Vth_F_Smith Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) One thing that seems to be the problem with the ghosts AI is, that as soon as they see an enemy they tend to shoot them - which isn't bad at all but simply doesn't work the way it should due to the lack of the awareness options from GR1 (assault, recon, hold fire, fire at will). However, I'm not sure if there's no way to change that for us modders. I recently stumbled over the ghosts AI XML file located in the Data\sb_templates folder and named sb_ghost_ai_data.xml. While I took a look at the file's data, I found a line which could have a nice effect on the AI.<var name="current_fire_style" type="number" default="1"/> <!-- 0 = offensive, 1=defensive, 2=suppressive -->Let's say we change the current_fire_style setting to "1" this could result in a much more defensive AI. At the moment I'm unable to test it myself, but maybe some of you could do that - I'd be interessted in the results of these modifications. If it turns out the way I expect it, the ghosts won't instantly shoot on sight but instead only return the fire if the enemy AI is shooting at them. Let's combine this with a lower setting (about 1 or 2) at the line <var name="con_wants_attack" type="number" default="3"/> <!-- go out and fire at enemie, how much do we want it 0-5 --> and also a lower one (also 1 or 2) at the line<var name="con_wants_out" type="number" default="3"/> <!-- keep your head out if fired upon, how much do we want it 0-5 --> just to see if it does what I think it'll do. If I'm correct then the ghosts will die a lot less then and therefor become even more effective, since their self preservation factor would be increased! What I expect is that after these modifications they'll first, look out for cover and won't shoot on sight (which would add a lot to the stealth factor). They'll also - in case they are under fire, keep their heads down and return the fire as soon as it's "safe" (this way they won't keep standing in the enemy's line of fire)! I'm curious if there's a way to add something to the ghost AI that would basically tell them: "If someone of our team is under fire and you're near him, get behind cover and suppress the attacker in order to give your comrade enough time, to leave the enemy's line of fire." As well as telling the AI under fire: "If you're under fire, try to find and get behind cover as fast as possible while one of your comrades is suppressing the enemy. Don't return the fire as long as you're not behind cover." Maybe GRIN's awesome AI programmers could have a look at that. I mean, one of the first lessons they teach you as a soldier (at least it's been one of the first I was taught and I don't think that's different in other countries military forces) is: First get behind cover then attack / return the fire. Being behind cover and care for your own, as well as your comrade's safety should have one of the highest priorities - the AI should react like that! Edited May 25, 2006 by Vth_F_Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehgler_AS Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 This all sounds reasonable, however the one thing that it seems will remain missing is the ability for the team leader to change the rules of engagement dynamically. My suspicion is that the Grin folks spent a fair bit of effort to tune these paramaters in order to get a the Ghost AIs to behave "well". Sure you can probably make them a bit more passive or aggressive to change the overall game play, but I suspect that short of a more complex change there will be no way to get the AI to hide in cover until you tell them to "suppress" at which point they would pop up and execute an ambush on the unsuspecting tangos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vth_F_Smith Posted May 25, 2006 Author Share Posted May 25, 2006 (edited) This all sounds reasonable, however the one thing that it seems will remain missing is the ability for the team leader to change the rules of engagement dynamically.That's the point! I mean, if GRIN should (for whatever reason) decide to keep the RoE out of the game, maybe we could balance it a bit more by making the AI more effective and self preserved! My suspicion is that the Grin folks spent a fair bit of effort to tune these paramaters in order to get a the Ghost AIs to behave "well".I think you're right about that, however what's still confusing me is: Sometimes one of the ghosts return something like "Yes Sir, going hot!" or "Aggressive - confirmed!" which sounds to me as if there were plans to integrate the RoE into the game but for some reason these plans were canceled (maybe someone of GRIN could confirm / deny that because I don't want to create false rumors). Sure you can probably make them a bit more passive or aggressive to change the overall game play, but I suspect that short of a more complex change there will be no way to get the AI to hide in cover until you tell them to "suppress" at which point they would pop up and execute an ambush on the unsuspecting tangos.You might be right on that, but if there's something I learned from past experiences then it's:"Never say never"! BTW: In case they really won't integrate the RoE system into the game with a future patch / add on or at least an expansion pack then maybe they could help us to create something like that on our own. The mod community is resourceful and capable enough (IMO Ubi keeps underestimating the mod factor of their games) to pull that off all by itself if necessary. I'm confident it would just need a bit of help from GRIN's AI programmer/s and two or maybe a few more of our powerful modders to re-create that in GRAW - if it should be necessary (Hint @ GRIN)! I mean just have a look at what the mod community accomplished so far with a bit of help by our fellow GRIN comrades and then imagine, what would be possible with just a bit more help from them. "The sky is the limit"! PS: Yes I know, I'm a damn optimist - but I can perfectly live with that! Edited May 25, 2006 by Vth_F_Smith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMiguel Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 wonder if ROEs will be able to be added via command menu like COVER/ATTACK/MOVE options are once tools are out...if not sooner Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehgler_AS Posted May 25, 2006 Share Posted May 25, 2006 Well, I'm optimistic that I can get some time with a colleague to work on the 4-player co-op thing this weekend. After we get that one nailed, my next goal is to eliminate the Mitchell is dead thing froma few missions. Being an optimist on occasion myself, I'll hope that we will learn enough in the process to figure out how to add ROE commands after that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimmRiffer Posted May 29, 2006 Share Posted May 29, 2006 wonder if ROEs will be able to be added via command menu like COVER/ATTACK/MOVE options are once tools are out...if not sooner The XBox version has an ability to modify ROE at will. Why the PC version does not is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrath Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 wonder if ROEs will be able to be added via command menu like COVER/ATTACK/MOVE options are once tools are out...if not sooner The XBox version has an ability to modify ROE at will. Why the PC version does not is beyond me. What i think would be cool for something like this is the command to put 1 or all ghosts on a "Stealth" command, wherein the ghost ai will not shoot when he sees an enemy but reports an enemy and takes cover till given the order to go "Hot" meaning open fire... this would alleviate all the unneccesary firing the ghost ai does. Would be cool to toggle this feature and shut the ai off when you feel "Cease fire" is warranted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vth_F_Smith Posted May 30, 2006 Author Share Posted May 30, 2006 The XBox version has an ability to modify ROE at will. Why the PC version does not is beyond me. Probably because GRIN tryed to establish an AI that would choose the ROE all by itself and they nearly managed to do that, but they obviously forgot that a Teamleader also has to issue ROE based orders if it seems appropriate (for example on recon missions) or maybe they simply didn't have the time to implement ROE's! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimmRiffer Posted May 30, 2006 Share Posted May 30, 2006 How do you change the settings? I unpacked the sb_templates node to the data folder, and have some notes on what I think some tweaks I did did. But if my unpakcing method was wrong then posting an essay on the results is a bit daft, cos the results would be imagined!! (But I'm sure I saw a difference...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr460 Posted July 7, 2006 Share Posted July 7, 2006 Maybe someone already saw this, but when I was looking through the XML's just now, I found this in the \Data\Strings\Tutorial.xml: <string id="Tut_Text_16" value="Use <>, <>, <> to change the aggression stance of your ghosts."/> The other things in the .xml are all the other directions Louie (sp?) gives you in mission 1. So, it means at some point it was meant to be. That doesn't mean they implemented it because there are things in the mission .xml files that aren't in the game either (like intercepting a convoy with Ontiveros in mission 1.) Maybe someone more familiar with the rest of the bundle could use this info, or if we get Nemon's editor, we might be able to track down the commands and bind them to a key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larocket83 Posted July 8, 2006 Share Posted July 8, 2006 good find. Hopefully this can be implemented eventually. It would be nice if this could be patched in, and not have to be modded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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