Damage system

[Joseph_Q]

I made small clip to present my point -> http://cert-clan.com/download/GRAW-damage-system.wmv

Edited May 26, 2006 by Joseph_Q

[ROCO*AFZ*]

Good clip.

I did notice the leg twitch a little when you hit it. That means physics is possible. Just need turned on.

[KeeKee]

I've never thought that this may happen, lol

BTW. That leg-dance when shot looks very impressive ;P

[Colin]

Vid needs to be download, to be a viable pass on please.

[Joseph_Q]

Vid needs to be download, to be a viable pass on please.

Done

[Colin]

Passed on cheers.

[Peace]

Nice movie

This is an extremely important issue that has several aspects (here in priority, in my opinion):

1) Immediate and transient punishment/effect in the moment when when hit

It is no good that you can fire back with exact aim as if nothing has happened

- please, we want reticule/view to be changed “knocked off” as in [GR]

- please, we want random fall (like AI do in SP) especially when hit in leg

2) Immersive sound of being hit

Picture yourself being eg. sniped…and hearing a really scary scary dull ‘thud’ sound and your view is twitched in the exact same moment. As it is now you receive a faint electric “tzzz” and you just die…how boring is that?

- please, we want the scary 'thud' sound from [GR] back

Discussion thread here:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34323

Guys,

just a little note on this - we realize taking hits could be more immersive and it's being looked into.

S

GRIN has promised to look at this issue , but it doesn’t hurt to remind the developers how important this is to profile GRAW further against the 'common mainstream military FPS' If they get atleast no 1) and 2) (see above)

3) Hit zones (in the body)- different effect

I still haven't really figured out how this works, but you shouldn't survive a face shot (which has been reported). Personally I have no opinion here at the moment

4) Permanent/long lasting punishment/effect of being wounded

tricky issue but I hope GRIN can come up with something that is noticeable & balanced that doesn’t need tons of animations

- no run?

- Slow ret/lot of sway when aiming?

- Heavy breathing?

Earlier post by Desmond22 explaining why no limp:

Well, you'd expect a guy who has been shot in the leg to be able to do all the things a non-wounded player can - just not with as much grace - so since we have such huge amounts of human animations in the game (close to 4000), adding limps would double (or even triple, if you should be able to limp on both legs) the amount of animations - and that is just unthinkable.

I can hear you start protesting already, coming with other solutions, but I assure you that we have considered eveything during the development of this game. Having the regular animations just slowed down would look weird and is not the way to go in a quality game such as GRAW PC.

Therefore, we have decided that you will not limp or even move slower when shot in either leg. Subsequently, there is no meaning in adding an indicator that shows where you have been shot - because being hit in different body parts does not make an impact on your movement or aiming, so you don't need to consider wounds when moving on - you simply have to be more careful.

You only take one or two hits (if you're not lucky and catch the bullets in your protective padding), which means that a limping guy would be dead in a second (it's the natural selection, you know) so the work on the wounded animations would not at all be in proportion to how little these animations would be seen in the game. It's just not worth it.

People might think that since we are making a game in 2006, that game should have all features of the game from 2001, and more - but some details we refine or add make other details too much of a hassle (or they turn out to be simply impossible) to implement, so you win some, you lose some.

If a certain feature makes is or breaks it for a player, and he/she decides not to give GRAW PC a chance because it's not in the game, then that's sad. We dare say that the sum of the features we do have makes for a great update of the unique GR gameplay.

Go GRIN!

[silent_op]

I can understand GRIN's reason for not wanting to add a new animation set. At the same time there are plenty of NPC related hit animations that should be used on the player. Getting hit and falling would be great. Having your stamina affected and thus causing more sway or needing to take more time to steady the gun in between shots would be good along with the falling down. The staminia feature really needs to work to start with, especially when you try to shoot after sprinting in full red kit weight limit.

There are plenty of existing options that GRIN can use without having to add new animations. Just don't listen to the "brillant UBI guy who said 4 player CO-OP is the move.

We need to keep it "real", the impression of "real".

silent_op

Edited May 26, 2006 by silent_op

[ruggbutt]

Getting hit and falling would be great.

IMHO that one would be perfect.

[Trident-za]

Getting hit and falling would be great.

IMHO that one would be perfect.

Definately, agreed. GRIN know about this - it was submitted to them in the "Top 10 to add" list. They have acknowledged the problem, lets see what they come up with.

[Buehgler_AS]

1) Getting hit and falling would be great.

2) The staminia feature really needs to work to start with, especially when you try to shoot after sprinting in full red kit weight limit.

3) Having your stamina affected and thus causing more sway or needing to take more time to steady the gun in between shots would be good along with the falling down.

I broke up and "prioritized" silent_op's suggestions. I really think these would be SUPER additions to the damage system.

If they were combine them with the old "thud" from GR to improve the immersive quality of being hit, then I think we would be nearing Utopia (short of a zillion more annimations) for a damage systems that does not have localized wounds.

[Damolee]

Other games have managed to get this balance right, so whats the big deal?

I'm suprised it wasn't even taken into consideration whilst the game was being developed.

Oh well, suppose it's just a case of waiting.

[Joseph_Q]

Sometimes when i played GR1 i thought i was dead when i was just wounded, the sound and visual effect was so strong and convincing. I also love that particular wounds cause different effects (limp, aim decrease, heavy breath). I miss that in GRAW, i hope GRIN plan to implemet that in future. Now i have a feeling that i have hidden health bar and i can take like 2 chest hits or 5 leg hits before im killed. In my opinion a single rifle bullet should drop soldier in 80% of cases, 100% if head shot.

[Jonny Mopped]

Getting hit and falling would be great.

IMHO that one would be perfect.

Yep, that would be perfect!

I could live without any permanent effect from beeing woundet IF you fall when you get hit! That would be an advantage for those shooting faster and aiming better over those running faster! (And not the other way round as it is now ..)

[calius]

Thats a great video to illustrate the point

I think if it can be looked at by GRIN it has a strong case to be sorted out in some way. Harping on about GR1 must be tedious but, GR1 hit effects worked, it made you panick, it made you jump ... it made you make sure you had yer ass covered!

The last example where the leg shooting is happening did make me chuckle with the other player having at look at his feet while they were being shot at, nice and casual ... hehe.

[maitredejeu]

agree with those requests

[KRP 56]

Good to see GRIN's looking into this as the GR effects made you feel the pain.

[Silentwolf]

this topic is a must read for GRIN, i fully support what GRIN have done already, but this is the ONE big complaint i have, even before dedicated server files.

this game is supposed to be a simulator, for intents and purposes, and is SO annoying that it takes upwards of around 8-10 bullets to kill a man, such a big disapointment for [GR] diehards like myself

GR old and new will always be my first game of choice, but this damage effect is such bad decision, everything else about the game is perfect IMO

[GIJoe*Shockwave]

This is why graw is more of a run and gun game because hit boxes dont work rigtht.A head shot is a head shot if it kills you or not your vision should get messed up or not beable to aim straight.

I dont care if we dont have gimp but something should happen to us when we get hit rets bloom, need some kind of sound effects that where r getting hit that radio static dont work well at all.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

this game is supposed to be a simulator, for intents and purposes, and is SO annoying that it takes upwards of around 8-10 bullets to kill a man, such a big disapointment for [GR] diehards like myself

I don't even care if it takes 8 to 10 bullets. What i do care about is he can hit me without knowing he is hit. 8 to 10 is fine as long as the bullets knock him around or off center his ret so he can't insta turn and blast me.

Granted as mythbusters have proved being shot will only move you about an inch or 2, but... it should reduce yor stamina, and such. Also to match the color of the health bar... that means it is hurting you some.

My thoughts are when running, you get hit at least knock the person down. Not unreleastically, just off set his balance and provide a hit sound from the direction it came from.

If standing still knock is ret a few inches from the direction he was hit from and bloom it. Show his body jerk from the hit so we know we hit him and provide him with a thud impact sound of some sort from the direction of the hit.

Head shots to none helmet wearing guys should be instant kill. to ones that wear it, weigh it out by caliber. You can even make this an equipment choice.

Another way you could do it is use the death animation every time your hit. (Note when you dies everything spins and you go to the ground). If future armor is that strong, you can get back up then if they don't put you down or keep shooting you.(this would cut down on the animations.)

Provide the one thought that was hit with a sound of a bullet sticking into your armor from the direction of the hit.

Just some more thoughts on this as i don't know what the engine is capable of nor the implications of.