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ok, so i'm going to be working this summer and will have a ###### load of money by the end of summer and wanted to reward myself with a new computer. (currently i'm running a PII 350 and ATI 8500LE!!). i'm looking to spend under $2000 (canadian that is). now i see dell offering P4 @ 2.6 with GF4 TX's for around 1500-1700 (all prices Canadian remember) is this a good deal? or should i try and get one custom built at a local shop? or is there a better computer maker that i could get a better comp from?

any help/oppinions would be appreciated. thanks :D

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dell....pffffft...build your own i got stuck with a dell and they are pretty good but not really built to upgrade if ya plan on it in the future...

canadian link check this out for a whole wack of links for some good deals and canadian suppliers

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with GF4 TX's for
You mean Ti's I assume :P

Build your own. Its that simple. Prefabs BLOW! Except NW Falcon, Voodoo and Alienware. But building your own is still the best idea. Between now and summer is awhile though so things will change. And at the least you should pick out the parts yourself and hire somebody else to build it.

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ok, build my own it is. since i don't really have the hardware know-how to actually build it myself i can go to a local store (they'll to anything you want if you give them enough money) even if the quality is a bit dodgey.

and ya, summer is a while away but i start my job, part time, quite soon.

anywho, thanks for the advice all :D

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JTF-2,

Have you decided whether to go Intel or AMD? The reason I ask is, an AMD rig can be built for cheaper than an Intel. It is up to you, however, AMD offers more "bang-for-buck".

Let us know your decision and if need be, we'll help you spec out your new system.

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i agree with dark ranger go AMD , just this week i built a basic gaming rig for a friend MSI kt3 ultra mobo

AMD athlon xp 2400

MSI gf4 mx 440

512 ddr 333

ATX case with a 350 psu

maxtor 40 gig hd

xp home

now he wanted a basic graphics card till he could afford better and he also had a burner , this pc cost $750 canadian plus tax to build and will offer him plenty of upgrade space hes using onboard sound for the moment but the pc runs fast and stable for quite cheap

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As said, build it yaself or if you haven't the experience or confidence someone will build one for you for not too much dosh :)! That way it will be tailor made exactly to your specs as there's often at least 1 component in a pre-built that lets a system down and it's always cheaper too!!

You will get warranty of a sort too. You won't get it on the system as a whole but each individual part you fit will still have a manufacturers warranty on it so if something goes ffffttt then ya still covered from that angle :)!

With many things that gives you more warranty than a pre-built system will give you anyway.....AMD's for example have a 3 year warranty and the majority of pre-built's like Dell etc will give you a 1 year warranty on the system and then charge you for extra year(s) warranty on top of that.....So ya still covered :)!

Edited by Urban_Tiger
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actualy its an agp card they are only $80 canuck here , he is actualy saving for a ti 4600 but as the pc came out so cheap he agreed on the mx and BTW he scored 7200 odd on madonion 2001 but his pcpitstop score was 1300 which is 260 higher than mine, i think hell have a great pc once he adds a sound card the games look sweet on the gf4 mx and he doesnt seem in too much of a rush now to upgrade the vid card

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If you want we can give more advice on the parts now

:lol: thats exactly what i was going to ask. you read my mind

what's the difference between AMD and intel? i know AMD is cheaper but why?

please go ahead and give me reasonable system specs. it would be much appreciated (i'll probably end up printing them out and taking them straight to the pc store). AMD or intel, i don't mind as long as it's under $2000 canuck. i'd also like to have a lot of ugradeability and a nice graphics card. This is the killer but i'd also like a monitor included in all this... :(

Edited by JTF-2
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well take the system i built for a friend add a sb audigy and a gf4 ti 4200 and a 17 inch used monitor and your looking about $1200 canadian , thats a great gaming pc for quite cheap

or change the xp athlon 2400 for a 1900 or a 1800 and youl still come ina round a grand or lessand have a pc that will run all games looking and sounding sweet

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With a 2,000 budget aint much stoppin you. Diff between AMD and Intel...such a long subject and there could be hundreds of posts deciding all the differences and who's better. AMD is ussually but not always less expensive then Intel chips. However AMD isn't ussually as good of an overclocker nor is it always up to par how far it says it is i.e. 2800 does not always compare to a 2.8GHz Intel chip. Plus you have more cache too. Graphics is also debated between Ati and nVidia, but currently the best card out is the 9700 Pro (Screw the All In Wonder) and soon it will be the 9800 Pro. Hardrive may aswell just be some 80Gigger with 8MB Cache. Mobo (Motherboard) depends on the type of CPU you choose. Ram, go ahead and get PC3200. As for sound a Voyatra Santa Cruz Turtle Beach is killer and not expensive either. PSU, you'll want 550 Watts since this is kinda a beast and why not, you said you wanted upgradability :D (Antec True Power @550Watts). Case, I would reccommend this http://www.tigerdirect.com/sectors/chieftec/dragon.asp but you can get it there speratly w/o the mouse and Keyboard. A monitor hmm...View Sonic maybe 19". Modem, who cares, I dont know much bout Burners and all so you ought have somebody else help you with that. And you can pick up a nice speaker set for $100 made by Altec Lansing model is 251.

P.S. Intel all the way man! Oh and you could even get a 3.06 ;)

Note, once you pick your CPU we can continue on.

Edited by Stinger
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sure, i might as well go Intel. go ahead, give me your best computer/techno speak list of parts. i like the bits you suggested Stinger.

Intel (what speed?)

don't need a burner (i've already got one)

DVD would be nice...

some kind of ATI card (highest budget will allow)

mobo?

View Sonic 17" (19" if i can afford it)

Voyatra Santa Cruz Turtle Beach

Altec Lansing model is 251 (or other?)

i really like that case you had a link for (i was always a sucker for looks...:rolleyes: )

80gig HD

Ram (what is PC3200?)

any other little parts i'm missing?

PS thanks for all this help you guys. It's pretty amazing, i just posted this thread earlier this afternoon and now look at it! i've got a bunch of semi-pros lined up to give me advice on a custom computer!!!!! anywho, Thanks. :D

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Why is AMD cheaper? 2 simple facts: They use a smaller wafer for each cpu which allows more economical use of their products and they don't 'overcharge' their products making profit many times over unlike Intel. You'll notice the 2400+ AMDs are almost the same price, if not the same, as Intel's comparable chips. Why? Because of supply and demand. The higher frequency chips are just now being made, as well as the barton core (2500, 2800, 3000XPs) which equal Intel's L2 cache and overclock just as well as Intel P4s, and AMD has limited manufacturing facilities. Thus they can't spit out cpus fast enough.

As to speed comparisons, even barton core cpus of the appropritate XP rating will match a P4 running DDR ram. I stand by this. Why? The 3000xp almost equals the 3.06ghz P4 when running on the i850e chipset sporting the superior 1066 rdram. If you want to put the change out for a 3ghz P4 and rdram combo, it is faster, but much more expensive. If you go with a ddr chipset, go AMD, it's garanteed to equal (half/half in benches) or beat a P4, plus the AMD enthusiast market is better allowing for newer techs faster.

-----

P4 chipsets, you got the 845PE by Intel for ddr ram, i850e from Intel for rdram, and Sis648 for ddr. The choice, imo, would be in the order of i850e, sis648, then 845pe. Forget Via chipsets, they're terrible as far as Intel and performance.

For AMD chipsets, you have the Nvidia Nforce2, Via KT400 and soon to be released KT400A, and sis746FX. If choosing, best to worse is, Nforce2, Kt400A, sis746fx, Kt400. Also note, Nvidia probably won't ever make a chipset for Intel. They though their licensing fees for makings products was too steep while AMD lets you make things for them almost practically free.

-----

As for upgradability. AMD has used the Socket A since the late '90s and will continue with the barton till probably 3500XP or there abouts, even introducting a 400fsb version soon. You can use just about any of their cpus in any AMD board made within the last few years.

Intel on the otherhand keeps changing sockets. One was made to achieve 2.4ghz, and another will be made soon to achieve much over 3ghz. Upgradability is a problem cause you have to buy new mbs to upgrade, and who knows how many times they may do more so on the future. This is also a marketing ploy, more mbs you buy, more they get on licensing and selling of their chipsets as well as certain mb chips such as lan interface and southbridges.

Please remember: Anything Tom's Hardware spits out isn't to be totally trusted ;) May I also note that I'm probably (correct me if I'm wrong) the only one on this website who overclocks his main computer (see sig).

Edited by RooK
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Haha got a get this in b4 RooK and his AMD ###### comes over :P Thats the evil side btw ;)

Intel P4 @ 2.8 GHz $346

MSI Max on SiS648 Chipset 8x AGP, 6 PCI ports, 3 DIMMs for up to 3 GB of Ram 400Mhz max but not fully supported, on board audio, great oc'er, great reliability, 4 IDE device supoport. http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...property&DEPA=1 $79

Speakers $100

Soundcard $70

HDD $97 http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...property&DEPA=1

Monitor Samsung Black for $235

GFX Card Radeon 9800 Pro $400

Ram 512MB PC 3000 $85 http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?...property&DEPA=1

Case $70

Total $1484 w/o shipping and install. Anything I missed or you want to improve on?

Edit, the P4 will overclock better than then AMD's of equal speed. The 3000+ is a pos, its a joke! It doesnt even compare to the 2800+ in most tests.

AMD has limited manufacturing facilities. Thus they can't spit out cpus fast enough.
HAHA you made me laugh so hard I almost farted.

it's garanteed to equal (half/half in benches) or beat a P4, plus the AMD enthusiast market is better allowing for newer techs faster.
Guaranteed by whom? Cause man I could make some money on bets.

RooK=Total All Out AMD man Me= Mostly Intel but I have said to go AMD in the past but your situation doesn't warrant it and you are gonna be rich so go with the better.

Edited by Stinger
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Stinger, I'm not sure the true conversion on Canadian dollars, but I garantee $536 USD for a cpu is over the limit if he wants anything else added in.

PC3200 is the speed of the ram, what its capable of. PC3200 actually translates in 400mhz. PC2700 like mine is 333mhz.

Don't need a sound card always. If you go AMD and get an Nforce2 board, they offer onboard sound that is 5.1 channel, sounds great and uses less cpu than a SB Audigy!

Monitor? I like NEC/Mitsubishi. Thats what I'm using now. Go CRT if your a gamer.

GFX card: choose whatever you can afford in the Pro version from ATi. Can't go wrong. Love em.

HDD: Anything with a 8mb cache and you can afford. I prefer Maxtor.

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Edit, the P4 will overclock better than then AMD's of equal speed. The 3000+ is a pos, its a joke! It doesnt even compare to the 2800+ in most tests.

AMD has limited manufacturing facilities. Thus they can't spit out cpus fast enough.
HAHA you made me laugh so hard I almost farted.

it's garanteed to equal (half/half in benches) or beat a P4, plus the AMD enthusiast market is better allowing for newer techs faster.
Guaranteed by whom? Cause man I could make some money on bets.

RooK=Total All Out AMD man Me= Mostly Intel but I have said to go AMD in the past but your situation doesn't warrant it and you are gonna be rich so go with the better.

Wrong, the Bartons now overclock comparable ghz, check it out.

What's wrong with AMD growing so fast they can't keep up with demand? :) Will soon be remidied.

Garanteed by benchmarks, seeing how it almost equals a P4 even with RDRAM.

Yes, I am an AMD fanboy... I prefer honest, affordable performance to money grubbing monopolist anyday. Please remember that Stinger yells Intel any chance he can, cept when money is an issue. Then hes FORCED to say AMD. :)

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Damn canadian dollars! Fixed it. BTW, you can get a lot of this cheaper Im sure but that is all from newegg there. $1484 in U.S. =$2178 IN Canadian. Now the CRT monitor is the pain in the butt. You can get those MUCH cheaper on deals at stores locally.

Yes, I am an AMD fanboy... I prefer honest, affordable performance to money grubbing monopolist anyday. Please remember that Stinger yells Intel any chance he can, cept when money is an issue. Then hes FORCED to say AMD
So true, just like with cars, I yell Pinto if money is tight then I go Porsche if not. RooK likes the Pinto ;) Edited by Stinger
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Pinto? Accidently said the wrong Ford car Stinger, you meant GT40! First and only car to come in 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the Le Mans 24hr race. 2200lbs. of lean mean muscle backed by 400 odd horsepower and even more torque. It was even raced on a 4 speed manual it had so much torque, but then were talking about computers, so never mind the Porsche bashing :)

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Stinger, you need to visit the Anandtech forums. People there are clocking their AMD CPU's an awful lot. 2100+ to 2700+ speeds. I've seen 2400+ close to 3000+ speeds IIRC.

I just grabbed this off the AT forums and is a Althon XP 2100+ CPU

Well, nobody replied, and this is where I'm at now:

FSB:163

RAM/FSB: Auto

CPU Multiplier: 13

Vram 2.6

Vcore auto

Vagp 1.5

Results:

CPU: 2129.9 Mhz

FSB: 163.8

RAM bus: 327.7

CPU full load: 53 C

NorthBridge(?): 49 C

System: 42 C

Vcore: about 1.58. Quite a bit of variation here.

Now that is OC'ed to a 2800+ T-bred CPU (or right close.)

Tho I did set it back I bumped my 2400+ up to the speed of a 2600+ with a 166mHz FSB and it ran really stable. Maybe once I get a different HSF (got a Volcaon 9 right now) I may bump it back up even more.

I have had one Intel CPU (Celeron) and this is my second AMD CPU (first was a Duron) and both of my AMD systems have been stable. I rarely had a crash with my AMD systems tho the Gateway (Celeron) liked to crash regularly.

Here are some more stats from AT:

My AnandTech System Rigs Stats

These are stats of the top choices by the users for their system rigs.

Total system rigs: 19825

CPU Stats

AMD: 11125

Intel: 8364

VIA/Cyrix: 17

IDT: 17

Video Card Stats

3Dfx: 345

ATI: 3277

Nvidia: 5557

Motherboard Stats

ABIT: 461

AOPEN: 186

ASUS: 4415

IWILL: 549

MSI: 3533

Tyan: 1684

You can make yoru deductions from this.

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Ok, if the bickering can stop, we can move along...

JTF-2, consider what RooK has posted concerning AMD products. Just bear with us, and we'll spec you a computer to be proud of. ;)

For HDD, I choose Maxtor, because they usually list for a bit cheaper than thier competitors, yet offer outstanding performance for the money.

As for a GFX card, you might want to look into a 9600PRO(when they're released) or even a 9700PRO. The prices will come down with ATI's new line of cards coming out.

Don't forget a formitable Power Supply Unit. I suggest at least 350Watts for a PSU. I am using Antec TruePower PSUs in both my computers, and I must say, they are extremely stable.

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