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Well you guys can sit around and wait for what *you* think will be "The true GR1 sequel".

Or you can have fun with what has been given to us.

I could of swore I spent $50+ on this game. Given? You make it sound as if GRIN and UBI are doing us a favor here.

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here's one thing about GR1. Even after four or more years of playing online i would still jump right out of my skin (ok, chair) sometimes when i got shot. it wasn't the sound of the enemy's firearm which could be quite far off so i wouldnt hear it all the time. It was the thump of the rounds hitting me and more importantly the tension that had built up just before i was hit.

I mean, it was a massive shock sometimes and would have me jerking my whole body att he surprise and usually cursing aftewards and sometimes laughing.

In GR1 MP, every single time i got hit felt like a massive set back to some ground i had been making in the round and every time i got a kill felt like a massive relief and thrill. Every other game is just like an ongoing mild satisfaction whenever you get a kill and no big deal when you get killed.

That's just one element of GR1 that we wanted in GRAW, there are others.

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If most servers on [GR] had infinite respawns, we would basically have the same game. Little different in some areas, but overall the same game.

I remember playing on a few servers where this was the case, and it was nothing but running around racking up the kills. Tactics were thrown out the window with the Terminator attitude of " Ill Be Back".

I have played in a few servers that had no respawns in GRAW, and i must say Domination mode kicks it up a level that way.

If all the servers were to turn spawns off, and make the total player count a tad smaller, maybe 10 per team, you would see a different game.

One last thing. i would bet my last dollar that the reason most servers dont have no respawns running is the lack of a death cam, or whatever you call it. Its hard to keep people intrested in a game when they have no connection to the people still playing.

Edited by Judge_Recluse
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Ubersoldier, what you must realise is that this is not GR1 this is GRAW.it was never ever meant to be just like gr1.if it was just like gr1, why not just play gr1?

Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

When one buys a sequel, one expects in good faith for it to be a an improved continuation of the original title. Thats why you call it a sequel. Thats why it carrries the title of its prediscessor.

If CIV 5 was a warcraft clone, would you accept the argument that "people wanted a NEW game, they have already played CIV 1-4! If they wanted to play CIV, they can play the earlier games."?

Lucas tried the EXACT same thing with the Star Wars prequels. They were too different from the original. People were told if they wanted the old star wars just go back and watch the original, and they did.

The fact that GR:AW has deviated to far from its roots is a perfectly valid complaint. I don't particularly care why, or whose fault it was either. But you should own up to it, and stop with this BS straw man argument. Its getting old hat.

In all due respect to the GRIN team...

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here's one thing about GR1. Even after four or more years of playing online i would still jump right out of my skin (ok, chair) sometimes when i got shot. it wasn't the sound of the enemy's firearm which could be quite far off so i wouldnt hear it all the time. It was the thump of the rounds hitting me and more importantly the tension that had built up just before i was hit.

I mean, it was a massive shock sometimes and would have me jerking my whole body att he surprise and usually cursing aftewards and sometimes laughing.

In GR1 MP, every single time i got hit felt like a massive set back to some ground i had been making in the round and every time i got a kill felt like a massive relief and thrill. Every other game is just like an ongoing mild satisfaction whenever you get a kill and no big deal when you get killed.

That's just one element of GR1 that we wanted in GRAW, there are others.

You hit the nail on the head there Poita. That is exactly what I meant by my last post. Its nice to know I wasnt the only one that played GR1 that liked or even noticed that aspect of it. A great game is like a great movie. There is a plot, then there is the journey to get to it, then there is the TENSION throughout for how it will end.

GR1 did that well, right after spawning you were constantly aware of every move you made, watching your teammates back. You had a plan of where you wanted to go, and new where your teamate was going. There was TENSION while trying to fullfill the planning and strategy if someone was going to pop up from behind a car, or had you on map. Then when things did go wrong and you were getting really into it, you are practically thrown outta your chair. Personally GR:AW doesnt do that for me.

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One last thing. i would bet my last dollar that the reason most servers dont have no respawns running is the lack of a death cam, or whatever you call it. Its hard to keep people intrested in a game when they have no connection to the people still playing.

I totally agree. I see this happen all the time on servers with 'only' 3 respawns. As soon as players are really death, they leave the server. Deathcam would be a welcome addition.

As for this topic, i partly agree. If a game doesn't have a solid Multiplayer option at launch, it will never have the popularity as other titles. This 1.16 patch was a hell of a disapointment for me. I feel that right now the game is still going downhill, BUT! i wont just abandon the ship yet. I'll wait for the other 2 patches to arrive and then i'll make my final decision.

Only thing that really bothers me is that when the other 2 patches are finally out, GRAW will be in the "3 games for 20 bucks corner" while i paid 40 bucks for a not finished product. :shifty:

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I'm definitely not a fan of the death cam...

However, if you are going to have the death cam, then I say make it no respawns also... Kind of like you are looking at the guy that shot you as you are dying.

To another point... I say that the death cam should be an optional item that you can select to have on your server if you want it or not.

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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

and some of us do appreciate that :g_withgrin:

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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

and some of us do appreciate that :g_withgrin:

Which isn't shown by a lot of the people here.

But I hope they know I appreciate their work. :)

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I used to play BF2 and I guess you could say that I would Run and Gun and now I play GRAW. I can tell you that the same tactic if runninf and gunning sucks. I find it difficult to make kills and since I;ve played BF2 i want to always be in the thick of the action which is scarce on a Dom map.

But there is tension in GRAW for me at least that tension is Running halfway across the map and starrting to fight only to die and have to run again. That running is what keeps me on my toes.

This Game takes some getting used to because of its tactical slowness. It also depends on the background of the gamer who plays this game. But as for me I will play this until Armed Assault come out then play this game a little less often like i do with BF2

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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

now this is a post. the mother of them all :grin1:

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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

This post pretty much sums it up.

PC Gaming is a dying format. I doubt if there will be a GR4 for this medium and many other games are also following this trend.

The trick here is to pick the package which suits you best and mod it to your taste.

The most likely scenario here is that the "Captain is dead/ mission over" command is modded out of the game and maps are made which do not lend themselves to linear gameplay.

It is ridiculous to try to bend a mass marketing exercise to your will.

Most of the people posting here are in the minority, work from the other angle:

You have a platform and an editor (with hopefully more tools to come) and some friendly developers

Make the game your own

(edit: oops, we must have posted together, pretty much what he said :rolleyes: )

Edited by Phlookian
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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

I think you guys made an excellent game, and came out way ahead of te bell curve considering what you guys have to deal with. I really enjoy playing GR:AW, and modding it. But I geuss the point I was trying to make, is that GR:AW will always be compared to GR1, because its a GR game. Fair or unfair as that might be, thats life and the nature of a sequel. Any liscensed movie such as X-Men or Bloodrayne will always be compared to the souce material, iregardless of how good (or bad) the actual product is. Its not the consumers fault to expect a sequel to be true to the original any more than its GRINS fault that the game differs from the original.

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I appreciate the post from GRIN willie. I think that what he was talking about, UBI...the game...where it was going, etc. would be THE story of the YEAR! I would really love to hear the real deal about this game and some of the battles that took place. Perhaps the community would have a better appreciation for not just the GRIN team, but the game itself.

He hinted that just some things would NOT be changed however much we the community wanted. UBI has the last word. There were other things that have been changed, for us, that took some doing and probably some real yelling matches.

I like the game. I never expected another "upgraded" version of GR1. I was disappointed with some things, but they have made great strides to increase the playability of the game for us, and THAT speaks volumes about the GRIN team. Besides, with at least 2 more additional content packages, this will be a game to play for a long time.

I guess you can call me a 'fan-boy' of GRIN. So what? I still enjoy the game and especially love the Co-Op.

.............................. :g_withgrin: .....................kingkat

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Gosh Wille, i guess i knew you guys had tried to persuade UBI to develop GRAW PC a bit more hardcore but i didnt realise you had really gone to bad for us that hard, especially Bo. I feel a bit bad now about how much stick we have given you guys. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Grin must have been under some stress with UBI (who i like to call screwbi or noobi) on one side and the ranting fans on the other.

Let Bo know that even if we are not totally satisfied with GRAW, we appreciate totally his and GRINS efforts for us.

How about GRIN breaking away from the licencing relationhip with UBI and taking their experience and developing their own full blown tac shooter. I'll buy it in 2008.

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Personally i think GR:AW a good game and is getting even better with the last patch.

Just wait till the end of the summer and we`ll have an excellent game(hopefully)

I would just like to say WELL DONE and THANK YOU for this game( and get your fingers out and give us the dedi files :rofl::rofl::rofl: )

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Gosh Wille, i guess i knew you guys had tried to persuade UBI to develop GRAW PC a bit more hardcore but i didnt realise you had really gone to bad for us that hard, especially Bo. I feel a bit bad now about how much stick we have given you guys. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. Grin must have been under some stress with UBI (who i like to call screwbi or noobi) on one side and the ranting fans on the other.

Let Bo know that even if we are not totally satisfied with GRAW, we appreciate totally his and GRINS efforts for us.

How about GRIN breaking away from the licencing relationhip with UBI and taking their experience and developing their own full blown tac shooter. I'll buy it in 2008.

:grin1: I'd buy GRINS next tac shooter.

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OK men we have lost this ship and this battle. This game had the potential and the community's input were did it go wrong, I don't know but is mainly the publisher's fault by giving the job to a team of guys with very little experience. I know Grin did their best, but their best wasn't good enough. I said it before no patches were going to fix this game. I know some of you will get upset but what else is there tell me. TDM is not going to save this game. It will be the same 200 players until they realize that it's a failure.

The only way we could get a true sequel is if the original dev team for GR makes another version.

It's sad to read posts like this, none constructive, comparing GR1 after 5 yrs to GRAW after 6 weeks !!!

'Uber' there's a contradiction in terms, ultimate, I don't think so, or why are you

one of a minority that is in the none-constructive camp, it's a long road.... but GRin is one of a few devs. that I've been able to give feedback to so openly.

It's a bumpy start but it will pick up , and be what it wanted to be.

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Now I like GR:AW and all, and certainly don't advocate people abandoning it, but trying to keep up this line of argument is just shooting yourself in the foot.

Im just saying that in the end, it wont play excactly like gr1(unless someone mods it ofcourse) it will be diffrent. better to some.worse to some(mainly the old hardcore gr1 players I think), its called change and sometimes we just have to accept it.

the Casual gamer that actually IS the largest buyers group, doesnt care one iota if it plays like gr1 or not. they play the sp game and put it on the shelf with the rest of their games.

Thats how most people play games.

Whatever changes we do to the game to please you guys to make it closer to the gr1 experience we do pretty much do against the will of Ubi or atleast have to take a huge battle with them to get through and into the game.(I cant name any specific features..as I dont know how much im allowed to say, legally) but I think you would be VERY suprised how the game would have been if Ubi had gotten their will through on all points...we (bo especially ofcourse) has fought many tough battles to take it away from a clean console port and closer to what you consider "gr". Obviously it hasnt been taken all the way but you would whine and moan ALOT more if Grin hadnt been so persistent on certain points...

and we do it for YOU. the people here in this relativley small(on comparison to the amount of people buying the game in total) community.

So if they dont care if it plays like GR1 or not, why wouldnt it be made to statisfy the hardcore GR players?

Obviously it makes a difference to us how the game plays, but not them. So why arent we the most important?

They will buy the game and play it and put it on a shelf no matter what, right?

We wont. We play for YEARS, if its what we like.

I dont blame it on you guys, I blame Ubi.

They are ######ty, I think all they are doing is trying to kill their PC gaming market to shift everyone to consol.

Im not going to fall into their hands.

Ill always play PC games, even if it means playing 10 year old games.

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OK men we have lost this ship and this battle. This game had the potential and the community's input were did it go wrong, I don't know but is mainly the publisher's fault by giving the job to a team of guys with very little experience. I know Grin did their best, but their best wasn't good enough. I said it before no patches were going to fix this game. I know some of you will get upset but what else is there tell me. TDM is not going to save this game. It will be the same 200 players until they realize that it's a failure.

The only way we could get a true sequel is if the original dev team for GR makes another version.

It's sad to read posts like this, none constructive, comparing GR1 after 5 yrs to GRAW after 6 weeks !!!

'Uber' there's a contradiction in terms, ultimate, I don't think so, or why are you

one of a minority that is in the none-constructive camp, it's a long road.... but GRin is one of a few devs. that I've been able to give feedback to so openly.

It's a bumpy start but it will pick up , and be what it wanted to be.

Its sad to see people bashing someone for posting their own personal opinion about how they feel about a video game. What the hell do you want him to do? He doesnt like it, Im sure he wants to like the game. I know I do. Do you suggest everyone who doesnt like the game to get hypnotized or something into thinking like you? No matter what reason, the game still did not turn out to be a "GHOST RECON" like game. Im sure most of it was because of UBI, they havent been the same since the EA merge. It really doesnt matter who or what caused the game to be like it is. Everyone has a right to gripe about something they paid 50 bucks for aftter it was hyped up to be "the next game of the year". :stupid:

Edited by VeLocityChaos
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OK men we have lost this ship and this battle. This game had the potential and the community's input were did it go wrong, I don't know but is mainly the publisher's fault by giving the job to a team of guys with very little experience. I know Grin did their best, but their best wasn't good enough. I said it before no patches were going to fix this game. I know some of you will get upset but what else is there tell me. TDM is not going to save this game. It will be the same 200 players until they realize that it's a failure.

The only way we could get a true sequel is if the original dev team for GR makes another version.

It's sad to read posts like this, none constructive, comparing GR1 after 5 yrs to GRAW after 6 weeks !!!

'Uber' there's a contradiction in terms, ultimate, I don't think so, or why are you

one of a minority that is in the none-constructive camp, it's a long road.... but GRin is one of a few devs. that I've been able to give feedback to so openly.

It's a bumpy start but it will pick up , and be what it wanted to be.

Its sad to see people bashing someone for posting their own personal opinion about how they feel about a video game. What the hell do you want him to do? He doesnt like it, Im sure he wants to like the game. I know I do. Do you suggest everyone who doesnt like the game to get hypnotized or something into thinking like you? No matter what reason, the game still did not turn out to be a "GHOST RECON" like game. Im sure most of it was because of UBI, they havent been the same since the EA merge. It really doesnt matter who or what caused the game to be like it is. Everyone has a right to gripe about something they paid 50 bucks for aftter it was hyped up to be "the next game of the year". :stupid:

I suggest everyone that does not like the game and starts threads that SAY ABANDON SHIP !!! THE GAME SUCKS to get more constructive or leave !!!! SIMPLE . I'm not bashing him for saying how he feels but because he is stating it's time to abandon ship.

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It will be the same 200 players until they realize that it's a failure.

on our server stats, we have had 543 different players... that's our server alone! Also that is in the 2 weeks we have had it up - the 3 days the stats were down while being updated for the new patch.

If you don't believe me, check it... http://www.attackforcez.com/index.php?modu...age=ServerStats

543 as of today.

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