^}Attica{^ Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 (edited) Has anyone found a way to stop the host death/gameover end of COOP? Cause that is seriously ruining the fun level. Cause the only guy we play with that can host worth a darn is also the worst player. No tot mention the fact that if you are the host you have to stay way back and basically not really even play. PLEASE PLEASE FIX THIS cause i am seriously Edited June 20, 2006 by Colin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaMBaM Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Just a thought.... Maybe there is a way to make the host invulnerable??,.. and then use an extra computer to host the game for the inactive invulnerable host? Sadly, that limits the game play to only three real players,... but it is better than that foolish idea of ending the game when leader dies. How could Grin ever think of such a ridiculous awkward setup in the first place? That kind of original thinking from Grin, makes me very pessimistic about any serious good coop features ever coming from Grin. They really do not have a clue as to what serious coop play is all about, as played at Alpha Squad and Tactical Gamer, and a few other hard core clans. The eventual playability of this game in a serious coop mode, will probably lie only within the hands of our FANTASTIC community modders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 (edited) Just a thought.... Maybe there is a way to make the host invulnerable??,.. and then use an extra computer to host the game for the inactive invulnerable host? Sadly, that limits the game play to only three real players,... but it is better than that foolish idea of ending the game when leader dies. How could Grin ever think of such a ridiculous awkward setup in the first place? That kind of original thinking from Grin, makes me very pessimistic about any serious good coop features ever coming from Grin. They really do not have a clue as to what serious coop play is all about, as played at Alpha Squad and Tactical Gamer, and a few other hard core clans. The eventual playability of this game in a serious coop mode, will probably lie only within the hands of our FANTASTIC community modders. I'm with GRIN for the COOP mode... I do agree however, having the mission end because the host got killed, is nothing short of ridiculous... Not sure having the host invulnerable is the way to go as well... But, a limited respawn may help the ghost to protect the host and all to proceed with caution... Will also remind members to work as team, the way the game is supposed to be played... Edited June 15, 2006 by Stormin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WilPoPson Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Maybe in Coop the Host/Leader could get some sort of weapon that only he/she can carry, or just give him/her more body armor, or a drone. wilPoPson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuTHlezz1 Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Well future patch 1.XX will have the original GR coop with respawns so just hang in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaMBaM Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Stormin, If I understand you correctly,... you have played,... or, are now playing,... or, will be very very soon, playing a lot of real GR1 coop games with Alpha Squad and / or Tactical Gamer so that you will know from where we speak? Honestly Stormin, if you are indeed serious about your job title, you really must see the real possibilities of the Ghost Recon coop experience thru the eyes of either of these two organizations, or at least a serious clan who has seriously followed these team's coop game styles. Neither you nor all of GRIN will ever understand GRAW's coop possibilities while standing from the outside looking in. Stormin, please,.. if you have already paid your "Team Coop" dues with such true and serious "team work" type coop play, then please let us know! OK? Also I am confused,..., you do recognize how ridiculous the "leader death/ mission ends" fiasco is,.. and you do work with GRIN on coop,... so WHY is it there?.. Just because GRIN delegates to us an intelligent and experienced local ambassador to our good suggestions and complaints,.. it doesn't mean that this good local ambassador has the ability to cause any necessary significant improvements to the coop game. e.g... the "leader death / mission ends" fiasco! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kakanater Posted June 14, 2006 Share Posted June 14, 2006 Just a thought.... Maybe there is a way to make the host invulnerable??,.. and then use an extra computer to host the game for the inactive invulnerable host? Sadly, that limits the game play to only three real players,... but it is better than that foolish idea of ending the game when leader dies. How could Grin ever think of such a ridiculous awkward setup in the first place? That kind of original thinking from Grin, makes me very pessimistic about any serious good coop features ever coming from Grin. They really do not have a clue as to what serious coop play is all about, as played at Alpha Squad and Tactical Gamer, and a few other hard core clans. The eventual playability of this game in a serious coop mode, will probably lie only within the hands of our FANTASTIC community modders. I'm with GRIN for the COOP mode... I do agree however, having the mission end because the host got killed, is nothing short of ridiculous... Not sure having the host invulnerable is the way to go as well... But, a limited respawn may help the ghost to protect the host and all to proceed with caution... Will also remind members work as team, the way the game is supposed to be played... LAst part is a good idea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormin Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) Stormin, If I understand you correctly,... you have played,... or, are now playing,... or, will be very very soon, playing a lot of real GR1 coop games with Alpha Squad and / or Tactical Gamer so that you will know from where we speak? Honestly Stormin, if you are indeed serious about your job title, you really must see the real possibilities of the Ghost Recon coop experience thru the eyes of either of these two organizations, or at least a serious clan who has seriously followed these team's coop game styles. Neither you nor all of GRIN will ever understand GRAW's coop possibilities while standing from the outside looking in. Stormin, please,.. if you have already paid your "Team Coop" dues with such true and serious "team work" type coop play, then please let us know! OK? Also I am confused,..., you do recognize how ridiculous the "leader death/ mission ends" fiasco is,.. and you do work with GRIN on coop,... so WHY is it there?.. Just because GRIN delegates to us an intelligent and experienced local ambassador to our good suggestions and complaints,.. it doesn't mean that this good local ambassador has the ability to cause any necessary significant improvements to the coop game. e.g... the "leader death / mission ends" fiasco! Yes, I have played GR1 for a few yrs in the past with a few friends... I have since removed it from my pc do to lack of interest by the group.. It was and still is one of the better games out there... Seriously, we played when we all felt like it... I was not one to dedicate myself to a particular time schedule to play... I do have a life too... Well, for the most part I do... lol Though, I am an active clan member of another 1st person shooter game, which I play as the mood strikes... I haven't checked out Tactical Gamer or Alpha Squad yet, but will do so soon... Well, I do not work with GRIN on coop... I just happen to like that style of gameplay and will support GRIN till they get it right.. And they will as patience is the virtue here... Ambassador you say??? I like that title... lol So be it... I like GRAW coop gameplay, (minus the leader death / mission ends" fiasco!) and I will continue to support them till it's finished... Then again, finished is in the eyes of the beholder... With the mods soon to come out, it will be a long time before GRAW simmers down in my eyes... Maybe it's time to fire up GR1 again and get another taste of battle... Edited June 15, 2006 by Stormin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent_op Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 My Opinion: I don't think I'm very far from the mark on this one... GRIN has already told us that they only had 1.5 years to work on GR:AW. With that said UBI wanted everything (all platform versions) released by a certain time. It would seem clear that GRIN worked on the SP then started the MP (CO-OP and Domination). With such a short time frame to work in, they released something that would be "playable". 4 Player CO-OP on the same exact missions as the SP mode would seem to be the fastest thing to release for CO-OP. The SP missions only use 4 Ghosts. The CO-OP that we currently have is nothing more than a slightly altered SP mode (obvious to all of us from the start). The Captain's death ending the game is clearly another carry over from the SP mode. Leaving the mission area is yet again from the SP mode. Just about everything that "we" dislike in the current GR:AW CO-OP is due the fact that we are using modifiyed single player missions. I bet a lot of those annoying aspects are mission scripted and not "hard coded" in the engine. Think back to the 360 GR:AW. Even the great lunch box has 4 player CO-OP on the campaign missions. Although they do have 16 player CO-OP in special CO-OP made maps. If GRIN had the same amount of time to work on GR:AW as RedStorm did with the 360 GR:AW, the game would be complete. All that we would most likely have are usual some small patches. I don't agree with the way PC GR:AW was handled, but it is the reality. The other reality is that GRIN is commited to GR:AW (backed by UBI ) for 1 year. Through out the summer, we will be getting all the missing parts. UBI must have known that GR:AW would not be complete. Which is why they even had a plan set for GRIN to "complete" PC GR:AW. Although, I'm sure that this was all based on how well the PC GR:AW's sales would be. Sales must have been good enough. silent_op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2nd Ranger Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 (edited) Stormin, If I understand you correctly,... you have played,... or, are now playing,... or, will be very very soon, playing a lot of real GR1 coop games with Alpha Squad and / or Tactical Gamer so that you will know from where we speak? Honestly Stormin, if you are indeed serious about your job title... [...] ...Also I am confused,..., you do recognize how ridiculous the "leader death/ mission ends" fiasco is,.. and you do work with GRIN on coop,... so WHY is it there? When he said "I'm with GRIN on the co-op", he meant he supported them, not that he works with them. Edited June 15, 2006 by 2nd Ranger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 I would hazard a guess that this wish will be granted, after all it makes sence. I would suggest though that this game type is ok as well, as it stands, its the option I suspect will be added not to lose the mission. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaMBaM Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 2nd Ranger, Yes thanks, Ranger. I well understand such double talk, and the common motivations for it.... In high school I was often "with the band," when ever I was trying to gain access into a music club without paying. The problem remains that we are left with a game designer ( GRIN), who has no real game knowledge with the type of game play that made the PC version of GR1 such a great and unique 'team coop' experience. I am sure that GRIN thinks of coop as something played with players fearlessly running around, trying to get the most kills, and then constantly 'respawning' after dying. Anyone who sees this type of play as "coop," is in real need of some serious re-education. ( GRIN and all "Consultants" included). For most of us 'team coop' players, the idea of a team member moving without team cohesion and communication, or 'respawning' after dying, is as ridiculous as having the mission end after the leader's death. Once again,,,,, I think the future for any real "team coop' capabilities with GRAW, will lie completely within the hands of our great modders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 Once again,,,,, I think the future for any real "team coop' capabilities with GRAW, will lie completely within the hands of our great modders. This will not be the case. Grin have been and always were aware of what GR1 was about, but can only produce what they are told to. Modders will however improve and add to what we get between now and August. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loominous Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 One big problem, caused by the initial game design, is the audio track, which has Mitchell as a named recipient. I suppose additional audio could be recorded, with the name excluded, but I doubt UBI would be very thrilled at the prospect. Course, they could just skip the audio/video sequences and go with simple text messages, but I suspect this would violate the doctrine that all modern game developers adhere to: Audio-visuals über alles! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silent_op Posted June 15, 2006 Share Posted June 15, 2006 One big problem, caused by the initial game design, is the audio track, which has Mitchell as a named recipient. I suppose additional audio could be recorded, with the name excluded, but I doubt UBI would be very thrilled at the prospect. Course, they could just skip the audio/video sequences and go with simple text messages, but I suspect this would violate the doctrine that all modern game developers adhere to: Audio-visuals über alles! UBI just needs to keep paying GRIN thats all. Don't worry about audio files. When we can make custom CO-OP missions I'm sure it will be like GR1. Like GR1 in regards to being able to use existing files (audio, models, skins, etc) or custom ones. Modding will always be our tool of expression for any game. silent_op Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desert Rat Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 The problem remains that we are left with a game designer ( GRIN), who has no real game knowledge with the type of game play that made the PC version of GR1 such a great and unique 'team coop' experience. I am sure that GRIN thinks of coop as something played with players fearlessly running around, trying to get the most kills, and then constantly 'respawning' after dying. Anyone who sees this type of play as "coop," is in real need of some serious re-education. ( GRIN and all "Consultants" included). For most of us 'team coop' players, the idea of a team member moving without team cohesion and communication, or 'respawning' after dying, is as ridiculous as having the mission end after the leader's death. Once again,,,,, I think the future for any real "team coop' capabilities with GRAW, will lie completely within the hands of our great modders. I've been playing GR1 co-op since it's inception. Over the years my gaming time has slowly become limited to two evenings per week due to family member additions (lol) and some secondary freelance work for a small software developer. So I play Saturdays with a tight group of experienced players (the "old guys" all 35+ that abide to the stringent hardcore style that "most of us" as you so aptly state co-op should be played;. No respawns, strong tactical teamwork, Teamspeak communication, pretty much maxed difficulty for missions and a few select mods to add to the challenge. However, I also get together on Friday nights with a larger group of gaming buddies and we pretty much rotate thru a few games that have become favorites (Recon, Flatout, Day of Defeat, MCM2/MVA). This is quite a mixed group of FPS guys & Gearheads. The thing is we all enjoy the variety that each game offers although some excessive suds consumption often helps to ramp up the enthusiasm at times . I basically refer to Fridays as my party gaming night and believe me we always have a blast. Everyone is hooked together on Teamspeak so there's also plenty of trashtalking going on as well. Ok, so getting to my point. It took a little effort to get everyone in this group to buy into playing Recon as TDM and LMS didn't go over very well since the die and your out style wasn't very popular with them. I then decided to host a team co-op mode with unlimited respawns, a higher volume of baddies and HX5 (just for the sheer number of great weapon kits) set to Vet diff level. BAM!!! Next thing I know Recon becomes our primary game of choice for months on end thanks to the customization options available to tailor co-op play to fit the higher paced action these guys were looking for (notably the handful of DOD guys) and a little bit of tactical play. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that even though I agree with the traditional Recon co-op that "most of us" here at recon.net demand you have to understand that we only account for a small percentage of the total copies sold at retail. GRIN is making a wise choice by stating that they will be including the same options in the upcoming MP patch for GRAW as those found in [GR]. As much as "most of us" snub our noses at the idea of respawns like it's taboo there is potentially as many or more buyers of the game who may fall into the casual gamer column that may have the opposite thoughts regarding respawns in co-op mode. These are the same folks who prefer TFC, HL1/2DM and DOD(source) over CS because they would rather get back into the action ASAP as a reinforcement rather than sit out the remaining time of rounds after taking an early headshot. I'd much prefer giving the user the choice of how they'd like to configure the play style rather than force limits. I sure am personally glad that the guys at RSE were smart enough to include an excellent number of server options or I would have missed out on some great gaming fun that I otherwise would've never experienced. Excluding a simple option like respawning just because the hardcore supporters deem it blasphemy would be a classic glass half empty decision. Kudos to GRIN for realizing that it's a better business decision to cater to the preferences of ALL their customers rather than a select group. Rat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaMBaM Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 Rat,.. Very well said. Thanx mucho. I didn't mean to dis that common style of 'coop' play. (and I think I probably did just that). I am trying to emphasize how extremely special and unique the GR1 game was for making the ' team coop' concept work. And that is why many of us are so worried about the product that GRIN, or UBI, or whoever have delivered to us so far. The fun style of run and gun coop that you describe so well, is something available within many many different 1st. person shooters. The game experience that the 'team coop' believers found within GR1, is completely unique,... and we are very worried that this newer version of GR, will not allow a continuation of that more serious style of game play. Nothing that has come out of this new version of GRAW, shows that the game developers are even slightly aware of GR1's legacy as the great vehicle for 'team coop' play. And these game developers will never understand this legacy until we can grab one or two of them and actually get them to play this style of game. The window of opportunity will soon close on this game. And with it, will go any chance to make GRAW a real legitimate continuation of that special GR1 game experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chiles4 Posted June 16, 2006 Share Posted June 16, 2006 BamBam, I'm also one of those "hard-core" co-op players whose style of gameplay is the one you like and are writing about. I play ALOT of [GR] co-op but I was never able to implement this team style of co-op in [GR] simply because I only played with one buddy and [GR] had no game browser. I would have liked to play with 4 or 5 guys in "team-coop" style to see how [GR] played. I would imagine it would have been very challenging given the enemy AI's superhuman reflexes and accuracy. But luckily, I was able to fully experience team-coop in the game VietCong. There were servers/clans that were completely dedicated to team-coop play and they ran "zero-tolerance" servers. This meant that if you were a run-and-gunner or did not comply with orders from the team leader, you were kicked. This gameplay style and the way it worked so well with VietCong gave me the most memorable gaming moments of my life. It was simply amazing to watch how having a good team leader and having the players work together created a MUCH more of an effective fighting force. Some of the groups involved were from www.teamcoop.net and www.6thsense.eu . But the point I want to get to is that I think the only "tool" needed to achieve this is having the option for "teamrespawn" (no respawns until everyone is dead) and a bunch of guys dedicated to the concept. I'm hoping that when the [GR] version of co-op comes out with the patch, that this option will be part of that. The thing about playing in the team-coop style is that it's contagious. When "noobs" join and see how co-op should really be played, they become converts and pretty soon they're telling the run-and-gunners to "cool it" or go somewhere else. I'm not saying this is the only way to play co-op. Sometimes trying to hold off 140 tangoes in Red Square can be fun too but if you're a co-op fan, give team-coop (or teamrespawn as we called it) a go if you get the chance. In games like VietCong and even SWAT 4, we used to put the word 'Teamrespawn' or 'Teamplay' in the server name so people would know. If you run a teamplay server, you have to rule it with an iron hand but pretty soon people know and flock to your server and the run-and-gunners either convert or stay away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 18, 2006 Share Posted June 18, 2006 I'm hoping they fix this in the June update. I hate this feature of the game as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleArd Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 I'm hoping they fix this in the June update. I hate this feature of the game as well. Don't hold your breath mate, it's not in the June release. The best we can hope for is late July Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 19, 2006 Share Posted June 19, 2006 (edited) Well it would be nice to know if this is something they plan on fixing or if it can't be done. There are about 20 Ghost Recon fans in the group I belong to and only about three have bought the game so far. The rest are waiting to see if this issue and others get fixed. The main agreement between the ones who have not bought is if they can't fix this one issue alone they are not going to buy GR:AW. Edited June 20, 2006 by Fletch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 An answer to the co-op question would be nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoubleArd Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 As far as I can make out, the nearest there's been to an official definitive answer on this issue is this: Throughout the summer: Team Deathmatch, Hamburger Hill modes, Original GR co-op mode, Map editor for TDM, HH, [GR] co-op, GRAW co-op improvement (quick start and respawn) and Dedicated Server pack The original GR coop mode is all coop players ask for, just wth all the lovely stuff GRAW has to offer... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fletch Posted June 20, 2006 Share Posted June 20, 2006 Thanks, I missed that. I hope they work on that next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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