This Game is a Joke

[babydave]

I come from a camp where if works don't break it and the GRIN engine works...It might be your system is struggling with the demands of the GRAW platform ..like many others and even my own until I upgraded... But that is called progress my friend.....[sounding a bit matrix here lol], I think this is the most demanding PC game I've ever installed... cos I admit even I am pushing my PC @ 1920x1200 all ON.

i think you come from the camp of a minority of people that will overhaul their PC for one game and have a high end rig. the majority dont have a setup like yours and thus its nowhere near as impressive, so for people like me (and theres a lot) HL2 looks and performs much better.

im sure GRAW looks great on your pc even without AA but most of us will never own a system like to see it ourselves. id be interested to see some screenshots

[Papa6]

Like I said before, I'm playing GRAW on a Compaq PC. It isn't what brand of PC you own, rather what you put inside the PC, beefy ram, CPU with goodsized L2 Cache and Good Graphiccard.

A compaq people, not a rocket science PC of all PC'sa I know, but if you know what to put into your PC, you'll get the performance you want

Edited May 16, 2006 by Papa6

[viiiper]

I come from a camp where if works don't break it and the GRIN engine works...It might be your system is struggling with the demands of the GRAW platform ..like many others and even my own until I upgraded... But that is called progress my friend.....[sounding a bit matrix here lol], I think this is the most demanding PC game I've ever installed... cos I admit even I am pushing my PC @ 1920x1200 all ON.

i think you come from the camp of a minority of people that will overhaul their PC for one game and have a high end rig. the majority dont have a setup like yours and thus its nowhere near as impressive, so for people like me (and theres a lot) HL2 looks and performs much better.

im sure GRAW looks great on your pc even without AA but most of us will never own a system like to see it ourselves. id be interested to see some screenshots

Like I said before, I'm playing GRAW on a Compaq PC. It isn't what brand of PC you own, rather what you put inside the PC, beefy ram, CPU with goodsized L2 Cache and Good Graphiccard.

A compaq people, not a rocket science PC of all PC'sa I know, but if you know what to put into your PC, you'll get the performance you want

Firstly BabyDave. I think if you started your own thread and asked people you'd find I come from a camp of the majority !!! Who care about this hobby called PC HARDWARE

And if you read my previous posts you'd read that I didn't have a rig like I had for over 2 years till I decided I had SAVED ENOUGH and WAITED LONG ENOUGH TO UP THE ANIT.....

Now to the Good bit............. You don’t have to run at 1920x1200 to get a good screen image, I do because my screen is NATIVE 1920x1200 and any other resolution has to have one of 2 things !!!!! either BLACK BAR DOWN EACH SIDE OR INTO STRECH MODE to :: one run the ASPECT correctly [1280x1024 will have BARS] or two STRECH MODE [to fill the screen] thus expanding each pixel and ending up with the jaggiest picture you ever did see...

Papa 6 is right: It's nothing to do with which PC you have [mines a self build] but what you put inside it and for less that $1000 [£600 UK] I recon you could upgrade NOT just FOR GRAW but to be ready for most of the following years games......

BabyDave : your pictures my son, @ 1920x1200

http://www.chatback.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/g...12-49-53-76.jpg

http://www.chatback.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/g...12-53-03-34.jpg

Edited May 16, 2006 by viiiper

[tangovictor]

Viiper... what a diehard defender of all that is GRAW. All your rhetoric about how it looks and runs great (in what little modes it has available)... is such BS for the masses out there who bought this game based not only on title name expecting the same gameplay as the [GR], but that it would actually be playable and FUN on a rig with the recommended hardware requirements.

20 FPS with these requirements is not fun nor playable by today's standards. If you want to zip back 10 years, 20 fps would be quite excellent. The bar has shifted - we expect optimized engines and better code, not simply cramming polygons into the code and expecting the consumer to 'catch up' with time through overbuying technology to make the software work. That is insane. Look at how much has always been accomplished on consoles once developers know the hardware and write optimized code for a certain set of specifications - amazing the results. Problem is pc development teams simply run the 80/20 and would rather let that last 20% of effort and optimization slide by because it can be eventually made-up for letting the consumer shell out $$ to increase their computational horsepower through better equipment.

I liken this to buying 'futures' much like a software stockmarket - and I currently own stock in GRAW. I can't do anything much with it now, but hopefully someday when my natural pace of upgrading my pc happens to cross into the operational range of GRAW, then I will be able to enjoy it. Problem with this method of game development, who wants to play a game that is 2 years old when the newest games out using a better development process have better features, graphics and are more fun out of the box?

early adopters of technology pay a huge premium for it, but those people are 3 to 4 standard deviations out from the norm. Consumer products that are successful (software included) do not market to the exclusive elite on these curves, but rather to the core inside 1 or 2 deviations where over 67% of the market sits. This game is for the elite 3%, and until you and others understand this - your argument is simply not valid to the rest of us.

This is like listening to a billionaire talk about how gas prices really aren't that bad and only amount to less than .5% of his expenses and we should just really appreciate that gas costs less per gallon than orange juice. W.T.F.... over.

I've been sold a bill of goods. With alot of patience and costly upgrades, I can eventually have fun with this game - but those upgrades are not needed for another 12-18 months for anything else I am using or buying. I custom built this rig 18 months ago and it was a screamer then, now it is still pretty darn good - but this game makes it feel like it's 4 years old. That just isn't good development or execution of a consumer product. A game shouldn't be a prestige product that becomes a status symbol. Apparently somebody forgot this along the way.

[ChimpUKLF]

I had to replace my gfx card for this game and added some more RAM, but I needed a new gfx card anyway - I had a non-ultra FX5900 so have been struggling with everything for a while. HL2 looked OK on the 5900 but BF2 looked bonk. PC gaming is and always has been an expensive hobby, and I don't think its unreasonable for a bleeding edge game to be unable to work on a 3 and a half year old graphics card, even though it might be annoying to be forced into the purchase to play the game.

Personally I don't understand what all the wailing and crying is about AA, I've never been able to use it on my 5900 so for me GRAW looks beautiful, the HDR is magnificent. Comparing it to BF2 on my mates high-end rig, GRAW still looks fantastic, even though he runs BF2 and 8x AA.

[babydave]

Firstly BabyDave. I think if you started your own thread and asked people you'd find I come from a camp of the majority !!! Who care about this hobby called PC HARDWARE

And if you read my previous posts you'd read that I didn't have a rig like I had for over 2 years till I decided I had SAVED ENOUGH and WAITED LONG ENOUGH TO UP THE ANIT.....

you are wrong. firstly:

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

this data is only one month old.

secondly:

i have 3 friends that own a PC for gaming, 2 have dells and one have a custom built. 2 have 6600's and one has a 6800. none of them have 2 GB RAM. One has 512 and 2 have 1GB. 1 of them has GR3 the other 2 didnt buy it because of the system requirements and negative feedback.

thirdly:

The people that post on GR forums are the minority, and within that those that are PC hardware enthusiasts are even smaller.

im not denying the fact our systems arent new, i know theyre not, but they arent ancient either and when your system can run all other games (new an old) fine then you have to start asking questions.

lastly GRAW doesnt look that impressive to warrant the high system requirements, thats what bugs me the most.

and i agree with tango victor

Edited May 16, 2006 by babydave

[Judge_Recluse]

Viiper... what a diehard defender of all that is GRAW. All your rhetoric about how it looks and runs great (in what little modes it has available)... is such BS for the masses out there who bought this game based not only on title name expecting the same gameplay as the [GR], but that it would actually be playable and FUN on a rig with the recommended hardware requirements.

20 FPS with these requirements is not fun nor playable by today's standards. If you want to zip back 10 years, 20 fps would be quite excellent. The bar has shifted - we expect optimized engines and better code, not simply cramming polygons into the code and expecting the consumer to 'catch up' with time through overbuying technology to make the software work. That is insane. Look at how much has always been accomplished on consoles once developers know the hardware and write optimized code for a certain set of specifications - amazing the results. Problem is pc development teams simply run the 80/20 and would rather let that last 20% of effort and optimization slide by because it can be eventually made-up for letting the consumer shell out $$ to increase their computational horsepower through better equipment.

I liken this to buying 'futures' much like a software stockmarket - and I currently own stock in GRAW. I can't do anything much with it now, but hopefully someday when my natural pace of upgrading my pc happens to cross into the operational range of GRAW, then I will be able to enjoy it. Problem with this method of game development, who wants to play a game that is 2 years old when the newest games out using a better development process have better features, graphics and are more fun out of the box?

early adopters of technology pay a huge premium for it, but those people are 3 to 4 standard deviations out from the norm. Consumer products that are successful (software included) do not market to the exclusive elite on these curves, but rather to the core inside 1 or 2 deviations where over 67% of the market sits. This game is for the elite 3%, and until you and others understand this - your argument is simply not valid to the rest of us.

This is like listening to a billionaire talk about how gas prices really aren't that bad and only amount to less than .5% of his expenses and we should just really appreciate that gas costs less per gallon than orange juice. W.T.F.... over.

I've been sold a bill of goods. With alot of patience and costly upgrades, I can eventually have fun with this game - but those upgrades are not needed for another 12-18 months for anything else I am using or buying. I custom built this rig 18 months ago and it was a screamer then, now it is still pretty darn good - but this game makes it feel like it's 4 years old. That just isn't good development or execution of a consumer product. A game shouldn't be a prestige product that becomes a status symbol. Apparently somebody forgot this along the way.

On one had I agree with everything you said, on the other hand I dont really see GRAW doing this. My system is really horrible, the only shiny spot on my sytem is the graphics card and thats even starting to dull by today standards.

My Specs.

P4 2.0 Ghz

BFG 6800GT with X-treme G 84.56 drivers

756 MB RAM - One stick is PC 2700, the other is PC 2100 both sticks are PNY cheap stuff

WD 80 Gig Hard Drive

Asus Motherboard (forgive me forgot the model number) but its old.

Audigy gamer soundcard

I play GRAW at 1024x768 at 25-35 Frames per second in SP and 35 - 45 in MP. No thats not great but with those system specs I wont complain. Every setting is on medium and high and hardly have any slow down while playing ( only when a big explosion happens and the first 10 seconds of a game SP or MP).

After trolling the forums, I have noticed that I am having the same problems as the people with high end rigs. The only thing they have over me as far as gameplay goes is FPS. This game is taxing on a system no doubt, but it is playable on lower end systems. What the game needs is optimizing, and when and if that happens you will see more people with less problems, even with the lower ens rigs.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying people should shut up because my system runs it just fine so yours should to. There are obvious problems out there that need addressing for almost everyone that plays. But I am saying that this game can function and be played on lower end systems good enough to enjoy it.

I think if given some time GRIN can get this game fine tuned enough to where there will be less problems out there for the whole spectrum of systems we run.

[viiiper]

QUOTE(tangovictor @ May 16 2006, 08:25 AM)

Viiper... what a diehard defender of all that is GRAW. All your rhetoric about how it looks and runs great (in what little modes it has available)... is such BS for the masses out there who bought this game based not only on title name expecting the same gameplay as the [GR], but that it would actually be playable and FUN on a rig with the recommended hardware requirements.

20 FPS with these requirements is not fun nor playable by today's standards. If you want to zip back 10 years, 20 fps would be quite excellent. The bar has shifted - we expect optimized engines and better code, not simply cramming polygons into the code and expecting the consumer to 'catch up' with time through overbuying technology to make the software work. That is insane. Look at how much has always been accomplished on consoles once developers know the hardware and write optimized code for a certain set of specifications - amazing the results. Problem is pc development teams simply run the 80/20 and would rather let that last 20% of effort and optimization slide by because it can be eventually made-up for letting the consumer shell out $$ to increase their computational horsepower through better equipment.

I liken this to buying 'futures' much like a software stockmarket - and I currently own stock in GRAW. I can't do anything much with it now, but hopefully someday when my natural pace of upgrading my pc happens to cross into the operational range of GRAW, then I will be able to enjoy it. Problem with this method of game development, who wants to play a game that is 2 years old when the newest games out using a better development process have better features, graphics and are more fun out of the box?

early adopters of technology pay a huge premium for it, but those people are 3 to 4 standard deviations out from the norm. Consumer products that are successful (software included) do not market to the exclusive elite on these curves, but rather to the core inside 1 or 2 deviations where over 67% of the market sits. This game is for the elite 3%, and until you and others understand this - your argument is simply not valid to the rest of us.

This is like listening to a billionaire talk about how gas prices really aren't that bad and only amount to less than .5% of his expenses and we should just really appreciate that gas costs less per gallon than orange juice. W.T.F.... over.

I've been sold a bill of goods. With alot of patience and costly upgrades, I can eventually have fun with this game - but those upgrades are not needed for another 12-18 months for anything else I am using or buying. I custom built this rig 18 months ago and it was a screamer then, now it is still pretty darn good - but this game makes it feel like it's 4 years old. That just isn't good development or execution of a consumer product. A game shouldn't be a prestige product that becomes a status symbol. Apparently somebody forgot this along the way.

BabyDave

you are wrong. firstly:

http://www.steampowered.com/status/survey.html

this data is only one month old.

secondly:

i have 3 friends that own a PC for gaming, 2 have dells and one have a custom built. 2 have 6600's and one has a 6800. none of them have 2 GB RAM. One has 512 and 2 have 1GB. 1 of them has GR3 the other 2 didnt buy it because of the system requirements and negative feedback.

thirdly:

The people that post on GR forums are the minority, and within that those that are PC hardware enthusiasts are even smaller.

im not denying the fact our systems arent new, i know theyre not, but they arent ancient either and when your system can run all other games (new an old) fine then you have to start asking questions.

lastly GRAW doesnt look that impressive to warrant the high system requirements, thats what bugs me the most.

and i agree with tango victor

Tango Victor & Baby Dave

Before I read all 200 paragraphs of your post...[ I read most and am going back to it]

let me say ..... PC developers do care .....NO you say....Well look-eey here, Consoles are a fix hardware resource that never ever change, so the poor little console developer has a fix hardware config to write he's code for ....POOR PC DEVELOPER had probably 200,000+ PC hardware combinations to keep happy ...that’s why people like you are upset !!!....because your hardware struggles even on medium setting... PC developer tries to make his Game code compatible with all 200,000+ variations of PC but alas he must fail a few... [probably 500,000 users easy]....but users whom wanna play and realize there hardware is at it's limit will upgrade, others will buy an Xbox, because they don't see the worth of PC Upgrading. That's your choice ...

I'm not an avid supporter of GRIN if GRAW was crap I'd say it, but it's not..... bug bug bugs yes it has but someone somewhere north near Santa land is working on them for you and me !!!!

PC HARDWARE Survey you linked too was regarding what general users had .... It didn't state that they didn't care or they did care....THAT WAS MY POINT , I CARE ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING, you may too but at this moment in time you may not be able to upgrade your hardware.... well reality check , PC GAMES ARE GETTING MORE DEMANDING... before GRAW I had problems with HL2 then Rome total war.. the list is endless, ONE PC WILL NOT LAST A LIFE TIME....you wanna long life machine ..buy an XBOX !!! Whoops that's gone too !!! lol NOW XBOX 360 .. and you know what MS are on with the 360 replacement !!!! how long till that is here and game console 25 is in the cupboard....

and that's the camp I'm in , the one that cares... The one that does not have a Xbox360 & GRAW.......THE ONE THAT MISSED OUT ON GR2 because someone thought PC OWNERS not a viable market.... The one that has A PC that didn't run it too well and spent a bit of money and up graded not only for GRAW but in general for any PC APPLICATION. I bet most of the Forum cares !!! too and to show it post Q&A which all GR FANS Benefit for whether they are part of the forum or searching Google and find the answer on this forum through that....

You know if GRAW DOES NOT LOOK THAT IMPRESSIVE TO WARRENT A SYSTEM

UPGRADE ....then I guess you won't be playing it on a PC ??? Try a XB360...

Also TangoVictor I built my PC 24 mts [26mts] ago and it was a rocket with a ATI9800XT

...pretty high spec 2 yrs ago...but it struggled with GRAW... but you know time goes on.... and as we go into the future, it's going to get faster and faster [upgrade & have done with it]....

and your going to have to do it again in 2 years ..... but by then XBOX 360 will be replaced too.

Edited May 16, 2006 by viiiper

[tangovictor]

Tango Victor & Baby Dave

Before I read all 200 paragraphs of your post...[ I read most and am going back to it]

let me say ..... PC developers do care .....NO you say....Well look-eey here, Consoles are a fix hardware resource that never ever change, so the poor little console developer has a fix hardware config to write he's code for ....POOR PC DEVELOPER had probably 200,000+ PC hardware combinations to keep happy ...that’s why people like you are upset !!!....because your hardware struggles even on medium setting... PC developer tries to make his Game code compatible with all 200,000+ variations of PC but alas he must fail a few... [probably 500,000 users easy]....but users whom wanna play and realize there hardware is at it's limit will upgrade, others will buy an Xbox, because they don't see the worth of PC Upgrading. That's your choice ...

I'm not an avid supporter of GRIN if GRAW was crap I'd say it, but it's not..... bug bug bugs yes it has but someone somewhere north near Santa land is working on them for you and me !!!!

PC HARDWARE Survey you linked too was regarding what general users had .... It didn't state that they didn't care or they did care....THAT WAS MY POINT , I CARE ENOUGH TO DO SOMETHING, you may too but at this moment in time you may not be able to upgrade your hardware.... well reality check , PC GAMES ARE GETTING MORE DEMANDING... before GRAW I had problems with HL2 then Rome total war.. the list is endless, ONE PC WILL NOT LAST A LIFE TIME....you wanna long life machine ..buy an XBOX !!! Whoops that's gone too !!! lol NOW XBOX 360 .. and you know what MS are on with the 360 replacement !!!! how long till that is here and game console 25 is in the cupboard....

and that's the camp I'm in , the one that cares... The one that does not have a Xbox360 & GRAW.......THE ONE THAT MISSED OUT ON GR2 because someone thought PC OWNERS not a viable market.... The one that has A PC that didn't run it too well and spent a bit of money and up graded not only for GRAW but in general for any PC APPLICATION. I bet most of the Forum cares !!! too and to show it post Q&A which all GR FANS Benefit for whether they are part of the forum or searching Google and find the answer on this forum through that....

You know if GRAW DOES NOT LOOK THAT IMPRESSIVE TO WARRENT A SYSTEM

UPGRADE ....then I guess you won't be playing it on a PC ??? Try a XB360...

Also TangoVictor I built my PC 24 mts [26mts] ago and it was a rocket with a ATI9800XT

...pretty high spec 2 yrs ago...but it struggled with GRAW... but you know time goes on.... and as we go into the future, it's going to get faster and faster [upgrade & have done with it]....

and your going to have to do it again in 2 years ..... but by then XBOX 360 will be replaced too.

Well sir, I have an xbox 360, and I have GRAW on both PC and 360 and guess what - 360 kicks the pc's ass thus far. I didn't want it to, and actually told everyone PC would pwn the 360 as this is a FPS that naturally always is better on pc than console...

If you know anything about software development, you would know they NEVER optimize or fully utilize the current technology... they PUSH the need for technology through their inefficient use of software. Some devs write more efficiently than others, and some engines use technology better than others. This game does neither... and hence sucks.

Technology upgrades should not be the band-aids of poor development. I am unimpressed and frankly feel let down that a dev team that promised so much through their participation in [GR] community discussions would put out a product this lacking in the technology realm. Compare and justify all you want to how 'advanced' GRAW is to other games or vs. consoles, but in the end the 'fun' factor is not there for the majority, and when push comes to shove, games over a year old look and play better than this... that's not progression, that's regression.

short enough to understand without re-reading?

[Papa6]

Since Studio "a" developed Xbox GRAW and Studio "b" the PC version, there are huge differences. I believe Red Storm created the Console Xbox360, while GRIN used a 6th Gen diesel game engine that the Deffered lighting lays all over a PC in terms of speed.

What I think will happen is, the haters will leave and play whatever elsewhere and that those of us who like/love GRAW will endure and enjoy the future of GRAW.

this could be inevitable.

[TedSmith]

Since Studio "a" developed Xbox GRAW and Studio "b" the PC version, there are huge differences. I believe Red Storm created the Console Xbox360, while GRIN used a 6th Gen diesel game engine that the Deffered lighting lays all over a PC in terms of speed.

Actually it's more like Studia "A" and "B" developed Xbox 360 GRAW and Studio "C" developed the PC version.

Both UBI Paris and Red Storm had full teams working on GRAW 360, the former for the single player and the latter the multiplayer. Plus if I heard right, both studios actually had more time on the project than GRIN did on the PC version.

[viiiper]

Well sir, I have an xbox 360, and I have GRAW on both PC and 360 and guess what - 360 kicks the pc's ass thus far. I didn't want it to, and actually told everyone PC would pwn the 360 as this is a FPS that naturally always is better on pc than console...

If you know anything about software development, you would know they NEVER optimize or fully utilize the current technology... they PUSH the need for technology through their inefficient use of software. Some devs write more efficiently than others, and some engines use technology better than others. This game does neither... and hence sucks.

Technology upgrades should not be the band-aids of poor development. I am unimpressed and frankly feel let down that a dev team that promised so much through their participation in [GR] community discussions would put out a product this lacking in the technology realm. Compare and justify all you want to how 'advanced' GRAW is to other games or vs. consoles, but in the end the 'fun' factor is not there for the majority, and when push comes to shove, games over a year old look and play better than this... that's not progression, that's regression.

short enough to understand without re-reading?

Since Studio "a" developed Xbox GRAW and Studio "b" the PC version, there are huge differences. I believe Red Storm created the Console Xbox360, while GRIN used a 6th Gen diesel game engine that the Deffered lighting lays all over a PC in terms of speed.

Actually it's more like Studia "A" and "B" developed Xbox 360 GRAW and Studio "C" developed the PC version.

Both UBI Paris and Red Storm had full teams working on GRAW 360, the former for the single player and the latter the multiplayer. Plus if I heard right, both studios actually had more time on the project than GRIN did on the PC version.

TangoVictor,

You see what I'm saying, because I know what your saying and I will mention that is a minute.

Your XBOX360 is hardware tech of current day....TRUE , however you admit your PC is hardware of a few months

[1-2 yrs] and that's my point to you, your hardware life cycle for modern games [ of which GRAW is probably the first of many, HL2 etc.. ] that is pushing the envelope of hardware technology and in doing so is upsetting alot of supporters by also giving them some cutting edge game play and graphics...... lets not argue ...you tell me the xb360 graphics are TOP DOG and I'm telling you , with the right hardware... The effect is comparable/ same [see my link]

http://www.ageia.com/physx_in_action/footage.html

I promise It looks all of xb360 fireworks, lights and polish....

Ted...

I think A & B did develop GRAW but C got in on sharing [what is called] RESOURCES with A & B so some things are common to GRAW with xb360 and some things are not [because 99% of PC owners don't have the hardware] like the PPU support, but GRIN still put it in for us 1% and in 5 yrs when 60% have a PPU [just like 20 yrs ago no one had a floating point unit 'FPU' and NOW EVERY PC HAS IT BUILT INTO THE CPU]. They'll all be happy for it...

[WytchDokta]

Bah! Looks like it's time for me to create another one of my (t)error boxes again and post it here in this thread.... What says you eh viiiper?

Edited May 17, 2006 by WytchDokta

[viiiper]

Bah! Looks like it's time for me to create another one of my (t)error boxes again and post it here in this thread.... What says you eh viiiper?

Nothing Less .. Doc !!!

[WytchDokta]

Bah! Looks like it's time for me to create another one of my (t)error boxes again and post it here in this thread.... What says you eh viiiper?

Nothing Less .. Doc !!!

OK, I'm on it!

[WytchDokta]

[viiiper]

Very good.... my favourite bit is

Resistance Is Not Futile

and the suttle ref to the dark lord

[WytchDokta]

Very good.... my favourite bit is

Resistance Is Not Futile

Hopefully the whingers are starting to get the message.

and the suttle ref to the dark lord

That, of course, being me. hehe.

Edited May 17, 2006 by WytchDokta

[Lead Salad]

Is it me, or does anyone else not undestand that the word "whining" is not spelled like "whinging"?

What is whinging?

[WytchDokta]

Whinge (verb) - colloquial Complain peevishly.

So whinge = whine and whine = whinge. What, am I a dictionary consultancy service aswell now?

We tend to use it in the UK more than "whine"

Edited May 17, 2006 by WytchDokta

[calius]

Is it me, or does anyone else not undestand that the word "whining" is not spelled like "whinging"?

What is whinging?

Dont start that debate ... speak to Colin about it he had me floored when I used the term "winging" .... I missed the "H" which added to the complete confusion!

[WytchDokta]

[WhiteKnight77]

I think it is time to let this thread die, lest I have to lock it. I don't want to lock it.

[Lead Salad]

Whinge (verb) - colloquial Complain peevishly.

So whinge = whine and whine = whinge. What, am I a dictionary consultancy service aswell now?

We tend to use it in the UK more than "whine"

Oh, Ok bro. Sorry for the bad assumption, for some reason I thought it was a misspell that just took on epic proportions. I know our friends from across the pond have different usages and spellings for similiar words, that just escaped me.

On another note, I have enjoyed playing the Graw Demo in a different way, just in terms of practicing movement and shooting, seems to be more fun that way in terms of watching the AI and how it reacts, etc. I have been impressed with how different the sound of the enemy weapons are in relation to distance-that is a first in a shooter, and it is pretty impressive, kind of reminds me of the movie HEAT during the bank robber scene-good stuff.

[Sup]

So, a Rabbi, a Catholic priest, and half a dozen ducks walk into a bar. The Bartender stops them and says:

'What is this, a joke?'