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WHAT WOULD YOU RATE GRAW THE DEMO?


What would you rate the demo?  

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graphically, the best part of gr1 was its ability to play well on a multitude of system configs.  it appears the only way to get quality graphics is to deck out your rig with the highest end hardware (which for most means ###### off the wife, missing a mortgage payment,  and signing over the first born).  I really hope that'll change in the release version, or patched quickly.

I'm a bit disappointed you can't change control to your other teammates too.  Sorry, but the team AI seems strangely familiar (almost as if a little piece of gr1 did make it into graw).  I frankly dont trust my teammates, I spend more time telling them where to go then playing.  I ended up getting tired of it and just had em walk into MG fire to be rid of them so I could put on my red headband and rambo em.  The ability to control your teammates is critical when AI isn't working in a situation.  though props to my sniper, the man can run and pinpoint snipers with his rifle all day long...I stopped using him as a sniper, and started using him as a rifleman, he just isn't stoppable!  plz grin, consider enabling the OPTION for teammate switching.  Some like it without, but others like it with.  can't go wrong with enabling options for such a diverse crowd as us.

all my whining aside...coming at the demo as "its not GR, its another game" mindset, I really enjoy the game.  It's the closest we've come yet to a tactical shooter since gr1.  graphics will look great when they fix a few things (seems to me it'd be professional suicide not too, esp with it being the bulk of complaints).  sounds are top notch (btw, does anyone else get someone from their team who won't shutup about reloading?  I hate losing a guy, but when they start that, into the mg fire they go).  load times are quick (except on a checkpoint load.  after a couple of those it starts winding down, fresh start of graw fixes that though).  all in all, if this was a new game with a new name, it'd get a 8 1/2 in my book with potential of 9-10 with some glitch fixes.  But I can't bring myself to rate it higher then 7 while bearing the name ghost recon.

I agree with your assessment DonMiguel. Thats why I gave them a 7 as well. Frankly, I was being generous. Note that I am going to buy this game. And like you I will enjoy the game as long as I think of it as "its not GR, its another game".

But your right.....its not gr. And this title will not have the staying power of GR1. In a few months other titles will be coming out that will go way beyond this effort.......graw is a fine effort yes......but it doesn't have the legs.

And I'm still absorbing more opinions before I give my official assessment.

I don't get how poeples could be lured into thinking GRAW would even remotely feel like GR1. Come on, GRAW should be called Advanced Warfighter, there is NOTHING related to Ghost Recon in GRAW apart from the squad's name. The first screenshots we've seen months ago showed urban warfare. There is almost no urban warfare in GR1, it was mostly very large and open maps with bushes and trees to hide into and hunt your enemies. And about that "hunter" feeling, it's not in GRAW :(.

Anyway, I can't see the link between both titles as far as Ghost Recon goes. GR was a almost a sim. GRAW is a tactical shooter...a good one (technical issues aside) but it's not GR...unfortunatly.

PS : Don't put your head in the sand. Retail will be the exact same thing. They most likely had the game gold and started putting the demo together afterward. I'm pretty sure this is final code.

Edited by Night-Hawk
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I don't know if many of you are afraid that GRAW will replace GR since its obviously better than GR. Like Xeno said, you want realism, but when you got it you can't handle it.

I'm not just talking about the dust in the face-thing, I'm talking about the importance of leaning and that the enemy actually can see you from a far distance.

If you want realism, play GRAW.

If you want less realism, play GR. :P

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I don't know if many of you are afraid that GRAW will replace GR since its obviously better than GR.

Fanboi response. You guys are reacting emotionally to the sequel to a game you love. Those of you who are giving it 8/10 really aren't that hard to please it seems. You state that you love how fantastic the graphics are, then you complain that you'd like to see AA. The jaggies are horrible and ruin the look of the game, especially for those of you that have to run 1024 or lower res. As for tactical, it's as tactical as GR was. I give it that, as for replacing GR: it is a sequel so that's what it's supposed to do. It doesn't fill it's big brothers' shoes though.

Alot of us are holding off till the m/p patch comes. I beat the demo level in 35 minutes, most difficult AI. So if there's 10 missions that gives me about 5/6 solid days of s/p gameplay. Then what? Coop with the same missions?

For those that love it, by all means by it. I don't see this thing having long legs like it's big brother.

You can rotate Aimpoints in the mount.  There is no "wrong side".  I have two.

Then the lettering isn't right side up when you rotate them, is it? ;)

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I gave it a 6. Which may change over time.

I feel I was right that this game was not Ghost Recon, but a new game altogether. A good game though. I think with some polish or me just adjusting more to things I could grow to like it a lot more.

I do feel that the levels are a little washed out, I would have liked to have seen a little more color. GR was not this desaturated. I feel that Grin has done an excellent job and revived my faith in the series (eh, well you get the thought on that). I do not think Red Storm could have pulled it off better (Except with animation and textures).

The animation really detached me from the scene, they just didnt blend well (team mates).

Over all I think a 6 is good for this (it is a demo after all so things change). The caracter controles are a little more complexe than I am used to but I think in time people will really like this.

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most of us old GR players loved the first one for specific things.  it is an outdated game not in concept, but in technology.  All of us GR1 fans were really hoping for a GRAW that was a GR1 but with the graphics, physics, and dynamics.  improved AI, vehicle interactions and things that the first GR never got due to limitations or initial design. 

Very true and well spoken. :thumbsup: GR is a great game and would only have gotten better with the things DonMiguel mentions but it sure seems like a bunch of gamers nowdays want a bunch of fancy bells and whistles to wow them for a couple of weeks then it's on to the next game of the week. GR never got old for me as it was full of good old fashioned tension and it was like a life and death chess match. :devil: I sure don't have that same feeling playing GRAW even though I like it better than alot of other games I have. :) I really can't see why some of your keep mentioning that GR's an old game move on and get over it. :huh: Greatness stands the test of time and GR sure has done that.

:wub:

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Then the lettering isn't right side up when you rotate them,  is it? ;)

Really rather a minor quibble, eh? It's a red dot, so orientation is moot. And when I'm shooting I'm not really looking for a logo on the side of the optic... :rolleyes:

On both of my rifles I have it so the battery compartment is on the left side, so if I have to turn the reticle power up or down I can use my left hand easily instead of having to reach all the way across the top of the weapon to the other side or have to take my shooting hand off the grip.

But, we're getting :offtopic: . If you have any more Aimpoint issues that need to be cleared up, PM me. ;)

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I gave it an 8 (not everything available in Demo). I personally love MOUT and CQB and miss the times in the army MOUT training.

I didnt have any problems with framerates. I saved some money to upgrade my rig because of this game and the old one wasnt running any games well. I bet people have enough money to upgrade their computers, Im a poor college student for crying out loud.

Graphics seemed fine to me, I dont by games because of graphics anyways. The sounds were good except the weapon sounds are quite average and didnt have any balls in them, there are better sounds in RvS and GR modifications.

AI was good, only times friendlies screwed up was because of my bad decisions and commands, although I hate when after a load they stay put unless ordered to. Its also annoying when they follow me so far behind, I want them right behind me.

I like how it was so "slow" so we are going to get some really good firefights and no bunnyhopping rambos.

I didnt find any big bugs/glitches yet. I hope the mod support is good, because with it this game is going to live a long life, I hope Ubi wont screw us like they did in RvS.

Overall a good game.

A64 3700+, 2 GB 333Mhz, Radeon X800 Pro 256MB

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I don't know if many of you are afraid that GRAW will replace GR since its obviously better than GR. Like Xeno said, you want realism, but when you got it you can't handle it.

I'm not just talking about the dust in the face-thing, I'm talking about the importance of leaning and that the enemy actually can see you from a far distance.

If you want realism, play GRAW.

If you want less realism, play GR.  :P

If you want less realism play GR? Dude, did you honestly think that thoroughly through before typing?

GRAW is ok.....nothing more. It is only better.....ONLY better in the respect that its using technology that is more recent.......period.

But it simply will not have the long lasting impact that GR did when it debuted. People will buy it and have fun with it (including me)....for a while. But it won't have the 5 years plus fanatical devotion that GR1 has and still has.

Hey, I could be wrong....but I doubt it.

And I've still haven't made my official assessment. Still gathering thoughts....still thinking....still reading others opinions. :hmm:

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well if I could define IT then so would the devs, and IT would be in the game.  old GR fans know what IT was, so I don't need to bother explaining IT.  but once you've seen IT, played IT, and loved IT, then you know when IT is missing.  get IT?

:notworthy:

7/10 for me.

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well if I could define IT then so would the devs, and IT would be in the game.  old GR fans know what IT was, so I don't need to bother explaining IT.  but once you've seen IT, played IT, and loved IT, then you know when IT is missing.  get IT?

:notworthy:

7/10 for me.

Yup, 7/10 for me too....but I was being generous. I will buy it and fun with it as long as I understand that its not gr.

But amen to DonMiguel's words. If you don't know what "IT" is then it won't help to try to explain it.

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I really like the game even though it has some issues... but will it last when we have games like Americas army releasing their new game with unreal 3 engine?

I never had any serious issues in the demo, everything ran fine and looks good.

One minor problem that I've only encountered once was my team mates saying "im releading" over and over! Commanding my team has become real easy now though.

Weapon switching is a pain, can get me killed easily :(

I'd give it a 7 or 8 for this demo

I love the gameplay and sound :)

Edited by whoa182
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9

the learning curve is a bit steep but that is my only complaint. i think it's a great sequal to a great game. i'm not much into coop or sp, but i can see the potential for mp. i'm not much into mods either because most ladders don't support them, and i play to be competetive.

as for gr and the outdoor wooded maps- i've been watching the battles our us troops have fought over the last 20 years and i haven't seen much in the way of woods. it's either desert or urban. i'd much prefer the urban over flat vast boring landscapes.

great game GRIN! keep it up.

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I gave it a 5.

On the one hand it was great:

*Enemies can be killed with a single shot and they fall in a nice way when so.

*Nice running animation for your fellow ghosts. Moving looks good in general.

*Acceptable voice-acting, not as exaggerated as i expected.

*Very nice lighting effects and particle effects. Awesome explosions.

On the other, it was not that hot:

*Not enough "chatter" between your men. They feel kind of brainless and without input on the current situation at hand.

*Gameworld looks and feels very empty.

*The mission ends when your one character gets killed (i.e - you can't switch to another ghost and atleast try the challenge of still completing the mission at hand)

*Aliasing is incredibly noticable (even at 1900x1200) and ruins alot of the immersion into the game.

*Alot of the general textures in the game are very low res (even at "High resolution textures setting")

That's all i can think of right now.

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9/10

What a great demo! I am having a blast with this : )

Controls: The controls "feels" right, hard to explain, but the mechanics in this game are just fine. The sliding moves continue to grow on me 8/10

AI: Oh man, ive seen my AI teammates do some of the most impressive moves ive ever seen in a game, the AI takes better cover at times than some real-life people do :rofl: . The friendly AI has come a looong way since GR1 AI. The enemy AI is a bit more tricky to comment on, I have been flanked so thats a start and they suppres pretty good, I would have to do some more testings before placing a final verdics on the enymy AI tho'. But for the friendly AI its 10/10

Sound: Desmond, what a great job you have done! When I first shot the scar-h, my jaw dropped : ) Cool how the sound is cast between the building-blocks. The ambient sound is good as well, I hope that the full version will have it more diverse tho' (depending on the level) The sounds are convincing and potent! 9/10

Animation: Everything looks as it should, the way soldiers sometimes take the bullet looks fantastic (anyone shot a soldier while he's in full speed?) The reload animations amaze me, I cant think of a game that has done it as good as you guys! Congrats! 9/10

Details: The dropped mags, the chopper insertion, the tactical reload, the way the team covers, its all sweet. 9/10

Graphics: Its good, nothing over-the-top, but thats ok with me. 8/10

Here are the letdowns:

-It has been mentioned a 100 times before; the aiming while prone...it just doesnt feel right when you cant aim lower than this.

-The music got turned off pretty quickly.

-This game requires a very fast pc.

-The dead bodies dissapear, thats a total immersion killer for me : /

-The bullet holes dissapear, thats a shame because bullet holes gives that "its a war-zone" feeling to a scene : /

-The emty bullet shells dissapear instantly, atleast leave them for a 30 sec period.

All in all a great demo : ) Good job GRIN.

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It took me a while to get the graphics to run smoothly while retaining a nice and decent look, another while to get used to the "Full Spectrum Recon" interface, and yet another while to get used to the limited FOV (and avoiding getting dizzy), but outside that it´s a good game, worth buying. I'll rate it 8.2.

-It has been mentioned a 100 times before; the aiming while prone...it just doesnt feel right when you cant aim lower than this.

It´s kinda hard to do that in real life, no to mention impossible.

PS: is there any autosave? I keep telling myself that there is but I can't seem to find it.

Edited by 3rdMillhouse
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most of us old GR players loved the first one for specific things.  it is an outdated game not in concept, but in technology.  All of us GR1 fans were really hoping for a GRAW that was a GR1 but with the graphics, physics, and dynamics.  improved AI, vehicle interactions and things that the first GR never got due to limitations or initial design.  something that kept the core of GR and gave us bells and whistles.  Something that was more open ended for modders to do what they did best in GR1 and bring us fantastic additions and changes.  It was the hope of an "enhanced" GR that kept most the GR fans I know standing in line for the hope of a sequel.  the question you could ask is why wouldn't you want a sequel like the first, cause thats what built the foundation of what is now ghost recon.

and I have to disagree with you Xeno.  its not about the realism of a lean or the way dust kicks up on a shot.  thats not the realism old fans are talking about. 

again, great game, its just not gr......yet (cough...mod tools be plentiful and powerful, and may you bless all modders with fertility of the mind and speed of the hands.  AMEN)

Amen brother :yes:

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well if I could define IT then so would the devs, and IT would be in the game.  old GR fans know what IT was, so I don't need to bother explaining IT.  but once you've seen IT, played IT, and loved IT, then you know when IT is missing.  get IT?

Not at all ...so you dont like the game cause of an intangible undescribable thing ...that from your description so far doesnt exist ... so no I dont get it.

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IT in my opinion was and still is the essence of GR1. it is the feeling of immersion into a game and a great balance in game play. Without balance and immersion you have nothing imo. Also gr1 caters to both high and low spec machines. the game can be optimised quite well on the red storm engine so it looks great on high spec machines but could still be enjoyed on low spec machines. anyways thats my quick go at defining IT , sorry Don if im off a bit, if i come up with something else i'll edit the post later.

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Once I got the game to run ( problems on my end not the game) I found it to be extremly playable in both SP and MP despite the fact that I have what I would consider a low spec machine ( 1.8 pentium 4 with a Gforce 6600 GT card) I obviously can't use the high graphics settings that will have to wait till this summer when I can upgrade my PC. Played for about 4 hours yesterday which I don't belive is enough time to really give an objective rateing so I will take a pass on that. As for the "IT" factor ...GR1 has the ability to lift one out of his seat if you understand what I mean, this is something I haven't seen in GRAW to this point . I would have to say at this point I am pretty impressed with Grins work.

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the IT:

Do you remember the first 2 weeks of playing GR? I can still remember the first time playing an intense battle, coop mode. Never before had a game got my adreneline pumping so hard, caused my hands to sweat, and and left me with an almost shell shocked feeling. And it wasn't because the game was new, because I've experienced that sort of thing many many times in GR and in numerous mods. Sometimes I was happy to die, just to be out of the tense situation that my squad was under, it was like a sigh of relief. After a couple minute break though, I was back in it. It was like a natural rush and high that you get from cliffjumping and bridge diving. There was a natural feeling in GR that drew you into the character you were controling. It would respond to your control as you thought it...you didn't have to anaylze keys, stare at cheat sheets, or reach across the keyboard for control...it was always right there, always intuitive, always natural. The game didn't have to have all the extra graphics, the extra effects, the extra polys for you to play it. You would draw back to it because it fed the natural impluses of the computer warrior in the most raw and elemental ways. You could truly feel the tension of your coop players as you went area to area, room to room, hunting tangos and fulfilling objectives. You just knew, if you didn't enter a door right, if you rounded that river bend wrong, that the enemy would kill you. He'd be accurate, unrelenting, unmerciful, and then would walk up to your slain body and watch you lie there, loving every minute of it. You learned to truly hate the enemy. They didn't act like a NPC that ran waypoint to waypoint with ROEs driving their actions. Like decor that you could shoot up and move on without a care. They became living entities within a virtual world that you couldn't wait to outthink and conquer. The controls didn't always allow constant movement...but that was part of the game. run strafeing, forget it. You want to move cover to cover, you needed someone covering your 6...and 3, and 9 and 7,5,4,2.... You didn't need to see the glean of your gun, cause you were to busy trying to tiptoe through bushes to get the flank on an enemy that you knew would kick the crap out of you if you gave yourself away. It was open and fluid within the confines of the 400x400m map. Neither you nor enemies were routed thru ridculous chokepoints that you could set an MG on and whistle dixie while eating pizza with one hand and drinking caffined soda with the other. You knew that at any moment it could be over, from 5ft, 10ft, 100m. Thanks to great mods, you never knew if that tank was manned, unmanned, capable of MG fire, or worse, able to shell the ###### out of your team before you could move those 100m to protection.

GRAW doesn't have IT because you know after 1 time thru, that sniper is in that spot, these men in this spot. You don't fear death because you feel like a warrior god that can do magical manuvering to cheat death at every turn. No, it doesn't have ti like titles such as Halflife 2, Unreal Tournament or Battlefield 2. But its there. Clone R Us is the "shooter" world, GRAW is just more realistic then the rest...but its still a clone. like the rest its got its features that others don't have, but the core is still fps based not tactical squad based.

Does that explain IT? not really, but its about the best you can do with words I guess. Once you've experienced the IT that GR had, you can't mistake IT for ANYTHING else.

Again, this is said respectfully to GRIN. They built a great game. I bought it, and do not regret it. This is THE BEST shooter to date to come close to GR1. But its just not what the hardcore longtime fans have come to love.

Edited by DonMiguel
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I'm not sure the "IT" can really be communicated by words. All I know is I don't have the same feeling I did when I played the original GR1 demo. I remember playing that thing for hours on end. And the countless hours I spent working on gun models for a mod and the excitement I felt over helping others make mods or the anticipation to download stuff for the game.

But, I don't see myself excited over modding for this game.....unfortunately. What does that mean for the long term I don't know.

I'm just hoping the full game reveals much more potential for this game. But again, I will buy it anyway and have fun with it for a while. In the back of my mind though I will always be on the look out for a special forces fps that has......"IT".

:rocky:

Edited by Stalker_Zero
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