Attitudes

[viiiper]

The Team are determined to correct issues in this game, and to improve what is already a decent game.

GP

Colin

It's true Colin , It is a decent game / It's got a lot of potential and we will get the product we dreamed about.

As I mentioned above ... It has a strange new type of GAMEPLAY that most of us didn't want, but it has: great graphics and good colours, camo actually works in this game .... The guns sound right

[and we hope alot of the OLD FAVORITES WILL COME BACK]. There are too many good points to talk about but the poor/ bad points just spoil the final result....

We just expected the basic structure of GR1 to be carried over with THE FIRST FINAL RELEASE, and to all purposes, it's a bit HIT & MISS. That’s what is so annoying !!!Most of us thought that would be a given [fundamental]!!!

I bought the pre-order copy and I'm a great fan of GR, all the way with

GR1 to THE NONE EXISTING GR2 and now THE RETURN OF THE PRODICAL SON GR3

I THINK A LOT OF THIS CONSTRUCTIVE CRITIZIM AND ANNOYANCE came from the

failure of GR2 to materialise on the PC PLATFORM and now we want our CAKE !!

with SPRINKLES and ALL THE TRIMMINGS

[Judge_Oblivion]

This is an important moment in PC gaming IMHO.

They DID NOT port this game like they did COD2.

GRIN has done an outstanding job consitering the time they had to work on it.

Is it dissapointing to have some flaws from GR1 show up now (as in hindsight) Frankly yes...but this game isn't finished.

To me this is a BETA. Sure I had to pay for it...but it is an AWESOME BETA. I feel comfortable (more so since teh quick patch) that they will follow through and we'll get a more rounded game in June.

It is frustrating to see the potential of this game unrealized right now...but that is my own impatience. There are a few advantages we have in that they can make some changes they might not have thought of due to players feedback...had they waited to release a more finalized product.

COD2 reverted back to flaws from before they patched COD1 and they WILL NEVER FIX THEM. That game was polished but done when it shipped.

This game is sweet. Will rock in the future. I played GR1 for 3 years and hated it the first 6 months....really didn't "get it" until Desert Siege.

Have faith.

[REC0N]

What I BASACLY would have wanted in a new Ghost Recon, is Ghost Recon whit a new graphic engine, first person weapon view and even further expanded realism.

I'm think that's pretty much what I got I got first person weapon view, a new engine and expanded realism. The setting is far more urban than GR1, but I can live with that.

Once the MP side of things is fixed up, and mod tools are available this game will be even better.

Hmm no it doenst feel or look like Ghost Recon, it has that console feeling over it.

As for the "expanded realism", I only have to say three things.. no injury effect (no gimp or worser aim), no "oneshot, one kill" (you can take three hits! even one in the face whit out dying) and no blood at all (only a little splash when a bullet hit a body).

Have you played GRAW on the 360 and PC? I have. PC's version of GRAW and the word "console" do not belong in the same sentence. What makes it feel like you're on a console?

No I haven't tried it on the sandbox.

But here are some of the thinks that I think makes it console like..

Maps and missions are linear.

There is always some kind of invisible space between you and a wall or any other object. (Can't descibe it any better, feels very strange).

Tangos can't hit a damn thing, I did the "bullet boogie" for 30 seconds whitout getting hit.

Target markers. (ok you can turn it of, but its there).

health bar.

......

Edited May 13, 2006 by REC0N

[insane snyper]

But here are some of the thinks that I think makes it console like..

Maps and missions are linear.

There is always some kind of invisible space between you and a wall or any other object. (Can't descibe it any better, feels very strange).

Tangos can't hit a damn thing, I did the "bullet boogie" for 30 seconds whitout getting hit.

Target markers. (ok you can turn it of, but its there).

health bar.

Disagree on most points:

1. Maps and missions are linnear, but that fits the storyline. It doesnt make much sense to blow up the fuel truck before you secure presidents limo. Plus, I fully expect any linnearity problems to be fixed in mods.

2. Invisible space.... First of all I dont really know what you are talking about, but if you mean your inability to press your face into the wall, maybe you ought to try strapping on all the crap the ghosts are wearing, holding a loaded weapon, then pressing your face into a wall while still standing perfectly upright. Sorry, theres no real reason to give the ghosts the ability to lean forward. Definetly way better than GR1 where your body didnt seem to actually take up space.

3. Tangos cant hit a damn thing: Try turning up the difficulty . With it on medium I can usually "do the bullet boogie" for maybe 5 seconds before I am DEAD, on hard your dead within less than 3 once they open up.

4. Target Markers= Definetly a cool feature to play with. If you dont like them turn them off. I'm not sure how that could be a problem.....?

5. Health Bar: Not exactly realistic, but this game is somewhat firefight oriented. Not sure if you've noticed, but in RL a few thousand rounds are expended for every kill. GR1 it was like 5. This game bumps it up closer to a realistic level and makes the game much more immersive at the expense of having to have a health bar. I kind of like it, and frankly, looking at how much crap the ghosts are wearing (they look like theyre wearing one of those bear proof suits) I wouldnt expect 1 shot to the chest to kill them. Maybe the face though, I'll give you that one

[Lawman]

We as the GR community need to be critical to let GRIN know what we dont like, weve done that, some people have gone overboard with it however.

Having them already release a patch to address some things shows me they care.

Lets all let GRIN do their job, without flaming. Constructive criticism works best

Lets be honest here - even if we shout and scream for what we want and give nothing but constructive cirictism, nothing in the game play will change. It's coded and will remain that way.

Many here are saying that it's not a direct port from a console - but it certainly plays like one.

I suspect that GRIN do care - but not enough to produce a wonderful tactical shooter that has great non-linear gameplay with realistic effects. That would fall into the too hard categroy and UBI would not allow a game to be too far removed from the other console versions.

In the end GR1 was perhaps a one off - it was a fantastic game with stunning gameplay and wonderful and well thought out maps, mission and most of all modability. GRIN have missed out here and I don't hold out much hope for many (positive) changes.

Rich

[Stormin]

Well said..... I couldn't agree with you more....

[viiiper]

In the end GR1 was perhaps a one off - it was a fantastic game with stunning gameplay and wonderful and well thought out maps, mission and most of all modability. GRIN have missed out here and I don't hold out much hope for many (positive) changes.

Rich

I don't think so 'Lawman', I feel There is a solid base platform here to go far into

the future with GR3, GR1 may have been a one off ...but GR3 has the possibility to make it 2.

When GRIN release the LMS Team v Team /mod tools and additional maps

then we will see a big change.. It's true this BIG BIG map is all urban and lacks

GR1 feel but it is dam DETAILED AND HAS VARIATION.... There must be some dam good

members in that GRIN TEAM !!!

I think they know there's alot to do... It may have gone GOLD [pre release] but it has the

possibility to go Platinum on sales...

[Papa6]

We as the GR community need to be critical to let GRIN know what we dont like, weve done that, some people have gone overboard with it however.

Having them already release a patch to address some things shows me they care.

Lets all let GRIN do their job, without flaming. Constructive criticism works best

Lets be honest here - even if we shout and scream for what we want and give nothing but constructive cirictism, nothing in the game play will change. It's coded and will remain that way.

Many here are saying that it's not a direct port from a console - but it certainly plays like one.

I suspect that GRIN do care - but not enough to produce a wonderful tactical shooter that has great non-linear gameplay with realistic effects. That would fall into the too hard categroy and UBI would not allow a game to be too far removed from the other console versions.

Added: I hear that GRAW doesn't have enough weapons. special forces don't have 1,000's of weapons to choose from. GRAW seems to prove this by it's selections.

In the end GR1 was perhaps a one off - it was a fantastic game with stunning gameplay and wonderful and well thought out maps, mission and most of all modability. GRIN have missed out here and I don't hold out much hope for many (positive) changes.

Rich

Lawman, how is this a port? there were three companies developing the game for their respective platforms, while the game looks and feels different, what would it take to make the game a true GR sequel?

one things for sure mate, in GR i could unload an entire mag into someone and not so much as flinch. GRAW the muzzle raises from recoil. GR had absolutely NO effects. nor was there any physics. I could hide behind a wood crate in GR all day while it took 1,000 oicw nades and I could still get away. GRAW, I'd get wasted.

I think GRAW will ween(sp?) out the crowd to those who like it. either you dolike it or you don't.

Edited May 13, 2006 by Papa6

[viiiper]

Lawman, how is this a port? there were three companies developing the game for their respective platforms, while the game looks and feels different, what would it take to make the game a true GR sequel?

Totally agree Papa6, This is NO PORT and thanks to all who decided not to publish a simple port..

Edited May 13, 2006 by viiiper

[Trident-za]

There have been numerous posts in recent times claiming either that GRAW is a port, or console-like. I understand neither comment. This is not an attempt to flame or cause massive arguments... but could someone please educate me as to what makes a game (specifically GRAW) "console-like" as opposed to "non-console like"? I've never played a console game in my life, so I don't get it.

[viiiper]

There have been numerous posts in recent times claiming either that GRAW is a port, or console-like. I understand neither comment. This is not an attempt to flame or cause massive arguments... but could someone please educate me as to what makes a game (specifically GRAW) "console-like" as opposed to "non-console like"? I've never played a console game in my life, so I don't get it.

I think most that claim GRAW is a port may be referring to the GAMEPLAY which once played comes across as a RUN & GUN type game...which most CONSOLE based war games are..

Where the original GR set the STD we all love as a game of Tactical skill & kill with a blend of stealth & teamwork....

over all I understand there frustration , cos I have a bit too.... after all the PRE RELEASE comments make of what we would most likely get... It's NOT QUITE THERE YET .. and 5 years on from the original and only release [less expansion packs] we've probably grown impatient for the ULTIMATE TACTICAL SHOOTER !!

Edited May 13, 2006 by viiiper

[=ASE= Mull]

ROCOAFZ I could'nt have said it better! I wanted to throw my computer out the window afew times with GR1 !!!! Also, before GR1 i played RS , and wasnt to found of GR1 in all of its glory when it was released!! Bugs!!! somehow that word didnt size up to the problems GR1 gave the community!! In closing: is the game perfect? no! but what game is that is pushing the edge? I believe some people wanted the same GR but "looks better" it was never promoted that way!!! Either you like it or dont!! but damm people, stop with, "it doesnt look the same as GR1" Go play something else....

[Lightspeed]

I think there are valid points from ROCOAFZ and I do feel sorry for GRIN because they spent a lot of time on this game, and they may have released it for us early unfinished on purpose. So the fact they are copping a lot of flak at the moment, I feel sorry for them. I admit Ive given more then my fair share but I have tried to be constructive about it.

At the end of the day though, I think 99% of the current issues can be fixed and I think the potential of this game and engine, and where the game is currently is far too good to let it go to waste.

I encourage GRIN to push on because although I feel that the game is not where I want it at the moment, its also not too far from being perfect for me.

I think the flak they received was prolly warranted, but I think the, in general, constructive posting about issues will give GRIN the insight they need to bring this game up to excellence.

[REC0N]

I think its only cool for those old fans of the [Ghost Recon] game who like or have learned to love GRAW, I only wish I had bin so lucky.

Its plain simple not my cup of tea.

I don't see much hope for the fans of realistic and tactical shooters anymore. (sorry I mean ULTRA realistic and tactical shooters, since GRAW is called that).

[insane snyper]

It seems like a lot of people here really get it, but theres enough people who are still going to scream and moan regardless of what happens that I give up. Maybe I'll check back in a few months and see if the moaners have either given up, or finally seen reality.

[REC0N]

It seems like a lot of people here really get it, but theres enough people who are still going to scream and moan regardless of what happens that I give up. Maybe I'll check back in a few months and see if the moaners have either given up, or finally seen reality.

that was my "give up" speech.

[viiiper]

It seems like a lot of people here really get it, but theres enough people who are still going to scream and moan regardless of what happens that I give up. Maybe I'll check back in a few months and see if the moaners have either given up, or finally seen reality.

that was my "give up" speech.

Never say die ... LOL

It would be nice if, as I posted in a thread to ADMINS .. [colin inc.] , This FORUM WOULD

POST A PINNED THREAD that gave us all an update on say a weekly basis on what was

actually happening at GRIN HQ, regarding update/bug fixes &

the likes. That way we would all be in the know ???

May be it's too much to ask but we would feel more understanding, knowing GRIN was on the

TRAIL of sorting out X, Y & Z Don't get me wrong, I know GRIN are doing X,Y & Z

but to actually know what was really coming......Hmmm

I mean it sounds like a radical concept [DEVELOPERS DOING COMMUNITY RELATION UPDATE BULLETONS with a FORUM on a WEEKLY/ FORTNIGHTLY basis] but it would be GREAT.

We are all here for one reason ?? we love GR group hug NOW

Edited May 14, 2006 by viiiper

[Retlaw]

I disagree with you, this is not what we wanted. I would rather wait 3-4 more months and get the complete game, than getting the game we got . I wait 5 years for graw, a few more months would not kill me. GR was the best game ever in my mind. I never finish the single player game, not in GR, DS or IT. I just play a few missions to get use to the game. MP was were all the fun was. Most of the guys here, that had play the game as long as I play the game, were MP players, team vs team LMS. When GR came out, I could not wait to get home from work to get glue to the PC to play LMS. Graw, do not have this control over me. Our team, [30+] is as discorauge as many teams here, we wanted LMS, Team vs Team so we could compete vs other teams again and have the same fun doin it all over again. Maybe in the future this game will be what GR was and I hope and pray that it will become that , fun and adictive, but for now, in my book GRAW is a failure that can be fix, let hope they fixed. For now, my $50 bucks are sitting next to my PC, barely used

Edited May 14, 2006 by Retlaw

[NOX]

This is a flame nor a rant. Just an observation. When xbox got GR2, what did the community do? We DEMANDED GR released finished or not...

Now roll to present day... xbox version of GRAW was finished and the community spoke again... give us GRAW PC we don't care if it's finished or not. This time GRIN delivered. We got what we wanted. A playable, but not finished game. And now what are we doing? Complaining becaues we got what we wanted. Enjoy it, and help them make a better game out of it people. They are patching it, but you have to understand... it wasn't completed and they released it so we would have SOMETHING at least.

You complain and rant about your 50$. Well your 50$ is actually doing something. Supporting the development of a game. That is far better then buying something that is finished and will be shelved in a month because of no patching or no input. You can tell by the 1st patch that guess what? THEY ARE LISTENING to what needs fixed.

I am an MP player but you know what? I can understand why it wasn't finished 1st. It requires the MOST testing, to balance gameplay, experience, and netcode. They threw us a gametype to see how it would act in a real environment. With all of us testing it i would imagine in the next patch or 2 we are going to have a GREAT game.

You all forget how buggy GR1 was in demo and launch. Let me refresh you.

1) Servers crashed when over 12 people playing MP on the demo and 1st patch. GRAW is doing 25+ with no lag. Also did not work very good in NT based netcode/resources (2000/XP)over windows 98

2) in GR1 if you shot a sensor or claymore the game crashed. This was patched later.

3) m136 was an instant reload, back then i was the rocket man LOL

4) As a sniper you could switch to pistol and back and auto center your ret

Now for what never got patched in GR1

5) Edge glitching... GRAW made sure this wasn't possible

6) Tiptoeing impossible to do without being able to be hit in GRAW

7) Left Peeking. Impossible in GRAW due to view being centered. In GR1 it was over the left eye so when you peeked left less of you was visible and right = more of you sticking out.

8) Weapons would stick through corners and walls. GRIN again made sure this couldn't happen. weapon goes up till you move back

9) GR1 had an outrageous server requirement of 16mb card. (THAT WAS EXTREMELY HIGH BACK THEN) And never had dedicated servers (modders made reconlog and others)

Don't get me wrong GR1 was a great game, but only after numerous patches and fixes. How about we give GRAW that same chance? If 3 to 4 patches down the road it ain't a great game then complain until then... we have exactly what GR1 was, and what we wanted... an unfinished still developing by community input, but still playable game.

OK I agree, with the bugs in GR1 I was one of the original players, but UBI and GRIN knew in advance or maybe they did not (this is the management issue) tha MP was the first and most important playing type for the game. They instead gave us this GRAWP, it sucks and is a POS you cannot play nor match with it. They have had myriads of dollars and weeks to get it right but instead focused on Co-op...I know you frustration and anticipation but enough is enough..they have taken your and my money with only a promise. The money that built the franchise our money, yours and mine for a promise?

Why did they not get even close-I could have accepted a close, but they are so far from an acceptable game it is pathetic and almost crimminal. Crimminal in that they knew our expectations, they knew the history, they knew the technology, and yet they sold us this POS for MP. I wanted to give them the at the realease of the demo the benefit of the doubt, but they lived up to all of the predictions of failure, and failed they have big time.

[Warmaster]

I agree with both sides on this topic. Well said Roco. However, unfortunately, the developers did not think of some very important things before the release of the game.

I am frustrated after having bought a brand new computer with somewhat higher end specs, and I might, might get 20 fps with everything on low. CSS, I can run everything on high and still get 90-100 fps and no mouse lag. The mouse lag is killing me with graw. It seems unless I am picking people off from longer distances, I shoot everything but my target in those cqb firefights. But hey, it is cool to watch the pots shatter when stray bullets hit them instead of the intended target.

Server side options are not present. This is a big oversight and I truly hope they fix this in the june patch. I mean, what MP game has ever been released that does not give you the host, the option to kick/ban? Why do I have to restart the server when I want to choose a map, or change the server options period? Oh wait, since there are only 5 maps to choose from, they come around real quick. Options are what makes the game the type of game people want to come back to time and time again. Lots of options and a bunch of maps. Granted the maps are big and present a lot of option, but I would rather have had 15 smaller maps and the choice to pick from a variety.

Despite what it sounds like above, I do like this game. I just hope and pray that the June patch/add-on will resolve a lot of MP related issues and concerns. I can be patient and bide my time playing CSS or BF2, because honestly, I am tired of being owned in a game where I know it is not my fault that I am not coming out on top. I have been around since the day GR1 was released, and my clan was a top clan on clanladder, so I know it isn't just me.

[UberSoldier]

You are right but who knows if after the june patch they pull a EA move and stop supporting the game. EA did it to the PC Nascar SimRacing fans.

And why should I believe a company that said they were going to start working on the next GR title for the PC soon after they canceled GR2 and that was a few years ago.

[Bonehead]

You are right but who knows if after the june patch they pull a EA move and stop supporting the game. EA did it to the PC Nascar SimRacing fans.

And why should I believe a company that said they were going to start working on the next GR title for the PC soon after they canceled GR2 and that was a few years ago.

EA pulled support for BF2? Quite the contrary, they are much more supportive and communicate allot more with the community base than they were before these days.

GRIN seems to be on the ball, and I doubt they are going to drop it any time soon.

Just my two centavos.

[IrishStout]

GRAW is GRAW and GRAW is what it is.. if you truely feel like you have been ripped off..

well it probably is not the first time and I can honestly tell you it won't be the last time in life... anyone pay to see the movie Stealth?

Many people like GRAW, see it's potential, enjoy the SP and MP that is currently availalbe and look forward to what GRIN has to offer.. I also see and read lot of modders just waiting to sink their teeth in and make it even better ...

All I say is GET OVER IT.. move on then. Thanks for sharing your opinions.. but those who actualy enjoy the game get tired of the same people bitching over and over again.. we GET IT.. we are not dumb.. you don't like the game.. OKAY .. thanks for sharing

Now can those of us who like the game share our thoughts in a constructive manner..

A lot of peeps use this icon against GRIN:

I use it towards those that keep coming back to only bash the game over and over again, post after post.

The game is only just over 1 week old..

Irish Stout ..

P.S. sorry to those that enjoy the game... but I had to rant...

Edited May 14, 2006 by IrishStout

[ROCO*AFZ*]

You are right but who knows if after the june patch they pull a EA move and stop supporting the game. EA did it to the PC Nascar SimRacing fans.

And why should I believe a company that said they were going to start working on the next GR title for the PC soon after they canceled GR2 and that was a few years ago.

This is not EA so there is nothing to compare. LMS as stated is on it's way. So is dedicated servers with kick and option bans. Did any of you look at the xmls? There is tons of easy development coming our way. I set our server to 15 spawns with the xml in about 10 seconds. Also changed the message of the day. I'm not happy with some of the bugs but there is a very good side to it. Instead of them handing us what we didn't want, it gave us time to comment and for them to implement the most important features, which it looked like they did not have time to do.

The domination mode i think stems to this. Our team played on TCZ (the combat zone). There was a big push toward the end of GR to make a game type like this for matching. Also what is the best way to suck over BF2 players who left GR1? a similar gametype. I imagine marketing was the cause of this. More people are playing domination in BF2 then lms in any other current game on a huge scale of 32 + players on big maps. I also think this was to test us. See if it's really what we want and to do the above. same with the server set up. Very basic.. anyone can up it. It works with ingame browser easily.

Also most games are sold for the SP aspect, not the mp. this also is marketing. Not everyone plays on the internet. I am betting they figured hey, they will play the sp campaigns and get used to the system which will weed out MP problems that we can patch by the time they are ready for the multiplayer. And also there is MP for those who wish to try it early or those who like BF2 style play. Plus they can see our netcode which supports many players for team vs team.

What i am saying basically is the game is still in development. We got it early because we wanted it and ubi wanted to sell it. Now it's up to us to tell them what we like (don't see much of those posts that should be here) and what we do not like specifically.. not the the game blows i hate it and such crap we have been spewing. tell them in a meaningful sentence that makes sense clearly without ranting over and over. I will give an example of something i think would impove it that our member Peace has stated in another thread.

I think there should be a punishment for hits like knocking you around. Similar to physics. I don't like it when i hit someon on single shot and before i can shoot again they have spun not even affected by the hit and drop me with full auto. This leads to a less tactical game and more of a run and gun.

Note i explained my thoughts clearly and without flame. i also sited and example of what has happened to me in game. I didn't bash the game, but i did point out what i think may improve it.

I would rather put out 50$ for an unfinished but playable game that i may assist in making better then a set in stone game that WILL not change.

Edited May 14, 2006 by ROCOAFZ

[Cuchillo*]

OK Roco I undesrtand ur point of view , "they deliver" by orders of "WHO"?? the unfinished game "very unprofessional ok , but ok let's carry on , so its a unfinished game"product , COOL , how much 50 bucks ?,ok I give you 15 bukcs for this crap , and when u finish fixing it I give the rest , right ?? LAMO cmon . open ur eyes , this its another UBI *&^% , but now they have Grin to wash their hands , so .......... I guess u are new in this matters , but ok enjoy the game and all happy

till 2007

Ibet on Haze

OK here it's HAZE , guees u guys are sooo absorve by this crap game graw u didnt realize wut goin on OUTSIDE here, there u go .

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34746

Cheers