XRW_smatman Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Hi Guys, I was wondering how do you expert marksmen with M16's and M4's become...expert marksmen? I'm in the Air Force so I'm only required to qualify every 2 years. And I usually get about 20-25 out of 40 shots on target, usually I miss targets that are far away (smaller). I'm a pretty fair shot with my MAK-90, my old UZI, and HK USP 45 (got rid of the last 2), but with the M16 I dont do so well. I'm guessing the best way to improve my accuracy is by repetition, so I was planning on buying my own commercial M4 carbine (with picitanny rail system) sp? I tried following tips from several instructors but all their suggestions would require me to drastically change my shooting style. For example I am right handed so I shoot in the tradtional right handed manner, but I have a eye dominance dictates that the best way for me to shoot is by holding the rifle like I'm left handed (left cheek to butt, left hand on trigger, right hand on forearm). Now how many of you Army and Marine or other shooters have to say about the eye dominance thing? have you guys ever heard of anything like this? Also my next question, does anyone know if the standard issue military ball ammo (5.56x45mm) compatible with commercial .223 M4's and M16's? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZJJ Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 When I was in the Air Force, I shot "expert" in marksmanship. For me, repetition improved my shooting ability. That may be what you need to do, keep practicing shooting left handed and performance will improve. Wish I could be more help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 One thing to do is make sure you have the sling (the end that clips to the butt of the weapon) wrapped around your upper arm adn pulled tight to snug the weapon into yoru shoulder. Make sure that yoru arms are in triangles as they are the most stable way to hold your weapon( I have posted a pic in one of the GR2 threads about what they wanted and show s real well how to hold the weapon too.) Now as an ex-Marine I used to have to shoot with the gas mask on. Tho we were told turn the weapon sideways so we could aim. I was different. I laid my head over the stock of the weapon to shoot that way. One thing to remember, is you will need a deflector if you plan on shooting left handed elsewise you will have hot brass ejecting into your face. If you can't get a deflector, try righthanded and lay your head over like I described above so you can use your dominant eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
300Mag Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 Also shot expert several times. As metioned before, get your sling set to proper length and wrap it around your arm. Learn to breathe correctly and gently pull the trigger with the pad of your finger, not the knuckle part. Doing so with your knuckle tends to cause the sight picture to move slightly. Don't pull the trigger quickly, pull it gently. It's a process. Fire your weapon at the end of your exhale. You are most relaxed then. Make certain your cheek and shoulder contact the rifle at the same location and amount of pressure each time. Not so tight, just snug. With practice, you will be right up there. It's an easy weapon to shoot well with some practice. Good luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRW_smatman Posted March 30, 2003 Author Share Posted March 30, 2003 zjj, The only time I get to shoot the M16 is at qualification time, and we only get 40 rounds to practice with and the other 40 to qualify with. I think me buying my own M4 will help me to improve upon my accuracy. WhiteKnight77, When we do our quals in the AF they give us M16s which dont have slings. The main things I think affecting my aim and accuracy is my height (6' 2") and my vision. Not sure how it is in the Marines, but in the AF we fire ten shots from 3 stances: fully standing, over barricade and prone. For me over barricade is the hardest because the barricade that we use to rest our weapon on is low enough to require me to stoop over but high enough to where I cant take a knee. I've tried several stances but none of them work. The second hardest is standing, but I can stand and relax and concentrate on just keeping my rifle steady. Then there's prone, which is the easiest, but I have to put up with brass flying and hitting me in the glasses and going down the back of my neck (ouch, hot!) But the main thing that gets me is my poor vision, The glasses they issued me are literally as thick as coke bottles, but luckily they dont distort too much. I proably have to work on my breathing, controlling wobble and all that stuff. But one thing that you did point out is fighing in chem gear. As far as that goes they dont train us to do that in the AF, I guess that's cause we dont reallly go out and fight when we're getting gassed. I dont think us guys in the AF will hardly ever see combat, but it never hurts to brush up on my shooting skills. thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 OK for standing you can still use the triangles to help steady the rifle. Of course your left elbow will be pointing out from your body, but rest your right elbow on your side, your body will be the support. The barricade will be a pain from the sounds of things, but you can rest the weapon on it at least. Prone is the most stable way of shooting. Your elbow becomes the resting place on the ground and won't move all over the place. Just remember to use triangles. As 300Mag said, fire when you have completely exhaled and pull the trigger easy and steady. Check with the base armory and see if they have deflectors. If not they may be able to recommend a shop off base that carries them or can get them. It will keep the brass from going places you don't want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRC Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 smatman, my experience is in law enforcement, but I know shooting. You'll want to have your practice weapon have same barrell length as what you qualify with. For rifles/shotguns, making sure the butt is snug into your shoulder, feet planted firmly, one leg out in front of the other (but not in a direct line--slightly offset), knees slightly bent will give you a solid shooting platform. Letting out some breath slowly before shooting helps to deal with shot anticipation. Having so many rounds off target could be an indication of a couple of things. 1) your are anticipating your shot, thus you are jerking your finger rather than squeezing the trigger--this could be the cause if your throwing shots left or right of target. 2) if you are missing low, you're not allowing enough for the drop of the round at longer distances (not being familiar with m16's I can't help you with that part as where to aim on the target). An illustration of barrell length problems, when I became a police officer, I learned to shoot shotguns with an 18in barrell. I then took up pheasant hunting and had trouble picking up the bead sight fast enough on a 28in barrell. I dropped down to a 26in barrell and it made a huge difference for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parabellum Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Hi Guys, I was wondering how do you expert marksmen with M16's and M4's become...expert marksmen? I'm in the Air Force so I'm only required to qualify every 2 years. And I usually get about 20-25 out of 40 shots on target, usually I miss targets that are far away (smaller). I'm a pretty fair shot with my MAK-90, my old UZI, and HK USP 45 (got rid of the last 2), but with the M16 I dont do so well. I'm guessing the best way to improve my accuracy is by repetition, so I was planning on buying my own commercial M4 carbine (with picitanny rail system) sp? I tried following tips from several instructors but all their suggestions would require me to drastically change my shooting style. For example I am right handed so I shoot in the tradtional right handed manner, but I have a eye dominance dictates that the best way for me to shoot is by holding the rifle like I'm left handed (left cheek to butt, left hand on trigger, right hand on forearm). Now how many of you Army and Marine or other shooters have to say about the eye dominance thing? have you guys ever heard of anything like this? Also my next question, does anyone know if the standard issue military ball ammo (5.56x45mm) compatible with commercial .223 M4's and M16's? thanks Check with your local dealer, or contact the manufacturer. Some manufacturers' uppers are built to withstand the higher pressure of the 5.56mm round, and some are not. All of DPMS weapons, I believe, are suitable for using 5.56mm rounds. Also, most 5.56mm ammunition available on the civilian market is loaded to lower pressure standards than that of the 5.56mm round, so there's not as much to worry about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wx] Force Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 something that you must maintain is a sight picture ,keep your nose on the charging handle,for targets up close aim a little low and for farther away ,,keep steady and control your breathing,,squeeze ,, 39-40 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnumkp Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 Can't be of much guidance on using a carbine rifle, but I had a friend who owned a shotgun who couldn't hit a cows ###### with a banjo, but he always seemed to be missed to the left. It wasn't when he was drawing his gun up, the sights were fine, the stock fitted him well. Finally (after about £600 in consultacy at the gun shop) they realised his wax jacket was too tight (he hadn't been wearing it when he was getting umm consulted) and so as he went to fire the gun it pulled his arm to the left causing the problem. That was no help at all was it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[Wx] Force Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 (edited) ok ,,here's a quick tip ,, take a dime or a coin of some sort ,,place it on the barrel "balanced" near the end .. when in your position to fire squeeze the trigger and do not allow the coin to drop...if the coin drops your your unsteady ..or pulling rather than squeezing . for a small fee ,$ ,,hands on training could be arranged.lol Edited April 1, 2003 by -[NCM]-force Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.ronin Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 One thing to do is make sure you have the sling (the end that clips to the butt of the weapon) wrapped around your upper arm adn pulled tight to snug the weapon into yoru shoulder. Make sure that yoru arms are in triangles as they are the most stable way to hold your weapon( I have posted a pic in one of the GR2 threads about what they wanted and show s real well how to hold the weapon too.) dude it took 20 minutes to figure out that arm strap thing. works crazy good tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt.Dan Posted April 1, 2003 Share Posted April 1, 2003 I am also a right hander who shoots left handed. no eye dominance problems, it is just how I've always done it. I find that left handed shooters (in my experiance) tend to be more accurate because we tend to have right brain dominance. This enables us to think in three dimensions easier than left brain. My only tip would to be practice the length you extend your right arm on the stock. If it is too short or too far, the rifle bobbles easlily. But lucky me, i get issued a bipod! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 One thing to do is make sure you have the sling (the end that clips to the butt of the weapon) wrapped around your upper arm adn pulled tight to snug the weapon into yoru shoulder. Make sure that yoru arms are in triangles as they are the most stable way to hold your weapon( I have posted a pic in one of the GR2 threads about what they wanted and show s real well how to hold the weapon too.) dude it took 20 minutes to figure out that arm strap thing. works crazy good tho. Hey, the Marines know how to shoot. After all every Marine is a rifleman even the damned cooks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the.ronin Posted April 2, 2003 Share Posted April 2, 2003 might be a bit late in editing the above post but it should say "it took *ME* 20 minutes..." (just in case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadKarma Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 I'm not a proponent of the arm strap thing, at least not in the way I deploy my AR-15... Whenever I deploy, I am in a CQB environment, so I want to be able to transition as quickly as possible and the 3-point sling doesn't lend itself well to that technique anyway... There are ways to overcome weak-eye dominance...Your range staff should be able to deal with that...If not, I'll ask a couple of my range guys and give you some pointers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea Posted April 4, 2003 Share Posted April 4, 2003 Where for art thow Carlos? USMC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymoar Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 keep steady and control your breathing,,squeeze ,,on the wiggle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noraf Posted April 5, 2003 Share Posted April 5, 2003 actualy, a thing you could try, for the barricade, is to sitt on your knees, cross your ancels (sp?), witch gives you a higher point to sit on ( though, i do not know how high the baricades that are used over there is ) i'm not sure if i understood your problem with the baricade correctly though... another possition to try, is with your feets crossed ( a yoga lookalike possition ), witch again gives a stable, and high seating position, though, it probably would feel unconfortable the first times you try it ( and, getting it wrong, could mean that you get unstable...) gl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.