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Where is the COOP fun factor with GRAW?


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Note to GRIN,

COOP is not Team Domination.!!!

It seems there is a large part of the Die Hard Ghost Recon Classic fan base being left out in the cold.

In particular those Clans who script missions, script firefights, host dedicated servers, host tournaments etc. Their members are wondering what is happening in the future with GRAW.

This game, and the way it appears to be headed, is not a worthy successor to Ghost Recon Classic for the REAL Ghost Recon fans who arent into Run-N-Gun game play. Have you ever heard, "The way its Meant to be Played". Looking at the current state of GRAW, I think not.

My wish list for the June GRAW patch to support the COOP community.

1. Firefight mode for COOP.

2. Defend mode for COOP.

3. Mission Editing and scripting tools.

4. Dedicated Server files.

5. Expand COOP Team beyond 4 players.

Fixes,

1. Need no prone lean fixed.

2. Need the issue with the prone gun aiming fixed, (remove invisible floor).

Things I do like about the game,

1. Awesome maps. Now give me a reason to explore them and work with my friends as a team, I.E., Firefights & Missions that do not tie you to a small part of the map.

2. Great graphics. The no AA issue doesnt bother me one bit. I play at a high enough resolution that I dont even notice it.

3. Interactive environment, I like it.

As it stands now, the Likes do not offset the games deficincies in regards to why I play Ghost Recon. There is a lot that needs fixing to support the COOP community. I hope GRIN/UBI is up to the task.

Regards,

Sheldon/AlphaSquad

Edited by Sheldon_AS
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Damn straight Sheldon. I'm looking forward to an Alpha Squad SR 2006 CO-OP Tournament (GR:AW edition). For all of you who don't know, Alpha Squad hosts and makes the best GR1 CO-OP tournament missions around.

"The way its Meant to be Played"

silent_op

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Exactly Silent_OP, and thank you for your support.

This isnt a wishlist, although I did include a wish list as it related to the post in its entirety.

There is a lot of posting going on these forums as it relates to the Multi-Player side of GRAW, but in my eyes it leans heavily to the adversarial side of Multi-Player I.E., LMS, Domination etc. and the COOP side of Multi-Player, I.E., Ghosts vs AI, isnt in my opinion getting a lot of play on these forums. There are a lot of GRAW faithful who do not primarily play Adversarial game types.

This post was intended to give the COOP based members who enjoy a Classic tactical approach to GR a voice in what we would like to see for this game.

I play Ghost Recon Classic for the COOP based tactical approach the game was intended for. I dont enjoy the adversarial game types. (with the exception of an occasional Seige game with a great bunch of guys at AEG now and then).

Regards,

Sheldon/AlphaSquad

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agree with all of that, but theres already a Wishlist thread ;)

these are issues that need to be considered in there own right.

add the long winded saga of

play - crash - :wall: reboot - cant see server - :wall: cant join server - :wall: get in - get started :) - Mitchel dead - :wall: game over.

in all spent more time trying to get in a game than playing yesterday.

absolutly love the game, fix a couple of small issues and recognise the COOP fan base and I will be more than happy, stay as it is and :(

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I agree with Sheldom completely and I was upset when I got the game installed and saw that the makers of the game have NO IDEA about true COOP play. The only other thing I would add is the host dying and the game ending thing is a little ridicules and needs removed. My only hope for this game is that it CAN be fixed because if it remains a run and gun game then there will be another game by another company come out and knock this one way down. My friends and family are not buying now but might if these issues are fixed.

Some of you have never heard of The Medic Station or of me but many of you have in one way or another. I do speak for The Medic Station and we are not pleased at all. This game does have potential but the makers need to get off their collective butts and do whats right by us…..after all we (the pc gamers) did make this game (GR1) known, otherwise it would have been just another game collecting dust on the shelf, which is what it did with the run and gunners. They set it aside long ago for new games but we kept on going.

TY for letting me rant on about how displeased I am.

=MS=PFC Lancer

Edited by MS_PFCLancer
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i feel the same way, nice post sheldon, with with the added features of

-Siege TvT

-Host Abilities (kick/ban/change settings)

i also, love this game, and have every confidence GRIN will sort out the minor bugs with the game, as well as give us what we want :g_withgrin:

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while I see the benefit for the "team leader die, missino over" for a playtype, it needs to be a toggable option. and then it needs to be based on who is voted/chosen to be team leader. The host doesn't always have the skill or desire to be a good team leader, but those with the skills dont always have the good connections to host.

We need the classic coop modes back. And many want the respawn/take over AI option back as well. These are LONG missions and having 4 players is bad enough, but lock us down with no AI takeover and its worse...esp added to that team leader dies its all over nonsense.

played for hours on Friday night in coop and loved the whole experience. but some things need fixing.

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I don't have the game yet, but from what i played in the demo, i think you guys are right.

Coop should not have this "if leader die all is over"

The game player should also be able to choose who is the leader.

My connection make me a really good host, but i really dislike being the leaders of the squad, since i am more a Charge in the middle player.

It should be possible to skip introduction part of missions that can get repetitive, after playing mission over and over.

Respawn should be definatly included, this way we will be able to create harder maps without those map getting frustrating for dead player, since they would have second chance.

If should be possible to player up to 8 player (but from experience 6 is already great)

There should be random placed enemies in a Firefight mod.

Player should be able to play default game modified missions without have to go download outside of game (not sure if thats not already included). [GR] 1 was cool on that aspect, player could join at anytime without having to download anything.

Added maps and contends should be downloadable ingame, the same way HL 2 allow that.

All those feature could help create a dynamique and lively coop community, the same way the first ghost recon did.

In the first [GR], i played 10 time more to coop then adverserials, it was far more fun and socialy enjoyable.

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How does one respond to what we have as the new GR.

Im not sure if it's exactly what we had in mind, but then again we did'nt develop it. We all had hopes with the time some of the dev team spent in these forums. We had hopes they would listen to the community. And in some ways they did, in others they most certainly did not.

What has kept this game alive for as long as it has was the community of modders and scripters. Was this for the advisarial player ? No. At Alpha Squad we have held CO OP tournys for the last 3 years. Every year it is a much anticipated and played. We can never make enough room avail for all the teams that want to play. And thats with teams of 9.

With teams of 4 it is just not plausable.

We also have a public dedicated server which has plenty of players who love the CO OP side of the game. We even modded GR to allow us to get up to 18 playing a single mission, or FF 110. And we have a blast. No waiting endlesly for 9 to die and hope someone leaves so I can play.

Now while the game looks absolutly increadable, I do love the maps, weapons and tangos that don't do the conga line of death to your last position. The sound as well blows my mind.

But the CO OP is just plain lacking. Mitchel is dead game over. Well. Is this to say that an elite group of highly trained experts in their field cannot continue without one man? I certainly hope not. I could go into real world situations but that not necessary.

Now Im not going to go into all the little things as they have been mentioned many times before in other threads but it is quite clear that the CO OP community has been forgotten.

So I will leave it to the many increadable modders in the community to help solve these problems as Im not sure we will get it from the developer.

But man please please please someone find a way for us to get some of the REAL GR into this potentialy awsome game.

Edited by Creatch
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All I have to add to what has already been said is my support. If the makers of GRAW do not give th Co-Op community what it needs I am sure someone will step in to fill the void soon enough. As for me I do not intend to buy GRAW until it is ready for decent Co-Op play.

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Well Sheldon, Creatch, Robalo, DasLimpet, and I have been playing a fair bit of co-op GRAW over the past few days along with a few other regulars of the GR.net forums as well as regulars of the AlphaSquad puiblic co-op server. Sheldon and Creatch hit the high points on how I think we all feeel about this game. The potential seems to be outstanding, I just hope that the community will have tools and access to produce the kinds of co-op missions that will help make this incarnation of GR as long lasting and enjoyable as GR1 has been.

There are a number of misfeatures that I think limit the co-op potential -- 4 players, linearity, "your are leaving the mission area," and "Mitchel is dead." My hope is that these are all design choices that were made to expidite delivery of the game and improve what were probably seen as accessability issues. At very least I hope Grin/UBI can/will provide the modding community with access to tools that will enable us to overcome these obstacles. I know I started to take a quick look at the contents of the quick.bundle last night and I was encouraged to find what looked like a fairly rich scripting language used to build the missions. However I was not able to quickly identify any magic bit of code that would solve any of these problems quickly (although I a sure the linearity is not fundamental, and I think I saw hints at how to fix the 4 player stuff).

Anyway, if Grin is actually readin/listening, PLEASE do not forget about serious CO-OP play. If you do not understand what the "wackos" in this thread are talking about, then please get yourself a copy of TS2 and GR1 installed on a machine and stop by a serious co-op game (e.g. at AlphaSquad, Phoenix Soldiers, etc.) for an hour or so to see what we are talking about. If you really want a challenge, PM an AlphaSquad member or visit our forums at www.alphasquad.net and we will happily set you and anyone you can drag along up for drops on any/all of the SR2005 tourny missions.

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Anyway, if Grin is actually readin/listening, PLEASE do not forget about serious CO-OP play. If you do not understand what the "wackos" in this thread are talking about, then please get yourself a copy of TS2 and GR1 installed on a machine and stop by a serious co-op game (e.g. at AlphaSquad, Phoenix Soldiers, etc.) for an hour or so to see what we are talking about. If you really want a challenge, PM an AlphaSquad member or visit our forums at www.alphasquad.net and we will happily set you and anyone you can drag along up for drops on any/all of the SR2005 tourny missions.

GRIN, Bo all you have to do is PM me here at ghostrecon.net and I'll set the rest up. As I stated long ago, I would have no problem with doing this.

silent_op

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what would Ghost Recon be without a Stealth Recon?

just a note to the AS group: thanks for the missions. After years of modding and not playing much ourselves, once alot of us old modders retired, we got together in a "clan" so to speak and played private coop using mostly Alpha Squad missions. It reminded us why we spent all that time modding GR to begin with and helped us to fall back in love with it all over again. so thanks and I really hope to see more....GRAW or not.

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Id like to add my support as well. Run and Gun is much more fun in Counterstrike. Ghost Recon is a big boys game and should be treated that way.

P.S. As far as good co-op groups go Id like to add the Sheep to the list with PXS and AS. Not sure how the Sheeps Cave interacts with AS but PXS wouldnt be the same without their hard work! :sheep:

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At Alpha Squad we have held CO OP tournys for the last 3 years. Every year it is a much anticipated and played. We can never make enough room avail for all the teams that want to play. And thats with teams of 9.

With teams of 4 it is just not plausable.

We also have a public dedicated server which has plenty of players who love the CO OP side of the game. We even modded GR to allow us to get up to 18 playing a single mission, or FF 110. And we have a blast. No waiting endlesly for 9 to die and hope someone leaves so I can play.

I second (third, fourth, fifth, sixth, whatever, etc.) the motion. I don't even get to play this game, cause I'm on a Mac, but I to agree that it seems that the devs (or UBI) don't really know how hardcore some of us ARE about our COOP.

To expand on what Alpha Squad has done for our community, they have hosted COOP tourney's for three years. Everytime they fill ALL the slots for teams to play. That's around 30 teams of at least 9 players that are hardcore for COOP, and remember that's not even all the teams that want to play in their tourney's, there's just not enough room, time, or Alpha members to handle it.

I was thinking about buying a PC just to play this game (and a few other games that don't see the light of day on Mac), but like many others I'm gonna hold off till I actually see the potential of it being as immersive as Ghost Recon Classic provides, and right now I just don't see it.

I too would like to see the current GR:AW motto change from " The only way you can play it" to "The way its Meant to be Played".

BTW - I agree with pretty much everyone (in this thread) likes and dislikes. There are some major issues that need to be looked at if they want us to move on from the Original.

I also recommend the devs try a game of Ghost Recon Classic on Alpha Squads server and see what we are talking about.

Open our eyes, and the rest will follow. :whistle:

Edited by Vir2L
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Thanks to all for your support on this thread, I see a lot of familiar names to us at Alpha Squad posting here and showing support.

Hopefully we can keep this thread alive and show the powers that be that there is a strong Tacticall minded COOP community alive and well who are willing to make this game what it is meant to be given the proper tools and game playability.

Regards,

Sheldon/AlphaSquad

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I totally agree with the requested feature-adds to the co-op aspect. However, I think the tone of a few posts in this thread from a few hardcore fans, while passionate, are also a bit overzealous and taken the wrong way, could seem ungrateful and threatening to GRIN.

Now of course, I don't mean to burst in here on my third forum post and indirectly call a bunch of you inconsiderate. :unsure: I'm just a moderate GR fan who's had a lot of fun playing the original co-op modes at small LAN parties I've setup in the past. I've never really interacted with the GR community but I can tell it seems tight-knit, established and dedicated.

I think if the message gets directed to the dev team in a more positive manner and on a more realistic timeline it'll go a much longer way. There's no feasible way to get all the requests, reasonable or otherwise, in by the June patch unless they have been working on them previously and just disabled them for ship time due to insufficient testing.

Anyways, here's another post hoping the original/more interesting/varied co-op modes get in soon. :yes:

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There have been many other threads that have come off far more hostile.

We are only telling them how we feel. Nothing more, nothing less.

Take it for what it is.

It's been stated many times... we like the look of GR:AW, but some of the core elements that made Ghost Recon what it was were simply either overlooked or forgotten.

We would like to voice our opinions on what we think was overlooked.

No harm, no foul.

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Ditto that Vir2L....

I think we are so passionate about this because we really do see a huge ammount of potential in what Grin has delivered so far. GRAW really is a quite stunning game to play. The mechanics are for the most part quite sound and true to the GR name -- and I am confident that the important issues that remain (listed in many other threads) will get worked out soon.

All you hear people saying here is that they want the tools and opportunities to continue the style of co-op play that has kept many hundreds of GR fans playing for as long as they have. The "upset" you may hear comes from these long term co-opplayers recognizing the potential in GRAW and being a bit suprised at how the inital set of co-op and single player missions were delivered.

I know when I go back and look at some of the missions that were delivered with the original release of GR and compare them with what is popular among the co-op players today, there is little/no comparison. I expect the same will be true with GRAW. We just want to be sure that the hard working and obviously inovative folks at Grin understand the potential here and take a look at what the current state of the art is in terms of co-op scripting and play.

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