Sony live in five minutes

[Sup]

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3live.html

[Hatchetforce]

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3live.html

I have been watching. Sony is in serious trouble. The videos show that the Cell isn't what they thought. The best looking titles are also on the 360. A very weak and boring conference.

[Deadpreacher]

http://www.gamespot.com/e3/e3live.html

I have been watching. Sony is in serious trouble. The videos show that the Cell isn't what they thought. The best looking titles are also on the 360. A very weak and boring conference.

Agreed!

I was waiting the whole show to see anything look as good if not better than GoW and it didn't happen.

Anyways the only thing that i really liked was a feature with the cards and camra. Was a nice trick and would like to see more on what that can do later down the road.

P.S.

On a side note the people there didn't sound all that happy ether from barly clapping to just a golf clap. So far im glad im not one of the guys that where holding off for a PS3 alone.

[Sup]

MGS4 was amazing, and the few games they should in engine were rather impressive.

And MGS4 was amazing. Naughty dog's game looked good, even though they didnt' show gameplay. Genji2 was graphically impressive, and if the gameplay is like the ps2 game it will be good. The card trick with the eyetoy was cool, and heavanly sword looked great.

[Hatchetforce]

Genji 2 looked very PS2. Heavenly Sword looked good, but the final scene reeked of CGI. MGS4 looked great. Warhawk didn't live up to last years CGI. Killzone was a no show. Controller? The guy demoing it couldn't control it.

360 has:

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=34294

PS3 20GB(499) + game(60) + tax = $600

PS3 60GB(599) + game(60) + tax = $700

Also, no dual HDMI as originally claimed. No built in WiFi:

http://www.scei.co.jp/corporate/release/pdf/060509ae.pdf

Edited May 9, 2006 by Hatchetforce

[Deadpreacher]

I hate to bring this up, but

Did anyone find out what the 4D was?????

[Hatchetforce]

It gets better:

FINAL PS3 IS LARGER THAN XBOX 360

PS3:

325mm x 98mm x 274 mm

X360:

309 mm x 83 mm x 258 mm

From another site:

$499 PS3 = NO COMPACT FLASH, NO SD, NO MEMORY STICK, NO HMDI (ie. NO HDTV BLU-RAY MOVIES SINCE HDMI IS A REQUIRED STANDARD FOR IT), NO WI-FI. I also assume that this missing ports can't be added via options later since again ports seem an integrated thing. SOOOOO... $599 or bust.

Apparently the cheaper version doesn't have even a single HDMI output. That means no Blu Ray movies since HDMI is required. Hmmmm....

It's sad but Sony has made some critical miscalculations and that price is going to murder them. Jay Allard is probably getting drunk with Peter Moore tonight celebrating.

As one site posted:

And this from another site. I saw it in the conference I watched but here:

Pursuant to the introduction of this new six-axis sensing system, the vibration

feature that is currently available on DUALSHOCK® and DUALSHOCK®2 controllers for

PlayStation and PlayStation®2, will be removed from the new PS3 controller as vibration itself interferes with information detected by the sensor

[Deadpreacher]

I forgot about that (DUALSHOCK) if you ask me thats one of the best features for even wanting to use a controler becuase it brings the game to life being able to feel whats going on in the game! They really need to add in two types of controlers one with DUALSHOCK without the sensor & one without DUALSHOCK with a sensor. Im not one for dancing around the TV anyways so the sensor is not a wanted option anyways.

[Sup]

I dunno, after using the Nintendo wavebird for so long I don't really mind the absence of rumble.

[Hatchetforce]

I have yet to pick up a controller that feels as comfortable as the 360 controller.

[Sup]

I have yet to pick up a controller that feels as comfortable as the 360 controller.

To me, nothing comes close to beating the GCN controller. X360 seems great, though, from what little time I've had with it.

[Deadpreacher]

I never used the Nintendo wavebird.

Yet for me if there is no rumble its just to lifeless for me than im back cring for a K/M! The rumble is what makes the controler even worth usen to me. I remeber when i first got my x360 the rumble was turn off at first and the games just felt so lifeless. I have growen so attached to the rumble thats it's just as a usefull as surround sound is to me now. Without it ether the game losses life.

[Sup]

http://www.gametrailers.com/player.php?type=mov&id=10421 MGS4

[Hatchetforce]

Sony had the most borning conference ever. It started almost an hour late to boot. Very little was impressive. They directly attempted to rip off LIVE which will be funny when they try to stand up a full blown world wide network like Live but they have no experience.

The controller was ill conceived and the guy had trouble flying the plane. He looked like he had tourettes. He botched the landing as well.

Heavenly Sword looked good, but it is going to have to compete with Ninja Gaiden 2.

MGS4 looked great, but it was pre-rendered. All of it.

The rest of the titles failed to wow and Kaz Hirai looked severly embarrassed. Sony took some risks showing things during the show that didn't quite work - like the controller. It's a design built by MS and Logitech in 1999.

They bombed - huge. The TXB boards were full of Sony fanboys screaming and they crashed and burned the minute the price went up. I mean you could watch people do the turn around. There were literally 2 out of over a 1000 that said they were still getting one.

Sony hyped the PS3 as a Blu ray machine. Yet Blu ray only works for movies if you have HDMI. This means the higher price SKU because there is no HDMI on the lower priced unit. You remember, Sony attacked MS for dual SKUs. Blu ray discs are expensive too. And you need a TV with HDMI in.

It should be obvious to most on this board that while I like a handful of Sony titles, I personally despise Sony. They are arrogant, do not communicate with gamers, and they are liars of the worst caliber.

Anyone developing for the PS3 is in for a rough ride. Dev kits are expensive and quite frankly you are not going to get your return. The PS3 is going to be bomb, rather than be the bomb. 360 sales are going to hit the roof.

MS has their conference today and when they show real time games like Too Human, Huxley, Prey, BFME II, Mass Effect, as well as the HALO 3 trailer, it is going to be over. GAF is attacking Sony and they used to be their biggest supporter.

Zero innovation from Sony and the games just are not there. This smells just like 3dFx showing off the Voodoo 6000. If you are old gamer, you know what I mean.

Edited May 9, 2006 by Hatchetforce

[FA sear]

Ouch, that is some seriously painful reading.

I don't need to repeat my experiences with Sony, so needless to say I don't feel sorry for them. Looks like a train going full speed toward a bridge that is out.

I hope MS and Nintendo clean house in the console market.

[Sup]

MGS4 looked great, but it was pre-rendered. All of it.

Never has a MGS game been shown pre-rendered. As both an artist and a fan of videogames, I can say with 100% certainty that was made up of in engine cutscenes.

[Hatchetforce]

MGS4 looked great, but it was pre-rendered. All of it.

Never has a MGS game been shown pre-rendered. As both an artist and a fan of videogames, I can say with 100% certainty that was made up of in engine cutscenes.

Pre-rendering was done with the game engine. Pre-render doesn't mean exclusively CGI. It mean it was a completely controlled render. This allows a scene to demonstrate capabilities beyond what the actual game may be able to provide. There is no AI structure or anything required. And that MGS4 video still had some very bad stutters. Even Sony said they were running on final hardware. Precisely they said the VIDEOS were running on final hardware. Talk to some of the other people like John Sonedecker. It was prerendered.

The video last year was pre-rendered. And the demo by Hideo Kojima was in engine, but not real time. There is a huge difference.

[Sup]

The video last year was pre-rendered. And the demo by Hideo Kojima was in engine, but not real time. There is a huge difference.

No, Pre rendered means it's rendered before it's shown. That was in engine, realtime rendering -- of a cutscene. No AI or physics, but this is all in engine. And running in real time. As was last years.

[snared_gambit]

Hideo Kojima has never used pre-rendered anything. I doubt he would start now.

[Hatchetforce]

The video last year was pre-rendered. And the demo by Hideo Kojima was in engine, but not real time. There is a huge difference.

No, Pre rendered means it's rendered before it's shown. That was in engine, realtime rendering -- of a cutscene. No AI or physics, but this is all in engine. And running in real time. As was last years.

When John Sonedecker gets back he'll explain it to you. If it was live, that would mean there was a PS3 sitting over there and it was running live code on the hardware. John is out there at E3 and it isn't the case, It's pre-rendered. It does use the game engine, but they are also able to strip out unnecessary code so it runs smoother. Ask him, he was a lead designer on R6 and GR1. I think he knows what he is talking about. Even when a machine is running code, if it is scripted with no player input, all the necessaty work that a console or PC must do can be removed and the scene streamlined for maximum efficiency.

Kojima was able to stop a scene and manipulate it. But like John told me, it is a nice effect but with everything scripted in the scene, it isn't real time. Not real time the way a ga,e is and you are running around with random factors, AI, Physics, 5.1 audio, etc.

It is the game engine, but neither last years nor this year was running live code. Some of the videos shown were simply being played back from a PS3 hard drive. The were not running game code in real time. That means - pre-rendered. As I am typing this, he and I are on the phone. He just called and came back from E3 early. Helookked at the stuff out there and walked away telling me Sony blew it - big time.

Despite all their work, the MGS4 video had some massive 5 frames per second moments.

Of course the other John, John Carmack, also had some less than choice words for Sony even tthough Kevin P, that ###### from G4, tried to cut him off.

I HAD a PS3 reservation. But I cancelled it the day after the conference. And price had nothing to do with it.

Edited May 13, 2006 by Hatchetforce

[Sup]

It's still real time if you're stopping and manipulating things; simply not in game.

As I said before, I'm well aware that there's a difference between In engine, Real time, and gameplay.

You're mixing up the terms. The MGS footage shown has been in engine and rendered in real time, then recorded and played back. Technically rendered before it's showing, but not how 'Pre-rendered' is normally used.

It was clearly in engine, too, just as you said there was no scripting, AI, physics, or anything else that is required for gameplay.

That said, Metal Gear Solid games traditionally look pretty similar between gameplay and cutscenes (which are an excellent example of in engine graphics outside of gameplay).

All MGS3 had different was a little bit of blurring. Without a doubt, MGS4 will look very close to what was shown. It isn't that impressive (no more than some x360 games that have been shown, on a technical level;) Most of what looks so great about it is the artwork, not the technology. However, that trailer is pretty indicative of what gameplay will look like on the final PS3, or would look like on the Xbox.

It seems you're being awfully negative toward Konami to express your frustration with Sony.

[Hatchetforce]

It's still real time if you're stopping and manipulating things; simply not in game.

As I said before, I'm well aware that there's a difference between In engine, Real time, and gameplay.

You're mixing up the terms. The MGS footage shown has been in engine and rendered in real time, then recorded and played back. Technically rendered before it's showing, but not how 'Pre-rendered' is normally used.

It was clearly in engine, too, just as you said there was no scripting, AI, physics, or anything else that is required for gameplay.

That said, Metal Gear Solid games traditionally look pretty similar between gameplay and cutscenes (which are an excellent example of in engine graphics outside of gameplay).

All MGS3 had different was a little bit of blurring. Without a doubt, MGS4 will look very close to what was shown. It isn't that impressive (no more than some x360 games that have been shown, on a technical level;) Most of what looks so great about it is the artwork, not the technology. However, that trailer is pretty indicative of what gameplay will look like on the final PS3, or would look like on the Xbox.

It seems you're being awfully negative toward Konami to express your frustration with Sony.

Since you know more than a known game developer why even post anymore. Kojima was in engine, but not real time. You are the one confusing the terms. There is a difference between something occuring in real time and a game running in real time. What you are actually trying to say is the sequence is being rendered ON THE FLY. The issue here is that sequences run the exact same every time. That means the game is scripted...tightly scripted. No one can test the other elements of the game because the game is gutted in order to allow other effects to operate at their maximum. This is particularly important since the game has yet to be optimized. Showing scripted sequences used to make a movie is not real time. That isn't a game. Period It is elements OF a game. The industry calls this FMV.

The video that was shown by Sony at E3 this year was played. Then a longer version was played. The shorter version elements were EXACTLTY what occurred in the longer version. Why? It was film from a scripted sequence that had the game engine as it's basis.

Cliffy B showed a trailer for Gears of War. A trailer. THEN HE RAN THE GAME IN REAL TIME PLAYING A DEMO. I had two different friends out there. The MGS clip was a movie running on the PS3, not real time code being run on the PS3. You can think what you want, I am through discussing it with you.

Sony is getting their come uppance. They lied to and deceived the entire world and Konami participated in that deception. Killzone wasn't the only lie they told last year. Showing anything last year and saying it was PS3 was BS. The PS3 didn't even exist in beta form. People kept asking, Why does the MGS trailer this year not look as good as last year? Because as they begin to add more elements to the game, they discovered that the actual hardware of the PS3 couldn't cope with the game as it currently stands.

If you think all of the shots of the names of the characters coming in and stopping on the screen such as Naomi Hunter, Snake, Old Snake, etc is real time, then you are smoking dope pure and simple. That isn't real time. When are you going to get that? You know what? It doesn't matter. You know more than developers so the hell with it. It's a trailer. Period. A movie trailer. They used the game engine to do it but it isn't running in real time. End of the ###### story. Go poke your head in the sand if you want.

Personally I like the MGS titles. But I also don't like to lied to. I for one am tired of these developers lying to gamers. It seems you are being awfully easy on Konami in your defense of Sony.

[Sup]

Showing scripted sequences used to make a movie is not real time. That isn't a game. Period It is elements OF a game. The industry calls this FMV.

You couldn't be more wrong. That is what is called an in engien (or real time) cutscene.

It isn't a game; you're correct. Full motion video, though, is rendered, recorded, and played as any other video.

The MGS trailer was a video running on the PS3, yes, but it was rendered (obviously in real time at some point) to the engine's spec (for cutscenes, of course; not necessarily gameplay) and recorded to be played back.

This isn't at all unusual. I could record any number of in engine, real time cutscenes from games I own and post them online, and you wouldn't be arguing about the legitimacy.

Konami and Hideo Kojima didn't lie to you. Sony did, but not about MGS4. What you saw of the characters being introduced was nothign special at all. I would not be suprised if it's actually in the game. Obviously in the form of a (non gameplay, to be clear) cutscene, but being rendered in real time (or on the fly, if you prefer that term) by a PS3. Just as the same assets could be (easily) rendered by an X360 or PC.

Excellent art doesn't make an impressive console, but it certainly isn't beyond what the PS3 could do. The best texture artists could get something looking pretty close to the characters in MGS4 into Ghost Recon (1), even.

If I'm not making myself clear, what i was trying to say at the end is that you're doubting something that isn't even very (technically) impressive.

Good art looks great on any system. It's not some inplausible example of the PS3's power; it's a talented artist at Konami.

[Deadpreacher]

Why do you two always seem to be going at it? You guys ain't married are you?

[Hatchetforce]

Showing scripted sequences used to make a movie is not real time. That isn't a game. Period It is elements OF a game. The industry calls this FMV.

You couldn't be more wrong. That is what is called an in engien (or real time) cutscene.

It isn't a game; you're correct. Full motion video, though, is rendered, recorded, and played as any other video.

The MGS trailer was a video running on the PS3, yes, but it was rendered (obviously in real time at some point) to the engine's spec (for cutscenes, of course; not necessarily gameplay) and recorded to be played back.

This isn't at all unusual. I could record any number of in engine, real time cutscenes from games I own and post them online, and you wouldn't be arguing about the legitimacy.

Konami and Hideo Kojima didn't lie to you. Sony did, but not about MGS4. What you saw of the characters being introduced was nothign special at all. I would not be suprised if it's actually in the game. Obviously in the form of a (non gameplay, to be clear) cutscene, but being rendered in real time (or on the fly, if you prefer that term) by a PS3. Just as the same assets could be (easily) rendered by an X360 or PC.

Excellent art doesn't make an impressive console, but it certainly isn't beyond what the PS3 could do. The best texture artists could get something looking pretty close to the characters in MGS4 into Ghost Recon (1), even.

If I'm not making myself clear, what i was trying to say at the end is that you're doubting something that isn't even very (technically) impressive.

Good art looks great on any system. It's not some inplausible example of the PS3's power; it's a talented artist at Konami.

They did the same thing they did for MGS2 and MGS3. Those cutscenes are movies. MGS2 had 2 cutscenes that were scripted engine sequences. The rest were movies that were filmed using the gutted and scripted game engine. That lets developers adjust the music and sound, add in any effects, add FSAA and then speed up the frame rate, adjust the color, etc. That is what Sony showed this year. And that pal, isn't someone running the sequence with a controller. And that isn't game code on the disk generating 3D sequences. It isn't what Cliffy B did with GoW. It is a hi def movie file. End of discussion, end of argument.

Edited May 13, 2006 by Hatchetforce