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Yup, it shipped with the game, just like NimEd shipped with LD recently (that wasn't mentioned on the cover either). Red Storm has a good track record of including the editor with their games. :thumbsup:

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I'm sure there will be moddingtools over time.

GRIN was working on getting a public version ready and I doubt that all that work will go to waste.

I've got confidence in the release.

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OK guy's where did the GR1 Modding tools come from??

Who were the people that spent they OWN private time to put together exporting tools,tutorials etc for the community to enable them to mod and export 3d models into GR.

If you haven't already guessed by now it was the some of the Developers of GR1.

It was unofficial in that they didn't get paid for it.

Now your expecting the same from GRIN developers.

Why should they spend their time giving you Mod Tools for a game You say is Crap and needs improving to suit your personal requirments.

Are YOU going to PAY them??

Igor was released with GR1, you may get an editor released for GRAW, but that's up to UBI.

Anything else is a gift, from the developers (with approval from UBI).

That doesn't mean try and sway them with false opinions or the like, but maybe if people were a little more thoughtful in their postings,you might make them feel their work is worthy, and then they may feel inspired to continue their work and let you have the things you want.

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OK guy's where did the GR1 Modding tools come from??

Who were the people that spent they OWN private time to put together exporting tools,tutorials etc for the community to enable them to mod and export 3d models into GR.

If you haven't already guessed by now it was the some of the Developers of GR1.

It was unofficial in that they didn't get paid for it.

Now your expecting the same from GRIN developers.

Why should they spend their time giving you Mod Tools for a game You say is Crap and needs improving to suit your personal requirments.

Are YOU going to PAY them??

Igor was released with GR1, you may get an editor released for GRAW, but that's up to UBI.

Anything else is a gift, from the developers (with approval from UBI).

That doesn't mean try and sway them with false opinions or the like, but maybe if people were a little more thoughtful in their postings,you might make them feel their work is worthy, and then they may feel inspired to continue their work and let you have the things you want.

First off I never said the game was "crap". It has tons of potential and lots of good things and lots of big obvious missing things. If Red Storm did what you said for "free", wow thank you Red Storm. :thumbsup:

If GRIN needs money to release a good modding tool (plus all of the patches needed to get GR:AW up to "A+" from "C"), then fine by me. I'd pay another $20 -$30. I don't expect GRIN to work for free. But I know most others would feel very different about spending more money.

silent_op

Edited by silent_op
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Well here we are in the dark again. We use to have some frequent visits from GRIN, Bo in particular. I'm sure if Bo were still making regular rounds here, he would tell us something about the modding tools and patches. Things were once so good here, we had inside information from the CEO of GRIN. I'm still amazed by that. Bo told us stuff that the magazines (print and online) didn't know.

Now all we can really do is just wait and see what comes our way. It didn't have to be this way at all. To top it off we have to deal with UBI reports, which are extremely hard to trust.

You all know who you are...

Thank you, all of you who helped to ###### away our only true inside inside information man. :nono::nono::nono: For GR:AW's sake, don't ###### away our last GRIN contact, GRiN_desmond22.

silent_op

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Well here we are in the dark again.

Is there a map editor and an SDK?

A map editor is already on the way but no SDK is planned at the moment.

And suddenly there is light :)

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Well here we are in the dark again.

Is there a map editor and an SDK?

A map editor is already on the way but no SDK is planned at the moment.

And suddenly there is light :)

anyone think they will make a SDK at all, i mean we sorta are getting more than PC gamers get anymore anyway, what are the chances we will get all the things we used to get in the good old days. im being slightly sarcastic but it doesnt seem likely that we will get much after a map editor. and this saddens me, after all this is a major item for a games longevity. but still GRIN has done a great job

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Well here we are in the dark again. We use to have some frequent visits from GRIN, Bo in particular. I'm sure if Bo were still making regular rounds here, he would tell us something about the modding tools and patches. Things were once so good here, we had inside information from the CEO of GRIN. I'm still amazed by that. Bo told us stuff that the magazines (print and online) didn't know.

Now all we can really do is just wait and see what comes our way. It didn't have to be this way at all. To top it off we have to deal with UBI reports, which are extremely hard to trust.

You all know who you are...

Thank you, all of you who helped to ###### away our only true inside inside information man.  :nono:  :nono:  :nono: For GR:AW's sake, don't ###### away our last GRIN contact, GRiN_desmond22.

silent_op

as far as i know the reason they haven't been on lately is because they're on vacation in mexico..

edit: nonetheless, some people still need to be more appreciative of their dedication to this community.

Edited by zwitherow
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Remember that in ye olde GR1 we got IGOR after a couple of patches

IGOR came on the disk.

D'oh! You're right. My selective memory playing tricks on me... It wasn't until after the first couple of patches that I started playing with it, once I realised we could open the campaign missions ins IGOR and take a look around.

Tim

P.S. I have faith in GRIN to throw us a bone, provided we don't hack them off any more. :o=:nono:

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GRAW is unmoddable as of now becuase all the content is locked in a bundled package, that cannot be opened.

Looking at the filesizes and filesystem of the demo, it's clear that GRIN chose to "pack it all together" in one bundle.

Every piece of software can be reverse-engineered, IF you find a coder that has the proper knowledge and is willing to invest the time.

It's a hasstle, but it's not impossible.

When the game is loading it is unpacking itself for most of the part. So the code to reverse-engineer it is there.

It's possible the code is unpacked realtime ofcourse, but that would put an extra load on the CPU, which I doubt as they need every clockcycle they can get for running the game itself.

GRIN probably crypted the code aswell but I doubt they used a strong key as they simply didn't crypt the sound either (was a simple .bank to .wav rename).

If we could just get that willing coder..... :unsure:

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The thing of it is deleyt, for the amount of time and effort it would take to reverse engineer a game like GRAW and it's proprietary file formats, a decent programmer could have a good start on an independent game engine that's better then GRAW's, or get a huge head start and use one of the thousands of open source game engines to build an open source tactical realism game/platform that wouldn't have all the legal and commercial issues and challenges hanging over it that a game like GRAW would if hacked.

Considering: the size of the tactical realism audience, the absolutely incredible Mod Talent that build state of the art mods on a technically limited and shrinking number tactcaial realism game platforms -- it's not hard to imagine such a project becoming a sort of 'Linux of tactical realism' and really opening the door to literally everything tactical realism Fans have wanted for so long, probably aren't going to get from a commercial developer/publisher, and can't mod/create on the current commercially constrained engines.

It's not hard to imagine a popular, Fan and Mod Talent rewarding scenario where everything can be updated; no resources, art assets, time or effort are ever lost or wasted; no time is lost or wated waiting on a third commercial party or promises, everything that is an object of frustration or disappointment is open to change and Fan effort, and the only limits are desire and motivation...

:wub:

Edited by Waika
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GRAW has too much going against it. An SDK is just a shot in the foot for the Dev team. Without it they will have lowered the games life expectancy by half. It's the sad truth that an online game without an SDK just doesn't last long anymore.

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well, the idea to have modders develop has been tried before. you end up finding out that ideas are to diverse and modders are like artists...they want to create in their own way and often dont like taking direction from a leadership structure...which is needed in a group environment. In the end it just doesn't work out well. DYNACOMP was the perfect example. awesome group of people working to create something revolutionary...but just couldn't work together in the right ways to get it done.

Give it a few months...it took GR1 a while to get up to speed...and many of us cheated at the start with the ability to use some of Rogue Spears plugins and such.

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"Just doesn't work out well?"

How about Counter-Strike? What about Red Orchestra? Hey, how about over 1,700 first person shooters on original and free engines? If it "just doesn't work out well" how did these folks manage? And how much more effort do you imagine making a total conversion is from actually creating a game on an open engine? And then there are games that are helluva lot more complex to develop then FPS games that have been pulled off for fun and for free -- pretty amazing for something that "just doesn't work"...

It's just a matter of no one has gone the extra mile with a tactical realism themed game on an open engine yet, sooner or later some group of guys that work well together (like so many others) will pull it off... Till then -- it's BAU...

:whistle:

Edited by Waika
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ok, let me rephrase. When you take a group of modders who are used to being their own boss and creating content to their specifications....they really don't work well with others who are exactly the same. to many bulls ramming heads. And if you organize the structure into a heirarchy so 1 or 2 make the final choice and its not what some like, they are to immature to take it in stride and walk off to do a mod all alone, like they are used to.

so yes, it can be done, but you have to have the right set of people working together who can leave their egos and pride and reps at the door...and thats the just about impossible part.

and some have already done it...and they were snagged up by corporate types and $$$ got involved and like everywhere else, they become someones puppets who's interest isn't a good game, its how much more can we make if we just compromise this feature or that feature.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for it, but I'm not holding my breath.

Edited by DonMiguel
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Well I have to 'agree to disagree'; one look at ModDB tells me there are more folks making balls-to-the-walls total conversions and scratch FPS game then making mini-mods with new pants, shoes and umbrellas.

My hunch is the only reason we have not seen more successful full blown balls-to-the-walls total conversion or scratch tactical realism projects, yet, is because it's one of the toughest genres of games to develop.

Think about it, any other game the only standards and constraints are time and what you feel like making -- in the case of a serious tactical realism shooter there are all those constraints but the standard you compare your work against is objective and real i.e. reality and scale, not to mention satisfying an audience that is seriously critical about how you satisfy that standard and scale your design...

I do agree completely however and I too have "...my fingers crossed...but I'm not holding my breath."... The GRINs seem like a bunch of pretty nice Fellers.

:o

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The thing of it is deleyt, for the amount of time and effort it would take to reverse engineer a game like GRAW and it's proprietary file formats, a decent programmer could have a good start on an independent game engine that's better then GRAW's, or get a huge head start and use one of the thousands of open source game engines

I'm not implying that the entire gamecode has to be reverse-engineered.

Getting out the file-formats and filesystem would be enough for the time being.

It's gotta start somewhere.

Nemon has already done some amazing reversing, so there are people willing to invest the time and effort.

A modder mostly doesn't want to be part of an open source project.

He just wants to mod his personal favorite game.

At least, that's for me.

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