a very short time. Give the game its' kudos and move on. If you don't like it, don't play it. Granted, I am only a SP person, with MP, don't have a clue. But for the SP player, this is a good, if not great game. Well within the GR realm. :g_withgrin:

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Luger

your reply is very simplistic, you don't seem to understand the concept of 'efficient code' at all. You just assume that if a game looks better then it needs a more powerful system than the game that it looks better than . . . you are incorrect.

Games look great not only because of the power of the system but because of the genius of the coder. If the rendering engine is super efficient and has all kinds of genius tricks then it can render more amazing graphics than anotheer game with 'less' power used.

Obviously the guys at Crytek are some of the best in the biz and their first game FarCry which was pretty darn good from a graphics point of view was only their first outing, a kind of test for them. Now they had some practice the new engine will be more efficient and more optimised.

Simply put, you are wrong. A game that comes out a year after GRAW could very well run on a system that GRAW can not run on.

It's not a staged afair where every game that comes out in subsequent months needs always to have a more powerful system. It's more like a rising stock market graph. The general trend and direction is upward so over time more and more powerful systems are needed but the line also dips sharply sometimes so a game that comes out 6 months or a year later than another game might show better graphics while using less system resources.

GRAW does not run on even decent systems because the graphics engine is not flexible enough to cater to lower settings. A game engine that needs a high end system to run on medium settings is not efficient and flexible. A game that can look superb even on a medium system is something to be admired indeed.

Hope that's not too deep for you dude.

Papa6

why do you think they release movie trailers and movies of games. It's not correct to say that after watching and listening to hours and hours of gameplay footage of GRAW, reading countless reviews, talking with hundreds of people who have played the game that a person can't form an opinion of the game.

Am i wrong in asuming that people are not lying when they say there is currently no TDM in GRAW? If not then i think i dont need to play it to be able to say that most people, including myself, don't consider a GRAW without TDM to be a finished game.

There are many things that i can comment on without yet playing the game. I don't comment on the 'gun in your hand' gameplay because i havent played it yet. but the other stuff i can easily be in the discussion of.

Hmm can' tell you about a movie without seeing it eh. Well, i havn't seen Brokeback Mountain but i can pretty much tell you that it's a movie meant to appeal more to women than men, that it purposely uses characters that are traditionally macho (cowboy types) as a way of shocking, that it brings up the old chestnut of 'societies 'rules' getting in the way of true love as their wives and familes frown on them snogging each other. I can pretty much based on reviews, clips, previews, knowledge of the quality of the actors previous work tell you that it will be quite a competent drama yet make you feel uneasy whe you see the blokes sticking their toungues in each others mouths and for those more cerebral that you will not really be able to settle into the story as yo will constantly feel that you are being preached at in some way.

Fortunatly demos (the ones that work that is) go one step better than movie previews and let us experience a game. I don't think you just stumble into random movies though do you mate. Now and again you might decide not to see a movie and later watch it and find it to be ok after all but more often than not you will choose not to see it and even though you catch it on cable you will tell yourself that you were right not to spend 8 bucks on it.

er, yes, we can know with reasonable certainty what a media product will be like without experiencing it due to the absolute deluge of information available.

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By the way, thought you all might like this pic released by Crytek. It is public and is actually from gamespot.com. Don't know about you, but I was hoping GRAW was going to have some levels that looked like this

93166520060630screen0040krsmal.jpg

Well, I think that is too much for GRiN to handle. You figure it was difficult enough for them to use outdated graphics sugar-coated with HDR that isn't as great as Half Life 2's but yet eats your FPS like a fat kid eating cake at a birthday party. No offense but, RedStorm would have definitely done a better job with GRAW PC had it been on their agenda. Also selling an unfinished game that has yet to be completed through small patches with little or no result.

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