Sgt.Crocodile 0 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I'd like a word from our weapon experts on wich one of these babes is more indicated for CQB scenarios. Both are 12 gauge shotguns with full auto option. How controllable are these weapons when firing in FA mode? USAS-12 this gun is from raven shield. Do we have one for GR? Pancor Jackhammer Quote Link to post Share on other sites
WytchDokta 6 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 The USAS-12 was also in SoF2. And the Jackhammer was in Max Payne.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
mob 0 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 While the jackhammer is shorter, a drum magazine in a bullpup design looks like it could be annoying when held in strange positions. Also, reloading would be trickier. I'd have to choose the usas; more proven, probably more controllable, and definitely quicker reloads with its conventional box magazines. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
ogre_h 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The Jackhammer never made it past prototyping. It never went into production. So in real life your choices will be the USAS 12, SPAS 15 or the Russian Saiga if you want a box fed auto-shotgun. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zantar45 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 without a doubt I would take a variant of the Russian Saiga, its a Saiga that fires .410 shells and has 45-60 shells in one mag and its full auto. The shells maybe small and less lethal, but for CQB imagine the spray from one of these babies. Of course I would be satisfied to use the C.A.W.S. made by HK/Winchester/Olin if it were ever made after the prototype was cut from production. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tollen 0 Posted March 27, 2003 Share Posted March 27, 2003 The problem with the H&K C.A.W.S. was that it was deemed "to lethal". Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Crocodile 0 Posted March 29, 2003 Author Share Posted March 29, 2003 Of course I would be satisfied to use the C.A.W.S. made by HK/Winchester/Olin if it were ever made after the prototype was cut from production . Its a nice gun........looks like a CQB G11 cousin. Same type of sight. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcinko 1 Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 Caseless rounds... whats the point? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Crocodile 0 Posted March 29, 2003 Author Share Posted March 29, 2003 I dont know. ..........maybe the rate of fire makes the compensation. I read the G11 fires 2000 rounds per minute and i also read that lots of people dont like those caseless 4.73 mm rounds. Why? Whats the deal with it? Lack of punch? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Marcinko 1 Posted March 29, 2003 Share Posted March 29, 2003 I know tha Piccolo would know . Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zantar45 0 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 Sgt.Crocodile Posted on Mar 29 2003, 16:46 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I dont know. ..........maybe the rate of fire makes the compensation. I read the G11 fires 2000 rounds per minute and i also read that lots of people dont like those caseless 4.73 mm rounds. Why? Whats the deal with it? Lack of punch? heres what HKPro.com had to say While the development of the rifle system was taking place, the development of a new and entirely different cartridge was also under development. With the determination that the 'salvo' approach was the best for improving troop hit probability, the engineers believed that the best way to achieve higher hit ratios was to develop a rifle that would have a high enough cyclic rate that the rounds would be downrange before the rifle recoiled on the shoulder of the shooter. To achieve this rate of fire would only be possible with caseless ammunition. With caseless, extraction and ejection would be eliminated from the firing sequence, and the mechanism would then be able to operate much faster. The engineers believed that a burst rate of fire in excess of 2000 rounds per minute would be necessary to achieve this desired performance. heres a weapon comparison now the reason for its demise Suffice it to say that a number of factors caused the demise of the G11. The reason most often given is the reunification of Germany, and the attendant lack of desire for the West German government to purchase this new rifle at this uncertain time. Some say it never worked right. No matter what, the G11 represents what the collective minds of a small group of engineers are capable of. It seems to foretell the future of small arms design, which with but a few improvements lately has reached a creative plateau. Could this be the future of small arms? Could caseless become commonplace? Caseless ammunition in the Voere sporting rifle is already a reality and available for the consumer. Or is the G11 doomed to be one of the late, great 'almost' technologies that will be replaced by the amplified light and LASER weapons now being developed? pic of ammo chambering left is caseless, right is cased Good bye G11, we hardly knew ye. *even though the gun was made almost 2 decades ago* Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Crocodile 0 Posted April 5, 2003 Author Share Posted April 5, 2003 Thats a shame.......it could be an oustanding rifle.... Well.....in GR its very acurate, has a great zoom and have one of the most awesome sound among all mods. This one is from HX4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tollen 0 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 That´s the problem: It wasn´t very accurate, and it´s ergonomicaly unsound! Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zantar45 0 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 I love how they were going to make a machine gun model of it. The back part of the gun had a hinge, and you open it and put in a huge block of about 300 rounds. lemme find a pic...... block of ammo how the gun looks opening up how to load it pic of the gun *note*nothing ever came of this, only prototypes were made,and the gun never made it to testing, also it was said the effective range of the gun was up to at least 600 meters. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sgt.Crocodile 0 Posted April 9, 2003 Author Share Posted April 9, 2003 @ Zantar: the pics you posted shows the G11 LMG version and i have to agree....what a piece of *****, but.... In the assault rifle version, the mag is loaded above the barrel like the FN P-90 P90 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Zantar45 0 Posted April 9, 2003 Share Posted April 9, 2003 Sgt.Crocodile Posted on Apr 9 2003, 16:45 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- @ Zantar: the pics you posted shows the G11 LMG version and i have to agree....what a piece of *****, but.... In the assault rifle version, the mag is loaded above the barrel like the FN P-90 Uhh....yes I know its loaded at the top, what are you talkng about? I dont think I said anything about it being the G11, its the LMG11, and I also said The back part of the gun had a hinge, and you open it and put in a huge block of about 300 rounds Can you please clarify,I must have missed something? Also, the LMG11 weighted 5kgs fully loaded and had a 600 round per minute firing rate. Of course the abilties of the gun cannot be truelt confirmed since this is all speculation since the gun was never made into a working model. BTW,is it possible for someone to make a C.A.W.S in a mod, of course it would cause major lag when you fire it full auto. Kinda like the mini guns in mods that empty over 600 bullets in 2.5 seconds. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Viper 0 Posted April 11, 2003 Share Posted April 11, 2003 the problem with comparing the G11 and P90 are that the G11's mags are taken out in a forward direction, paralell to the barrel (a rather difficult maneuver) while the P90's mags are taken out up and back in a much simpler motion. the idea of mounting a mag above the barrel and at right angles is the same though, and both guns achieve a high ammo capacity CLARK Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tollen 0 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 To bad that there is a rumor going about how magazines might be dropped to the ground, and then the bullets get´s disoriented. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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