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Thanks Desmond for the reply and info, glad you were brave enough to step forward first. When starting this thread i wasn't sure if I'd get any replies from the people at GRIN........especially after Chilly_Willy's input! ha. :P

As you said, I dont want this thread to be hijacked by people and turned into "can i have this or can i have that in the next patch". We all know that a patch is being worked on at this very moment, so people be patient and wait.

So thanks again Des for the response and opinion on the forums feeback to Graw.

Any other GRIN team want to step forward and express their feelings ????

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the only problem is that now it seems the developers are paying attention to the whiny people in forums and changing it accordingly. So the people who love the games as they are, have to deal with that game being changed into something they possibly don't like anymore. Which I think is worse than initially not liking a game.

Well, the DEVS do have some work to do, no question - primarily on the MP front. But, as you say, too much complaining can lead to changing of features that should be left alone. I see complaints about not being able to shoot while running, for example. If the DEVs change that, I'll transform from a "fanboi" to a "whiner" very fast. If democracy ruled, this would turn into another CS or BF2 very fast indeed. DEVs need to deal with legitimate complaints, while holding on to their original idea - tough job.

I have to agree with this one too... And that you GRiN_desmond22, for responding to this... :g_withgrin:

Edited by Stormin
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(...)

Any other GRIN team want to step forward and express their feelings ????

Mr Phil, is that you? :hehe:

About that complaining here and there on forums, well thats something that will always be and probably comes with the job. Thankfully, there are also (probably as much or even more) people who like the game as it and do the right thing by posting constructively and respectfully.

Go GRIN and patch GRAW as you guys have it meant to be!

g_2gun_t.gif

And offcourse Desmond, thanx for your reply! It can't be said enough how fortunate we are here @ GR.NET, that the developers show this much interrest and involvement with the community!

g_2gun_t.gif

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I too would like to thank Desmond / GRIN for sticking with us and providing some insight into how game developers see things. It appears that they are just people like you and me and should be treated accordingly.

Most of the grown up people in here did what we would do in real life and provided our constructive feedback (good and/or bad) in the pinned SP/MP/COOP feedback threads.

This was compiled and sent to GRIN.

I hope and believe that this is the best way to interact with game developers. This way they can ignore all the other whining and concentrate on the constructive feedback.

I for one :g_withgrin:

As long as there is dialogue, there is always hope!

Keep bitching/moaning/whining and you will eventually (which almost happened here) kill the dialogue and hence the hope.

;) Mike

Edited by MadMike
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I hope and believe that this is the best way to interact with game developers. This way they can ignore all the other whining and concentrate on the constructive feedback.

I for one :g_withgrin:

As long as there is dialogue, there is always hope!

Keep bitching/moaning/whining and you will eventually (which almost happened here) kill the dialogue and hence the hope.

;) Mike

I think Devs. normarlly interact with only a select few, "The chosen Ones" for game Beta testing & Feedback.... So It's kind of new to see the devs. on the FRONT LINE.

I too think it's great......

I too would like to thank Desmond / GRIN

p.s. I think it could be Mr. 22 :notworthy:

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I'm confused about one thing though . . . GRIN were touted as practically already having a graphics engine pretty much built and also that they are really fast at developing games with turn around times much shorter than the average dev house. Then on release we are told that they didnt have enough time?

I realise that they had about 18 months which is way short these days. Then, how long did RSE have for the Xbox 360 or the PS2 devs? Does it mean UBI decided to produce GRAW PC at the last moment?

We began working on GRAW in mid January 2005 - that's 14 months, in other words insane. Also, we started out with little more than 20 employees, and doubled that number during the development GRAW - and we're still just 1/5 the size of the 360 dev team. In other words, we're a hard workin' bunch of fanatics. Less is more - quality before quantity - all that thinking goes into not only our game design, but into the entire company soul and its employees as well.

Some people seem to think that because it's been five years since the last Ghost Recon for PC, the next installment (GRAW, that is) has therefore been worked on for five years. That is of course not the case.

Mad props goes out to the 360 team who did a hell of a job too, considering they were developing a game for a new platform.

As you said, I dont want this thread to be hijacked by people and turned into "can i have this or can i have that in the next patch". We all know that a patch is being worked on at this very moment, so people be patient and wait.

I wasn't complaining about people who tell us what they want in the game - that's what y'all should do. I was complaining about people who just tell us what we did is not what they want - people who seem to feel a very strong urge to remind us all the time that the game isn't perfect, and don't provide constructive feedback but only express their endless disappointment: "This is not a worthy successor", "this is not GR", etc.

What is GR - what made the game so great - is everybody's individual opinion, and a thing that is very hard to put your finger on. Some people can't stand that we skipped the "sould switching" thing, others think the soul of GR was in the setting, or the equipment, and because we don't have the same scenery or weapons that were GR1, then this isn't a worthy successor.

Anyway, we know you're a bunch that's hard to please. Thanks for the support, all you "fanbois". :grin1: To those who say "this isn't what we waited for" - I can only say: Well continue waiting a little longer, we're still working on it. And we're a bunch of hard workin' fanatics, I tell ya.

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Thx Des for sticking in the forum and for letting us know that you guys still continue work on GRAW, i find this awsome and good news.

As far as the gr1 goes, people should stop comparing it, pc's evelloped in 5years and GRAW is in my opinion a more than potential succesfull successor for it.

-M-

Edited by mordred
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What are you doing on these forums Desmond22 ??? Get back to work and finish our patch!!!! :lol:

Hey it's Saturday. I'm not that fanatic. ;)

I have an apartment to renovate. You know, like, things I care about outside work. Like... a life. :P

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I have an apartment to renovate. You know, like, a life.

If u thought that games only get delayed...........wait for the renovation of that appartment !!! lol, it might be only hardware there, but it can be a real pain in the *** if its old

-M-

Edited by mordred
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lol

Give me your wife's adress ill send her flowers to compensate ;)

-M-

If graw goes platinum you can ORDER people around to renovate that building, u might even buy the whole condo :thumbsup:

Edited by mordred
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Thanks for the responses, Desmond.

I'm with the OP in that I'm extremely curious about GRIN's take on the post-release reaction; I'd like to think there's a parallel universe at www.GRiN.net/forums, where moderators have to step in and say, "Now, GRin_******, stop making unconstructive posts about GR fans, and for the last time, stop bypassing the swear filter." Then again, maybe tequila provided an adequate buffer to the wall of white noise that came out of here, post-release.

A bit off-topic, but I just received an X-Fi as a gift and swapped out my Sound Blaster 24-bit a few nights ago. Bravo, Desmond! Now that I can actually hear all the sounds, and without static, and on "extreme" quality with EAX on, I'm thoroughly blown away. Nice work.

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There were several things we still wanted to put in the game when we released it - but there was simply no time at the time. We'd be living in a dreamworld if we though the game was perfect - but we're dead set on going in the direction in which we've started out.

Im so glad to hear that you dont regret the direction you went. I think Grin is the best thing tac sim fans had in a long while, because you had the balls to put out a game with some challenging, non linear gameplay.

As for the feedback itself, it's very very useful. Of course, some things you ask for is just outrageous, and sometimes it seems you're not looking for a patch - you're looking for an expansion pack or a completely new game here - but most of the feedback is very healthy info for us to hear. We're taking all realistic requests into consideration, and although it is - as you say - impossible to please everyone, we believe the game will be all we wanted it to be after the patching. Some, who have just chosen to... "be that way", will continue to whine even after that. :rolleyes: ...but most will be pleased. That is my firm belief. :thumbsup:

Im realistic, I think the best thing you should focus on is the modding tools for the fans. More options and abilities we have to keep this title going and the intrest going, the better. There are a few things that I hope can be finished such as :

The leader dieing in coop, shaky cam in cross com needs to be toggable, tweaked or somthing, and of course optimization of everything possible really. It'd be nice if you could also even incorperate an officcial HARSH insane dificulty for the game (one shot = 50ish-50% chance of death).

Anyway, I'll be honest, no amount of patches is going to make this game perfect, but I am SOOOOO happy with what you've done, and I hope you will produce the expansion or next title(thats where the real hopes lay). I really thhink if you continue to work on your engine and continue the direction you took, you'll be one of the leading FPS dev teams around. :D One of the key ingrediant this game lacked is layered attention to detail IMO, some of the more obvious, unfortunatly core engine issues, where never resolved. Get past the graphics, you did amazing job there, and look at what OG GR1 had and what this game didnt, and just fill in the blanks.

Edited by smokin
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Desmond you're right, feedback = Good. Whinging = boring thread after thread!

Maybe Grin should lay the facts down as to what is possible to be patched and what is not, that may help some of us here who arent game developers be put in the right direction and stop asking the stupid questions like can i get AA working in the game or will there be a patch for it!

Maybe be a list of the things GRIN hope to include or fix in the next patch release might help.

Anyway thanks for the time given.....especially as its Saturday.

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Oh one more thing Desmond, Hats off to you for the sound in the game. any chance you can patch in a gratifying blood gurgling sound for the gunner on VIP2 at the end of the road?????? if he shoots me or my team one more time i swear...

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Grin should know how often other games get bashed. And not like the soft kind of stuff around here.

You guys should be proud of what you've done already and especially for the fact that you guys actually make contact with the scene. I have never really seen this before. Here it feels like we are being listened to and that's just good.

The patch will defenately make a whole lot of people unhappy. Even if the patch makes the game better. You will ALWAYS have people who think differently.

But if you see how other company's release their patches... Its hard to do it worse :)

Just let us see how you guys have meant the game to be along with the mainstream wishes of the community. I have been waiting a long while for a game like this to be released you wont loose me on a few things I dont like. Lists would have been lots and lots longer if we told you guys what we did like :D

I have played other games and I can say that the GR scene is one of the more mature scenes. But you'll always have the rotten apples.

Im just very happy with the game and I'm sure I will be even more happy when the patch is released

:g_withgrin:

Edited by Obeleh
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Anyway, I'll be honest, no amount of patches is going to make this game perfect, but I am SOOOOO happy with what you've done, and I hope you will produce the expansion or next title(thats where the real hopes lay). I really thhink if you continue to work on your engine and continue the direction you took, you'll be one of the leading FPS dev teams around. :D One of the key ingrediant this game lacked is layered attention to detail IMO, some of the more obvious, unfortunatly core engine issues, where never resolved. Get past the graphics, you did amazing job there, and look at what OG GR1 had and what this game didnt, and just fill in the blanks.

I can't workout if your FOR or AGAINST the GRAW PLATFORM, you quote how they did a good job but then tell them there engine is floored & take a look at GR1 so you can get GRAW right ?? I'm I reading this wrong....?

GRAW will never be GR1 it's been stated over 10+ times and GRIN acknowledge that. I'm happy with the fact that: The LADS are working on all the reported bugs for resolution & if there’s time prior to patch release date then will also inc. some modifications as per everyone's requests.....which is more than fair. THIS AIN"T SANTA'S SACK !!! an endless pit of ADDON & MODS. GET REAL !!!!!

:rant:

Desmond you're right, feedback = Good. Whinging = boring thread after thread!

Maybe Grin should lay the facts down as to what is possible to be patched and what is not, that may help some of us here who arent game developers be put in the right direction and stop asking the stupid questions like can i get AA working in the game or will there be a patch for it!

Maybe be a list of the things GRIN hope to include or fix in the next patch release might help.

Anyway thanks for the time given.....especially as its Saturday.

PONDLIFE.. [cool name]

They already did !!!! read the threads bud .. in the pinned zone

WHAT IS POSSIBLE IS: ALL BUGS that’s problems that are not suppose to be there in the game play as written by the developer.....

WHAT IS POSSIBLE 2: Some add ons BUT probably will not be listed till PATCH Release, due to the fact THINGS CHANGE ON A DAILY BASIS in software world. If they listed A,B & C and only gave you A & B 99% would RANT ON about how it's still no good because 'C' is missing !!!.

And mate your right , ASKING STUPID QUESTIONS: for example the AA issues has been posted over 20 times and every time it's mentioned, some poor sod has to tell the LAZY GIT the problem was this and is that.... [AA IS NOTHING TO DO WITH GRIN , GOTO ATI & NVIDIA].....and before you jockeys get on my back....... GRIN DID DEVELOPE GRAW as a HDR GAME !!! and it's fact that no hardware at the time of this POST [that you can afford] can do HDR & AA on you average Joe PC, you want it GOTO PIXAR.....

not at you PONDLIFE

So go and DO SOME READING !!!! and stop asking the same question over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and you get the idea ...

:rant: OVER :tumbleweed:

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Cheers Viiper, i didnt know there was a post with the things that were being worked on as a patch..... :wall: must go look! ha.

Personally i cant wait for a patch if it improves things, true i havent completed SP game yet, so theres no way i'm going to embarress myself online playing so i dont have the "MP mode sucks" attitude, but I'm sure it's a valid point for some! yes there are things i would like to see improved, hence the question on what is and whats not possible to patch.

To me the gameplay is solid, i don't have a fancy setup although if this game just gets better and better i may well end up saving the dosh to enjoy it even more in all it's glory.

Well done the GRiN lads.

Time to try VIP2 again... .. . :rofl:

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Oh one more thing Desmond, Hats off to you for the sound in the game. any chance you can patch in a gratifying blood gurgling sound for the gunner on VIP2 at the end of the road?????? if he shoots me or my team one more time i swear...

READ THE THREAD

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...topic=34813&hl=

and if you didn't know it's in

Ghost Recon.net Forums > Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter > GR:AW - Modding > GR:AW - General Mod Topics.

Because it would be classed as a MOD .... to have loadsA blOOd :charge:

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We began working on GRAW in mid January 2005 - that's 14 months, in other words insane. Also, we started out with little more than 20 employees, and doubled that number during the development GRAW - and we're still just 1/5 the size of the 360 dev team. In other words, we're a hard workin' bunch of fanatics. Less is more - quality before quantity - all that thinking goes into not only our game design, but into the entire company soul and its employees as well.

Thats pretty much what i thought the situation was.

14 months is a very short timespan to develop a game.Hats off to you all for achieving what you've done in that short timespan :grin1: .

I for one am confident most the issues people are having will be dealt with in due course and am looking forward to the upgrade/patch in June.

I'm a web developer/php programmer and i work with a guy who used to work in the game industry, he was a Lead Designer at Psygnosis and has worked for numerous other games companies in the past.

The 2 of us are the only developers in our company of 6 and have been working on a Wap site building tool/CMS and Wap delivery engine for the last 2 years (wapple.net).

So i can understand what is like to be on the otherside ;)

Keep up the good work guys :grin1:

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Anyway, we know you're a bunch that's hard to please. Thanks for the support, all you "fanbois". :grin1: To those who say "this isn't what we waited for" - I can only say: Well continue waiting a little longer, we're still working on it. And we're a bunch of hard workin' fanatics, I tell ya.

Does that mean there's a slight chance that the traditional SP GR gametypes (Firefight,Defend etc.) could be patched into the retail game so we could enjoy playing on both the campaign and MP maps whenever we took a notion. :please:
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I can't workout if your FOR or AGAINST the GRAW PLATFORM, you quote how they did a good job but then tell them there engine is floored & take a look at GR1 so you can get GRAW right ?? I'm I reading this wrong....?

Its not about being for or against anything. I simpply realize the time restraints and the position Grin was placed, Grin took lemons and made some pretty damn good lemonaid. Its really not too hard to understand though :lol: .

For me, best chance I have to see my perfect game to play, is if GRIN wakes a standalone expansion or the next GR, yeah sure patch what you can, but if there is plans for the expannsion, I hope they start thier efforts first on improving/maturing the engine they have now. (i.e direct ip connect, # of coop players, doors, peeking while prone). Continue the directiono but improve the engine quite a bit. Its a pov viper, you dont really need to like it, understand it or police it, , but eh whatever floats your boat. :blink:

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