Most everyone in this forum should be ashamed

[Lead Salad]

*chuckles*

Naw, came up with that one on my own. Too much reading I've been doing lately for schoolwork, makes me jumble words. Thanks for the compliments, though.

[Phlookian]

I think it's time to take the long view don't you (as GR fans you should be used to being sneaky)

we all know what the political realities of the situation are.

Imagine if you will what Ubi are thinking (and yes, that really does matter)

Time to tie it off maybe, time to move onto the next franchise (this one appears to have encountered some opposition.......)

Do you really think that all this bitching really achieves anything?

Whatdya think?

[Xone]

Honestly right now I really like GR:AW for the PC. I have played GR:AW for the XBOX and the 360. When GR:AW was supposed to come out last month I was very excited but then it was a big let down to know I had to wait another month. So I waited, instead of getting GR:AW I bought all the rest of the next gen games like FEAR, Oblivion, COD2, BF2, and etc. I was so excited to play the demo of GRAW. At first it felt just like another let down, it was like GRIN released a barebones version similar to that of the XBOX verson, not with the complexity of the 360 version. It really just feels too much like any other shooter. They didnt even implement the CROSSCOM HUD like in the 360. I saw this amazing game out for the 360 but I couldnt have it because I dont own a 360 so I was really waiting for the PC version to blow the socks off of everyone, yet it is like it was released pre-maturely.

I have several suggestions that would make me very happy. Most of the things are just features the original GR had that really made GR what is was and could make GR:AW what we all wanted. Things like this would be:

1. Cool vision modes like the one on the official GR:AW website (dayvision)

2. 3rd person view (behind the shoulder)

3. I want the original GR:AW HUD like the 360

Of course there are alot of bugs that need the attention more.

[KRP 56]

Much ado about nothing as people will complain about anything and everything at the drop of a hat. The final judgement will come at the cash register and although GRAW isn't all I wanted it to be it's still a pretty cool game and GRIN interacting with members here was way cool. With the exception of a few jerks everthing has looked pretty civil to me. Now the GR2 mess was another story as even I was upset about that crap.

[maltgoblin]

I think constructive criticism is a must, but it definitely needs to be made in a polite manner.. after all, it's how things will improve.. I really think there are two types of people who play this game.. 1) the hardcore GR players who have played 4-5 years.. 2) the player who plays a lot of video games and is satisfied with visual effects above all else.

I am one of the hardcore GR fans who has been waiting for this game for a long time.. I thought surely they couldn't possibly screw this game up because there was only one main thing they had to keep : the controls of the original GR. I think this is what set GR apart from all other games. It felt like you were the character on the screen.. it was that realistic.. But alas, something went wrong, I don't have this feeling with the new GR Advanced. Yes, the visuals are better, but that is secondary to me. I can live without them. But as far as the controls, I don't see them being any better than any other game out there. Even SWAT 4 has more GR type movement to it than Advanced Warfighter. I say this as politely as I can, I hope there are some patches that can fix this. If they can fix this one thing and bring back the fluidity of the movements of the original GR, this will be a kick butt game.. Maybe that's a big IF .. i dunno.

[NuclearDruid]

I think constructive criticism is a must, but it definitely needs to be made in a polite manner.. after all, it's how things will improve.. I really think there are two types of people who play this game.. 1) the hardcore GR players who have played 4-5 years.. 2) the player who plays a lot of video games and is satisfied with visual effects above all else.

I am one of the hardcore GR fans who has been waiting for this game for a long time.. I thought surely they couldn't possibly screw this game up because there was only one main thing they had to keep : the controls of the original GR.  I think this is what set GR apart from all other games. It felt like you were the character on the screen.. it was that realistic.. But alas, something went wrong, I don't have this feeling with the new GR Advanced. Yes, the visuals are better, but that is secondary to me. I can live without them. But as far as the controls, I don't see them being any better than any other game out there. Even SWAT 4 has more GR type movement to it than Advanced Warfighter. I say this as politely as I can, I hope there are some patches that can fix this. If they can fix this one thing and bring back the fluidity of the movements of the original GR, this will be a kick butt game.. Maybe that's a big IF .. i dunno.

←

Halo 1 is better than Halo 2

Half-Life 1 is better than Half-Life 2

I enjoy this game to death. A: The gameplay owns anything I have ever played. When I got ghost recon 1.. I hated it, it felt to "blocked". This feels a lot more fluid.

CHANGE IS GOOD.

[calius]

All i want to know is ... whens the demo out?

[maltgoblin]

Halo 1 is better than Halo 2

Half-Life 1 is better than Half-Life 2

I enjoy this game to death. A: The gameplay owns anything I have ever played. When I got ghost recon 1.. I hated it, it felt to "blocked". This feels a lot more fluid.

CHANGE IS GOOD

I don't even think long time GR players who LIKE Advance Warfighter would say it's more fluid.. Advanced Warfighter seems very sluggish. I still have hopes for a fix all patch though

And yes, change is good if you are improving graphics. But if something isn't broke don't change it. Good graphics alone will attract the part-time GR players who play Halo, BF, and every other game. The people who will stick with this game after a year and not move on to something else will be the people who think it is different from every other game out there-- like loyal GR fans do now.

Edited May 3, 2006 by maltgoblin

[Sup]

Halo 1 is better than Halo 2

Half-Life 1 is better than Half-Life 2

I enjoy this game to death. A: The gameplay owns anything I have ever played. When I got ghost recon 1.. I hated it, it felt to "blocked". This feels a lot more fluid.

CHANGE IS GOOD

I don't even think long time GR players who LIKE Advance Warfighter would say it's more fluid..

←

Wrong. The only thing I was really amazed by was it's fluidity.

[maltgoblin]

Fluidity as in??? You can't move as fast in any capacity. Please explain and maybe i will go compare once again on the demo.. I know getting off the ground and up and back down again is very slow. Peeks aren't as controlled. I guess I just don't see it. Where is the fluidity? This is the biggest complaint I have read from other GR players on different forums-- if there is any complaint at all it is that it is too slow.

[babydave]

the games encouraging though, the foundations are there and so is the gameplay, thats the 2 major things, they couldnt be fixed if they were wrong.

the stuff i see as wrong can be fixed, graphics and performance issues, dedi files, MP modes/maps, mouse/keyboard lag

i think grin are great for even posting on here BUT as was said praise should be earnt and im sure they will earn it over the coming weeks/months. this game isnt perfect yet but what game is on release (published by ubi anyway )

[LT.INSTG8R]

Fluidity as in??? You can't move as fast in any capacity. Please explain and maybe i will go compare once again on the demo.. I know getting off the ground and up and back down again is very slow.  Peeks aren't as controlled. I guess I just don't see it. Where is the fluidity? This is the biggest complaint I have read from other GR players on different forums-- if there is any complaint at all it is that it is too slow.

←

I dont know, I dont really miss the GR1's "Moving at 30Mph on Rollerskates" was one of the reasons I switched over to RvS when it came out, the movements felt more real. I will agree that some of the stance changes are a bit clunky and I have issues with running dry on ammo and not being able to run to another cover point and reload at the same time(but then in GR1 you had to stop moving to reload as well).

I do hope some of the movements get cleaned up a bit like them not moving exactly when you press them(running, crouch from stop running is slow sometimes when you wanna stop running and crouch and not slide etc) those things could all be easily tweaked so by no means gamebreakers

[H|lander]

the stuff i see as wrong can be fixed, graphics and performance issues, dedi files, MP modes/maps, mouse/keyboard lag

maybe you missed this m8:

ATI's 'Chuck' on HDR with AA in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter

When the demo of Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter for the PC became available last week, one of the first and loudest complaints to come out of our forums was that the game didn't allow for the use of anti-aliasing in any shape or form, leaving users with jaggies galore wherever they cared to look in the game.

As the game utilises High Dynamic Range rendering, it was already clear that there was no chance of NVIDIA boards supporting anti-aliasing in this title, but what of ATI? Thoughts immediately turned to recent developments with Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and ATI's special driver that allowed for High Dynamic Range and anti-aliasing to be used in this title. The question on everybodies lips was - Could ATI pull off the same trick in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter?

Of course, there is only one man at ATI to whom this question can be posed - The mysterious driver developer known only as 'Chuck'. So, over the past few days we set out to communicate with this international man of mystery - 'X's were taped to windows, cryptic messages were left in the classified sections of newspapers, boxes of chocolate were squirreled into Terry Makedon's bedroom late at night while he showered. And finally, we had it - An official response from ATI's 'Chuck' regarding the possibility of anti-aliasing being enabled in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter.

What did he have to say? Here's the quote, directly from the man himself, in full:

The rendering path in G.R.A.W is very different from most games in that it appears to make extensive use of multiple render targets (MRTs). (This is where one draw operation can write different values to different surfaces.)

The DX9 spec doesn't allow multi-sample AA when using MRTs and our hardware requires that all of the destination surfaces either have AA or not. This means that in order to get AA in G.R.A.W. we'd need to have lots of AA surfaces and perform a ton of AA resolves. The end result would be slow and require much more texture memory. It's not 100% impossible, and I'm not giving up on the possibility, but there is no playable solution right now.

So, there you have it - There is still a chance of being able to use anti-aliasing in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter on ATI hardware, but seemingly only a very slim one. Our assumption was that the use of deferred shading for the game's lighting technique was the prime suspect, but it seems from ATI's own analysis is that it's the use of multiple render targets that cause the issue here.

I'd like to thank 'Chuck' for his time and thoughts on this issue - But I can't, because he's returned to his secret underground lair in a parallel dimension. So, instead, I'd like to thank Terry Makedon for his time and efforts, and hopefully he can pass our gratitude on to 'Chuck' via Morse Code. Or something.

source: http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php...id=59&Itemid=29

Edited May 4, 2006 by H|lander

[LT.INSTG8R]

I know its kinda scary they would choose this form of lighting and make us guinea pigs with it. I REALLY hope they will reconsider and add another lighting path to the engine(preferrably Bloom, tho not as effective we can all use it)

[Hurbold]

I for one, would just like to know why no one brought the lack of AA to our attention.

It really is another in a long line of dishonesties by this company. I find it hard to believe that they are so inane as to think that no AA is an afterthought. Surely they (GRIN/UBI) had full awareness of the way this would make some people feel about their title?

I've spent hundreds of hours playing the original GR in my time (still play it occassionally), and I'm still deliberating on whether or not I should give this title any attention.

It is simply unacceptable to create a game devoid of a feature so many of us consider a necessity, but it is more difficult to overlook not even raising the issue, waiting for it to be revealed in the demo (after tons of preorders). That's the hardest part for me to swallow. This kind of philosophy is one I really don't appreciate promoting.

Has there been an official response? It would surprise me if there has, at least it would be contradictory to most everything I've seen over the last several months.

Congratulations on some fine gameplay, some nice textures, and some incredible sound effects. Shame on those involved for not providing us with truthful info before the fact (or even after).

Hurbold

[Danish1705]

I think that grin done a good job with GrAw. Even though i havent bought it yet cause i cant play it with my 5900xt i know and thats a fact (i've tested the demo in a friends pc) that gameplay - teamplay is good enough to make me love that game and abandon americas army for a while.

The big problem and in my opinion the cause of all that whining is that the game hase so advanced features that the average player cant taste in their rig. Its so advanced that i will have to wait till november-dicember to play it cause i think giving 450-600 euros just to play decently a game its a waste of money.

Two weeks ago fifteen person in my team wanted to get serious with this game (clanwars etc), but today only two and this is dissapointing.

Let me clarify that i respect GRIN's creative work, their dedication to the gr community (big thx) and the fact that they drop SF made me very happy but seeing everything in black in my poor nvidia (except the colour of the sky) made me sad.

Grin really thx for your strong efforts, cy soon 

←

I agree with you. Game developer (overall not just GRIN) should take note that most of the pcgamer like me cannot afford to spend money to buy PC peripheral everytime new game that i like to buy is out on the shelves. I have to throw away ( not really thrown exactly my old vid card GF FX5500 256 & GF4 Ti 420 128 just to play GRAW. This card somehow is okay to play older games even though it cannot support lots of new games. I have to spend RM (Ringgit Malaysia)630 just to buy a minimum spec vid card just to be able to play the game (currently im using GF NX6600GT). <-- this also i guess will phase out not too long from now.

All new games release should at least can support older vid card (not to old). Game is actually about fun and entertainment, what it is for if you cant enjoy it at your leisure time and have to think everyday that you have to spend a lot of money just to play the game.

Anyway i have played the demo and it is GREAT!! its enjoyable and fun and i cant wait for my Full GRAW to arrive at my home next week!!!

Keep up the good work GRIN, our lives is not so cheerful without you the game developer creativity in making an enjoyable game!!!

p/s: im also AAO fan, i always play Bridge SE most of the time!! HOOAH!!!

---danish

[Dimz]

if you try puttin your Anistropic Filtering on 16x , it should reduce the aliasing . i can still notice it , because i was looking for it ... ie. in the chopper at the SAW PARA , but other than that it pretty much ditched the jaggies .

[Dimz]

...

Edited May 4, 2006 by Dimz

[ruggbutt]

I'm not about to pay homage to a company simply because they designed (and got paid for) a game under the Ghost Recon name. The homage will come later when it has been earned.

←

[Papa6]

Geez, before.. nevermind.

[Stalker_Zero]

the stuff i see as wrong can be fixed, graphics and performance issues, dedi files, MP modes/maps, mouse/keyboard lag

maybe you missed this m8:

ATI's 'Chuck' on HDR with AA in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter

When the demo of Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter for the PC became available last week, one of the first and loudest complaints to come out of our forums was that the game didn't allow for the use of anti-aliasing in any shape or form, leaving users with jaggies galore wherever they cared to look in the game.

As the game utilises High Dynamic Range rendering, it was already clear that there was no chance of NVIDIA boards supporting anti-aliasing in this title, but what of ATI? Thoughts immediately turned to recent developments with Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, and ATI's special driver that allowed for High Dynamic Range and anti-aliasing to be used in this title. The question on everybodies lips was - Could ATI pull off the same trick in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter?

Of course, there is only one man at ATI to whom this question can be posed - The mysterious driver developer known only as 'Chuck'. So, over the past few days we set out to communicate with this international man of mystery - 'X's were taped to windows, cryptic messages were left in the classified sections of newspapers, boxes of chocolate were squirreled into Terry Makedon's bedroom late at night while he showered. And finally, we had it - An official response from ATI's 'Chuck' regarding the possibility of anti-aliasing being enabled in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter.

What did he have to say? Here's the quote, directly from the man himself, in full:

The rendering path in G.R.A.W is very different from most games in that it appears to make extensive use of multiple render targets (MRTs). (This is where one draw operation can write different values to different surfaces.)

The DX9 spec doesn't allow multi-sample AA when using MRTs and our hardware requires that all of the destination surfaces either have AA or not. This means that in order to get AA in G.R.A.W. we'd need to have lots of AA surfaces and perform a ton of AA resolves. The end result would be slow and require much more texture memory. It's not 100% impossible, and I'm not giving up on the possibility, but there is no playable solution right now.

So, there you have it - There is still a chance of being able to use anti-aliasing in Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter on ATI hardware, but seemingly only a very slim one. Our assumption was that the use of deferred shading for the game's lighting technique was the prime suspect, but it seems from ATI's own analysis is that it's the use of multiple render targets that cause the issue here.

I'd like to thank 'Chuck' for his time and thoughts on this issue - But I can't, because he's returned to his secret underground lair in a parallel dimension. So, instead, I'd like to thank Terry Makedon for his time and efforts, and hopefully he can pass our gratitude on to 'Chuck' via Morse Code. Or something.

source: http://www.elitebastards.com/cms/index.php...id=59&Itemid=29

←

Silly question: why was graw made like this then?

[Stalker_Zero]

if you try puttin your Anistropic Filtering on 16x , it should reduce the aliasing . i can still notice it , because i was looking for it ... ie. in the chopper at the SAW PARA , but other than that it pretty much ditched the jaggies .

←

oh heck 16x you say? Oh well then problem solved! Lemme go warm up my rig that has 64 gigs of ram 10 terabyte harddrive and 5 GB of ram video card.

I can't even run graw on 8x without lag man.

[Dimz]

if you try puttin your Anistropic Filtering on 16x , it should reduce the aliasing . i can still notice it , because i was looking for it ... ie. in the chopper at the SAW PARA , but other than that it pretty much ditched the jaggies .

←

oh heck 16x you say? Oh well then problem solved! Lemme go warm up my rig that has 64 gigs of ram 10 terabyte harddrive and 5 GB of ram video card.

I can't even run graw on 8x without lag man.

←

i got a p4 2.6 Ghz , 1024 RAM , and an ATi x850XT Pro 256 mb AGP 8x ... aint like i robbed Bill Gates and got a ######in powerhouse here man .

[Sup]

I'm not about to pay homage to a company simply because they designed (and got paid for) a game under the Ghost Recon name. The homage will come later when it has been earned.

←

←

I'm not asking for homage, I'm asking for a little bit of respect and decency.

[ZJJ]

Sigh, another thread that turned into moaning about AA.

Can you guys stick to one thread about it, please?