Am I a poor player or a poor player?

[SAF_Biffa]

Been playing this game a lot since it first came out so very few players out there have played more than I have and my machine is a 3gz processor 1.5 Ram and an ATI Radeon 9600 AGP.

(I'm running everything on low and at minimum.)

Not the greatest spec but not bad, also my machine is well maintained, I work from home. Hence the machine condition and my ability to play a lot.

So I'm wondering why I am so bad at this game, my average multi (Domination) score is terrible, I can only get a decent score by running around a lot and capturing bases but I tend to end up with a kill ratio of something like 1 kill to every 8 deaths, I'm getting owned.

So I'm either a really poor player because I suck or I'm a poor player because I can't afford to buy a top of the range monster machine, which is it?

I've also encouraged a lot of my friends (some not fps players) to buy the game and they are having a tough time too with slightly lower spec machines, I feel like giving them their money back because I feel so guilty that I raved about the game.

Also when you check out the scores on most servers I've been on there's like two people with 15+ kills and everyone else around 3 or 4 for a straightforward Domination game.

Are these the guys with the expensive machines or are they just naturally good at the game?

Anybody else notice this?

So far I've only won two (I've lost hundreds) close combat fights with an enemy (human) player, it's like trying to shoot from a boat in a storm when the action gets up close. If you camp (er take up a defensive position) there's always someone that runs round the corner that you've been staring at and kills you before you've even noticed they were there.

Anyway, if it is a game for rich kids then I'm out and so are most of my clan since we simply can't afford to match the spec that these more 'talented' or 'richer' players are running.

We basically need the game to be made more efficient as far as processor lag, this is a greedy game that is way off the scale for most gamers it's also a potential marketing nightmare since the spec on the box even the recommended spec is pure fiction if you want to play any sort of competitive no coop online game.

[aCid]

ati 6800?

edit:

well tis not a rich kid game, i work(ed) 20 hours a week at mcdonalds paying car insurance and gas, and saved up enough money over 6 months to get the machine u see listed in my sig.

my freind has a 6600 LE and plays fine with 20 frames

Edited May 12, 2006 by aCid

[SAF_Biffa]

Sorry ATI Radeon 9600 AGP, I'll correct that!

A lot of my guild members are single parents, unemployed, low paid, disabled and students, it's an issue for me and the people I enjoy playing with.

For a lot of people playing games it's the only entertainment they can reasonably afford, as well as a social outlet.

It's about priorities I guess but these guys (and girls) were among the most loyal followers of the series and played it non-stop, their machines aren't bad but they aren't the top of the range.

It's just sad that they are now to be excluded from the community.

I can understand that a developer want's to produce a great looking game with an eye on encouraging people to upgrade their systems (third party deals etc) but this is too far out of many people's reach.

When the original GR came out we had the same issue but now the gap is huge and more than likely unbridgable. 5 years ago the difference's between peoples machines wasn't so great, now it is. This doesn't seem to have been taken into consideration.

[Logos]

Your machine plays a role; there's no doubt about it. Your videocard, in particular, is not going to let you get high enough framerates that you won't have mouselag, and mouselag will most definitely impact your play.

As far as kills vs captures go, I looked at a FAQ at UBI that had the points you got for various things in the game, and they were either wrong, or incredibly poorly explained. It seems like I get between 6-15 kills a game, and the points never seem to reflect how well I've done, and not just with kills; I'm considering captures and suppressive fire and whatnot, as well. I've had what felt like terrible matches where I was 2nd or 3rd in points when all was said and done.

As far as getting owned, and people with lots of kills, I think it's more other people being bad than them being good. For example, the most kills I've had in a round is 31. It's not because I'm great. It's because I, along with one other guy who I was on comms with, shut down a portion of a map close to their spawn, and the morons kept respawning and coming my way, trying to get me for killing them, then trying to get me for killing them twice, then three times, etc., etc.. 31 kills later.... you get the picture. 31 kills was not because I'm great. It was because my oppponents were acting stupid.

I suspect that the people you're seeing with consistently high kills are people who have found their spots, and who have people on comms with them covering their flanks. Give it time. Learn the maps. You'll be fine.

Oh, and get a 7800GS.

[SAF_Biffa]

Well that's some good advice, but I've played it quite a bit and have some spots, I love the fact that you can win through tactical play rather than how many kills you have.

To fully explain my concerns you would need to know a bit about my clans history, it has stuck with the series for ten years, most of it's members have been in it almost that long, the clan remained unbeaten on the old Rumble ladder and ruled the TWL GR ladder at the no1 spot for 2years out of the 3, winning more matches and with a better average (100+ matches just in the 5v5) than any clan or guild in any game or game type in TWL.

As well as heavy involvement in GR modding and anti cheat (MORPF).

So it's a history we are rightly proud of, I desperatley want us to be able to stick with this game but it boils down to a choice between losing some of the most passionate players in the community or moving on to a game that has a more reasonable expectation of players machine specs to keep our clan together and alive.

If it was an issue with just a couple of our guys then we're the type of group that would donate gear to help one another, but it's not.

So you can see my quandry.

[FA sear]

Don't feel bad, my machine has the same specs as yours except that I have 2.0 Ram and mine kept crashing with the demo. It downloaded and appeared to start fine, but then all of a sudden I would get an error message and the game would shut down.

Back to [GR] for now.

[=VR= dr_awesome]

I don't know that it's your rig, but I do know one of the things that helped me was ignoring the rets on the screen. I would always wait for them to close for a split second at distance, but I realized that a. they wouldn't close and b. you pretty much shoot straight no matter what. That helped me start winning alot more 1v1's, though I still lose some to lag (and carelessness) Also, I started running at 800x600 at the lowest settings and that helped.

BTW, I've got a 2.4ghz, 1 gig ram, 6800 128mb UL/OC

[LtShady]

Im sure people are doing it, but I wouldnt want to play this game with less the a 256 card. It just wouldnt be fun when you consider the frame rate and lag you will run into.

Im running a 2.8 Dual Core, 2 gigs, and ATI X850 256 PCI xpress... and I still think that the mouse lag is an issue. I had to turn everything to medium.

[SAF_Biffa]

It's still tough tho, you feel like everyone has the jump on you, I keep pressing esc with frustration and leaving the game, it gets tiresome after dying like 8 times in row with no kill.

One option I was thinking was to stick with just being a coop clan since the lag isn't so bad or so important. But then I'm not sure they'd like that.

[viiiper]

@ SAF_Biffa

I've played with 9800XT and can tell you there is alot in this game that depends on machine power & connection to the net.

When played locally I've noticed that I have movement issues with the poor frame rate...

online I've notived the lag time can seriously affect the outcome....

I've now upgraded Graphics and the movement is not an issue but lag can still affect you [me].

I normally play with the sound up high to listen for foot steps and movement but it's also a pain when that dam VOICE comes on saying " golf zone has fallen ....blah blah.."

This is one of the few games that your playing tactics count for alot...

KNOWING THE MAP !!!

LISTENING FOR THE ENEMY

I think you will as I will notice a big diffrence WHEN WE GET THE LMS & Team v TEAM NO RESPAWN....... just like GR1..

GR was never about KILL COUNTS !!! it's about KILL AND NOT BE SEEN / STEALTH and

of course ENJOYING the experiance...

Just wait for the BIG PATCH .. hopefully JUNE/JULY 06

[chiles4]

If I were you I wouldn't be stuck on "Domination" mode. From what I've heard about it it's not that great. When the June patch comes out, I'm sure alot of people will dump it for TDM.

Give co-op a try. Myself and many people in the GR community have been playing GR1 in co-op for years.

[ARDelta]

So it's a history we are rightly proud of, I desperatley want us to be able to stick with this game but it boils down to a choice between losing some of the most passionate players in the community or moving on to a game that has a more reasonable expectation of players machine specs to keep our clan together and alive.

If it was an issue with just a couple of our guys then we're the type of group that would donate gear to help one another, but it's not.

So you can see my quandry.

I know exactly how you feel, Biffa. However, I would say that for the foreseeable future, each new game will require higher, and higher sytem specifications. I would say GRAW is not the exception, but more the norm.

[SAF_Biffa]

Jyup! I'm quite familiar with coop missions

Hope not ARDelta! This is one heck of a system jump!

[WS-LTH]

I am from a BHD squad called LTH, and I run an athlon 64 3000 running at 2.0, I have a 6600 gpu. I run everything at low unfortunately. I still get 20 to 24 fps. But I do get some mouse and general lag, and often peeps seem to be warping across the screen. My kill ratio also sint great and I am a experienced FPS. Actually I am experienced at alot... I am 48 years young. . I usually have positive kills ratios but not by much. I use single shot mostly with quick multiple trigger pulls. When on auto the recoil has me shooting at the stars. I try to line up fields of fire where the bad guy has to cross my field of fire. Some games it works pretty well but in a quick one on one, I usually lose. Oh well, at least the beer is still cold.

[chiles4]

Welcome to the forums WS-LTH! Know that you're not the only one with "a lot of experience" around here.

Biffa, keep in mind that you may be playing against people who've put in A LOT OF PLAYING TIME on the maps. I only get about 2-3 solid hours of gaming a WEEK so if I got into adverserial I'd have my butt handed to me.

From the little adverserial I did (in VietCong), it was obvious you had to hitch your reflex times up a couple of notches to compete. In adv. MP, personal tactics are critical. In co-op, its more about co-operative tactics and reflexes take a less important role. Heck, in VC co-op, if you played Medic (rear of squad) you might not even see any action as your role might only be supportive. Co-op is a whole different animal.

It's distressing to hear of people with 6600s who are not getting good frame rates - >40fps. I know there are a ton of young people out there who are lucky to have the rigs they do and don't have a spare $400 lying around to buy an uber-video card.

I have an overclocked 6800GT with an oc'ed cpu and fsb. I averaged about 38-40fps. I finally decided to go into the Nvidia control panel and create a custom profile for GRAW. I moved the quality/performance slider to "performance" - something I would never consider doing. Now I seem to be in the 40-50fps range most of the time. It might worth trying if you're desperate for frames. All it seemed to do was make the everything a little "softer" but not bad.

[cHi]

I have a 2.2 AMD 64 3500, 1.5 Gb Ram and a 6800 GT 256 MB pci-x, and I average about 30 FPS on 800x600 with medium settings, and I am feeling some of your pain believe me. The mouse lag is the worst though, I have died many times because I couldn't place my ret efficiently before firing, so I either miss altogether or get shot before I get a chance to line up my aim accurately. Hope this is fixed with the next patch. As far as acquiring kills however, being able to play with friends/clanmates on comms is essential in this game I believe, as moving together and operating as a unit keeps you alive, and at the same time allows you to rack up more kills.

[WS-LTH]

Thanks Chili, I will try that adjustment to performance. Our Squad LTH, has been playing Novalogic shooters for many years, but are now looking at new games outside of Novalogic. Hopefully you will see more of LTH in the future.

[SAF_Biffa]

Jeez, WS-LTH, I started talking about processor figures and you start bringing age into it, I hope it's not because I'm also 40+ that I'm getting owned!

Actually come to think of it a lot of our guys are quite 'Young' too.

So the theory goes the higher your age the higher your spec has to be to allow for a certain level of senile slowness??

[WS-LTH]

Yeppers Biffa, I think the guy who came up with "age and treachery will beat youth and skill", never played computer games. But us old guys still have our value and occasionaly we can show up those young pups.

[Skidmark]

Jeez, WS-LTH, I started talking about processor figures and you start bringing age into it, I hope it's not because I'm also 40+ that I'm getting owned!

Actually come to think of it a lot of our guys are quite 'Young' too.

So the theory goes the higher your age the higher your spec has to be to allow for a certain level of senile slowness??

In answer to your post.I was running an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro, wasn't doing to bad at Domination. I have since updated to an ATI X1600 512mb AGP card. Doing alot better now. Hopefully your issue won't last once (hopefully) Grin gets us some proper MP gametypes, IE. LMS,Seige etc. Then it will be more about team tactics than this BS run 'n 'Gun counterstrike style we see right now.

Edited May 13, 2006 by }PW{ Payback

[SAF_Psychdlc]

I agree with Payback on the game type issue as well as Biffa on some other problems.

First of all the spec problem is intensified severally by the nature of the maps and the game play. I have played a few hours now and most of my combat situations are between 5-15 meters. Plus I generally have stopped worrying about running in the open if cover is close because nobody seems to be able to hit you from a distance if you are on the move zigging and zaggin then ducking into the endless maze of cover areas. Too much mouse lag / ping lag etc... Most of the kills I have been getting are running up into the enemy territory finding some shadowy nook and shooting people in the back or side as they run out to the front lines. Now I have some really high scores like this but it’s not really fun, tactical or realistic.

The Maps - The maps are just poorly planned for game play. This is too bad. If you notice in GR allot of the maze type maps also include some open areas to compliment them. Island- the hill- Market the outer streets - Docks, Castle etc...

These maps seem to be all close quarters. Everybody knows that this kind of combat always favors the monster machines with the good connections. I have a fairly decent machine 7800 GS - 3.2 proc - 1g corsair ram - yet if I am on a US server I may win only 1 of 10 (10%) of these (1v1 both hear footsteps strafing around corner - situations that are so prevalent in GRAW) then I may hop on a UK server then I might be up around 80% next game (Playing from Sweden)... I mean even if your ping is acting up or you machine is lower spec or if you’re just having a bad day - you can adapt in most games - by sniping or altering your game play to work yourself back into your game. But it just seems impossible - in GRAW to get out of a rut without changing servers - and I have played with some very good fps players that can’t buy a kill on some servers. I mean they can’t even shoot somebody in the back walking 30 meters by them. I am glad this is not my situation but it must be frustrating as h***.

This creates a game that in most cases you can sprint from your spawn to the other spawn through the cover zones with almost no enemy contact. There are simply too many ways in and out so there are no good choke points, kill zones or bottle necks. All the great maps have to have these heavily contested zones - Look at any classic - i.e. MBC, Castle, Tank or even maze type maps like Polling or DeDust etc...

BUT unfortunately so far all I have seen is cqb areas. I realize its early days and I am still learning the maps - and yes there are some great nooks that you can peek out of and kill endless enemies as they run out of their spawn area but as for trying to secure areas and move up methodically as a group - it just isn't happening - YET. not giving up

The Game Play -

In a nutshell - here is an average game play chart for me so far -

run run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - kill cover peek - kill - ---dead -

run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - dead -

run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - kill - cover -- dead

run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - dead -

run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - kill - run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run find a nook with a clearing enemy must pass to get from spawn to front line - kill - kill - kill - kill - kill - kill - kill - kill -- dead--

run run run run - dead-

run run run - look for guy spawn camping??????? - dead-

run run run - kill - got him run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - dead -

run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run run contact - kill - kill - dead -

Game Over --

14 kills

9 deaths

Now that would be probably put me in the top 1-4 positions out of 32 players yet I feel like I have had a crap game and accomplished nothing but run around like a chicken with my head cut off.

Plus I thinks its silly all this running around constantly - and being able to have a good game and die 9 times...

I think thats the problem with the nature of the gameplay itself. It forces you to run constantly and generally the only reason you stop is because somebody is shooting at you or you got killed there last spawn. You can't look at the maps and say ok well I have 5 players two zones ahead of me so this area is probaly secure - because it probably isn't

My suggestion for quick game play fix - Get rid of some points like 5 or 3 total per map to create some focal points. Too many points mean that none are worth defending - It pays much better to run run run - Frankly I am already sick of running in this game but I have to admit if you stay on the run and zig you are almost unhittable by most players - Not because of their skill level but because of the lag issues.

Two Immersion issues – and I have seen these a thousand times by others here and on other forums so while I ‘m whining I will throw in my 2 cents here too.

Gun shopping – why??? Please just get rid of it – For me it just takes me out of the game and seems silly – Pick your kit at the beginning of the game and stick to it.

Im DEAD – Ok one of the best parts about GR is that you actually jump when you get shot. You actually fear it – It makes the play intense. GRAW nothing – often you just know you got shot in the back (because of your fancy indicator)from somebody you never saw then you are buying your weapon from the invisible arms dealer in the sky and back to run run run…Make dying matter again – PLEASE especially if I am going to do it 8+ times a game.

Last note here on a long boring post I hope somebody at GRIN/Ubi takes the time to read….

To a lot of people GR was the best shooter ever. Now we have seen a lot of attempts in the last years where all the big fps projects are trying to incorporate everything from every popular game- COD UO – BF2 – AA- CS:S etc.. –---- Soldner was the biggest race horse that turned out to be a Camel because it was designed by committee – etc…

GR doesn’t need CS buying weapons – It doesn’t need BF domination game play – It doesn’t need wild run and gun COD action and it definitely doesn’t need an unrealistic Micheal Jackson moonwalk slide. I think 99% of your GRAW target group (especially since you have spec-ed out a huge percentage of players that won’t be able to afford the rigs to play competitively) would give up all those along with exploding barrels and tin cans you can kick around for tight game play that allows two opposing teams to go out and mix it up using strategy, teamwork, map knowledge and weapons skills.

Now after all that whining you might be surprised that I think the game is GREAT! -and my hat is off to GRIN and ubi for this game. That is because its 90% there most of the hard part is done and it has more potential than anything I have seen in years…but this last 10% must be fixed – it is absolutely crucial otherwise the whole thing will have been a waste of time. So please keep on the forums and listen to all these old schoolers ramblings – If you do you will be reaping the success of this games for years to come -

[Lightspeed]

^^^^ absolutely what he said.

the run'n'gun sucks.

the enjoyment is not there.

its cqb, not GR.

buying weapons and getting new weapons magically is so unrealistic, how it got into GR I will never know.

(Devs step away from the desks for a minute and think - what is GR? what made GR, GR? look at the classic GR maps (MBC, Castle Day, Docks Day, Ghost Town, PoW Camp, Village, Prison Camp, Creekbed, Tank - were any of these CQB? No - and why not? 'Cos CQB is not GR. Sure here n there you might get a dusting of it, but it is the exception that proves the rule for GR - GR = open space. Now go back to your desks and start over).

as far as trying to get some benefit from Dom - I would suggest finding a group of 2-4 teammates and work closely as a unit to progress. Set up crossfires and flanking to win.

It still sucks but its the only way to try to enjoy it.

[viiiper]

Im DEAD – Ok one of the best parts about GR is that you actually jump when you get shot. You actually fear it – It makes the play intense. GRAW nothing – often you just know you got shot in the back (because of your fancy indicator)from somebody you never saw then you are buying your weapon from the invisible arms dealer in the sky and back to run run run…Make dying matter again – PLEASE especially if I am going to do it 8+ times a game.

SO TRUE !!!!! THAT in a nut shell is what is wrong with GRAW !!!

NO FEAR !!!!

If I play GRAW like I played GR1 then I get nowhere , but like SAF said, if I

play RUN RUN RUN with server lag running 100+ mS then I end up being in top 5

This game needs a major GAMEPLAY FIX !!!

SAF_Biffa ... Notihing to do with you !!! it's the whole game style of GR has been

changed to the point that it realy is not GR as we know or want it !!!

BRING BACK the fear for death factor

[SAF_Biffa]

Yep, nice Psych, actually I guess I want more people to be able to afford to play the game so the code, texturing, mem leaks, processor efficiency needs to be fixed AND the fear factor, i.e One life, getting whacked and dying realisitically.

The problem with using Dom as the gametype to kick off with is that it just sits GRAW in the Cod, BF2 area which is already full of plenty of games, let's get back to those GR roots and remind ourselves why so many of us waited years for this sequel.

Maybe a lot of this can be fixed with the game types, I really hope so.

Note:I absolutley love the focus back on to squads and your squad leader, which is great and what GR is about for so many of us, tactical points as well as kill pts is perfect.

[SAF_Night Scope]

(...)

Now after all that whining you might be surprised that I think the game is GREAT! -and my hat is off to GRIN and ubi for this game. That is because its 90% there most of the hard part is done and it has more potential than anything I have seen in years…but this last 10% must be fixed – it is absolutely crucial otherwise the whole thing will have been a waste of time. So please keep on the forums and listen to all these old schoolers ramblings – If you do you will be reaping the success of this games for years to come -

Great post, Psy. I think you hit the nail right in the head with the things that need to be fixed, good job.