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A super minor bug that I noticed in the demo regarding the Hummer-like enemy re-inforcement vehicle.

All windows can be shot and destroyed except the one of the rear door. Not sure if its suppose to to be bullet-proof, but I wanted to post about it anyway. :)

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The short of it: 

Nice game but its not GR. 

Doesn't have "IT".  If you need to know what "IT" is...you will never know.

I'm dissapointed with it. Used to love GR in Co-Op mode but this looks to be a right PITA for Co-Op play.

I preordered GRAW a while back but from what I've experienced of the demo I don't thin k I'll be rushing to install the full version now :(

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Help me. Just help me die.

The weapon switiching is a sham. I think GRIN saw bf2 and thought "hmm that's an interesting way of selecting inventory, let's do that."

Look, special ops teams are very small and lightly equipped - this means that training sometimes focuses on fast action reloading, fast sidearm drawing - with emphasis on spending less time looking for stuff and more time covering your sector. The weapon switching system in GRAW both makes a mockery of this ideal and is also driving me to insanity. One button for each inventory slot. Thats all it needs. None of this sliding through menus and then sliding back because you went too far and then finally selecting your sidearm/grenade. Correct me if button-to-weapon assignment is in the full game but I really think this would make the game alot more fluid and less fiddley.

Thoughts?

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Help me. Just help me die.

The weapon switiching is a sham. I think GRIN saw bf2 and thought "hmm that's an interesting way of selecting inventory, let's do that."

Look, special ops teams are very small and lightly equipped - this means that training sometimes focuses on fast action reloading, fast sidearm drawing - with emphasis on spending less time looking for stuff and more time covering your sector. The weapon switching system in GRAW both makes a mockery of this ideal and is also driving me to insanity. One button for each inventory slot. Thats all it needs. None of this sliding through menus and then sliding back because you went too far and then finally selecting your sidearm/grenade. Correct me if button-to-weapon assignment is in the full game but I really think this would make the game alot more fluid and less fiddley.

Thoughts?

I got used to it after a while and can switch weapons just as fast as in most games now. Being able to map them to the number keys would still be nice though.

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The weapon switiching is a sham

Thats what I thought at first... but within a few hours I liked how the keys are mapped out. Very easy to get the hang of.

Same here, but doing this in MP is going to need even more speed. AI won't chase you round a corner as you're trying to change weapon, human players will because they know how fiddly it is.

I have a very stiff mousewheel <_< (i'm using a new microsft wireless mouse), but for some reason the menu items still seem to cycle through all by themselves from time to time.

Maybe theres a way of using something similar to "joytokey" a program a read about on bf2s.com. It allows you to bind menu stuff so that you can use it while you're flying. I have it, but never used it. If someone knew how maybe it would be possible to bind a cycle weapon up/down to my mouse, it has two extra buttons.

I've already bound one so that it represents ALT and ALT is then set to push to talk in teamspeak :shifty: I'll leave the other button free for now in case anyone comes up with any ideas.

Just 5 days to go.... :o=

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Sorry in case this has already been discussed.

What about the death animation? I personally think it's perfect except one little thing....the body get's stiff too soon, which sometimes results in unnatural corpse positions (bend over, crumbled etc.) and doesn't look realistic to me. I think this should be corrected so that the bodies actually first fall to the ground and then - as soon as they "rest on it" start to get stiff that way it looks more natural and it's probably easy to fix! :)

BTW:

A lot of people complain about the look of the Wireframe Cross-Com. What do you all think about that? Should there be an option for realtime footage (like in the console versions) for High End PC's? I personally like it the way it is however I get the point why High End PC users might complain about it! :)

Oh, one last thing I'd like to add directed at those with the fullversion:

I changed the setting to HIGH via a modification of the XML file, however I don't see any real difference when it comes to textures (besides the Ghost armpatch) so I assume there are no high quality textures in the demo (maybe to keep the filesize down). Could anyone of you with High End PC's post a pic with GRAW (fullversion) running on HIGH settings? :)

Edited by Vth_F_Smith
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I can personally tell you guys that after my experiance on a 3.4Ghx /200 Prescott intel and ATi 9800XT 1gb ram the GAME did not impress on my 24FPW dell screen running 800x600 and control issues... well

I decided to upgrade and went all out AMD FX60 running std 2.6 BFG 7900GTX OC

and the diffrence is stunning 1920x1200 full widescreen 16:10 movement/control via mouse is SMOOTH as ICE !!! [prior on 3.4ghz & 9800XT was course].

This games min spec is nowhere near the low end thet GRIN have speced. My 9800XT just did not cut the MUSTARD !!! the 1GB sys men is ok !!! :santa: give ya selves an early christmas :whistle:

Edited by viiiper
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Help me. Just help me die.

The weapon switiching is a sham. I think GRIN saw bf2 and thought "hmm that's an interesting way of selecting inventory, let's do that."

Look, special ops teams are very small and lightly equipped - this means that training sometimes focuses on fast action reloading, fast sidearm drawing - with emphasis on spending less time looking for stuff and more time covering your sector. The weapon switching system in GRAW both makes a mockery of this ideal and is also driving me to insanity. One button for each inventory slot. Thats all it needs. None of this sliding through menus and then sliding back because you went too far and then finally selecting your sidearm/grenade. Correct me if button-to-weapon assignment is in the full game but I really think this would make the game alot more fluid and less fiddley.

Thoughts?

I agree. I hate scrolling through for my weapons, I want to be able to assign a button for weapon switching like GR1.

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A super minor bug that I noticed in the demo regarding the Hummer-like enemy re-inforcement vehicle.

All windows can be shot and destroyed except the one of the rear door.  Not sure if its suppose to to be bullet-proof, but I wanted to post about it anyway. :)

I am assuming you have not laid that vehicle out with a gl? I have hit it every time with a grenade launcher and every time there isn't much left of it, the telephone poles, the light poles, the stop lights, and the two cars close by...the windows are least of my concern, but it seems they are obliterated too lol

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A super minor bug that I noticed in the demo regarding the Hummer-like enemy re-inforcement vehicle.

All windows can be shot and destroyed except the one of the rear door.  Not sure if its suppose to to be bullet-proof, but I wanted to post about it anyway. :)

I am assuming you have not laid that vehicle out with a gl? I have hit it every time with a grenade launcher and every time there isn't much left of it, the telephone poles, the light poles, the stop lights, and the two cars close by...the windows are least of my concern, but it seems they are obliterated too lol

Nope, i was just shooting out the windows, one by one, for each vehicle. I mentioned the hummer-like vehicle because when the reinforcement guys are running out, they leave the rear door open and it could be perfectly used as cover and the window is in the perfect height too.

I love the way you can shoot thru the windows, there are no "invisible" walls which stop the bullets, or anything oldschool like that. :D

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quote: from Ikillintel

I'm not having any of the problems you guys have posted, from install to the end of the map has been smooth for me. I have all my settings maxed I use my EAX and screen res at 1280 x 1024. I use the same keys for GRAW that I did for GR1. Using the Number keypad helps when changing weapons and opening doors while Ctrl is used for zooming in, arrow keys for movement, , and . for left and right peek all my keys are within fingertips tap ...close together the closer they are together the faster you can react. I use delete to reload. This is the best setup for me... I've played this way since the first rainbow six came out.

Can you actualy proove that this game is running smooth showing screen shot of settings and fraps fps, as it almost seems imposible that your rig can achive it.  my rig is over double your spec on gfx and cpu and barly get low to med at 1024 x 768.

your rig:

Ikillintel

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ Barton  Mine(Sandiego 3700+ @FX57 2.8G)

Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO2

3Gigs Kingston PC3200 DDR Gamer

160 Gig Maxtor HD 7200 RPM

Audigy2 X-Gamer Pro ZS

ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB  Mine (X800XT 256m)

Diablo CDRW & DVD drives (Blue light)

Spiderman Gamer case custom graphic's & paint

all the pretty red, blue & yellow neon lighting and fans.

550 trueblue pwrsply.

Yeah sure... I'll try to have them posted later this evening man. I have nothing to lie about. :thumbsup:

I wasnt calling you a lier m8 just that there lots of people saying their system is running sweet when others are saying with higher end systems its not running hardly at all.

Theres little proof as of yet from people that rekon its realy smooth on lower end systems, me thinking that their idear of smooth is barly playable with bad mouse lag. If they like it lat way its fine but its giving wrong info to otheres that want real smooth game play consistant 45 - 60fps. At 30 - 40fps its real slow on the mouse for my speed of gameplay.

No probelm man, Im not seeing high consistant frame rates I never claimed that but the game believe it or not is playing smoothly without lag and jagged edges and all my settings on high. I think video capture would do me better justice for a "low end" rig I'm seeing rates go from 7 fps to as high as 103 fps thats game menu and in-game constant fluxuation, so before I submit any screenshots I'm going to try and get more from my machine and see what it can actually do. I had 40 processes running in the task manager so I think by killing some of the backround running programs and overclocking the card and cpu a bit I may be-able to see higher more consistant frame rates. :) I'll let you guys know what I come up with, if any improvements.

actually here check out these and then I'll take some more after I tweak.

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-1.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-2.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-3.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-4.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-5.jpg

If you zoom up on the one where I blewup the van you can see a skull face. Hehe.

Edited by Ikillintel
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Just played through the demo. If this is it, I won't be buying the game. I think my disappointment stems from the knowledge that this game had the potential to be so much more than it is. Many things are done well. Great graphics. But, my suspension of disbelief is dependent upon how well the simulation reflects what I know of reality.

I was expecting game-play that exanded upon what had already been proven in RvS, GR1 and even Splinter Cell. I just have a hard time believing that with the experince gained from those games, Ubi could screw the pooch like this. Ubi should have invited some vets to play-test this thing during development. It's not as if there's a shortage of us right now.

If you can get a guy who does this sort of thing for a living to sit back and say "Wow!", then you've done something. Anybody remember the first time you played the "Swamp" level in GR1? Well, I sure do 'cause it d@mn near caused flash-backs to times I've been d!ck-deep in freezing swamp water, in fog and freezing rain within a couple miles of where I'm sitting right now. I actually got a shiver up my spine. From a computer game. I remember thinking, "Holy smoke, I have been just that miserable. Now that was something."

Anyway, my $0.02 on the GRAW Demo:

1) All that nice architecture, but no way to fully eploit the 3D nature of the urban battefield (as in GR1). No interiors. No windows. Not one set of stairs or a ladder in the whole map. That's why we refer to it as "complex terrain". The bad guys can go high, why not I?

2) Going prone on the crest of a hill, why can't I aim my weapon below dead level? I either have to kneel or put my body over the crest, both of which expose you to fire.

3) So, I'm allowed to slide into cover, but apparently can't raise my foot more than six inches. I've spent five years in the light infantry and another thirteen in Special Forces. I can assure everyone reading this that the average Soldier is perfectly capable of stepping up onto and even over barriers up to two feet high. Walking or running. Day or night. We can even vault waist high barriers in full battle-rattle without to much difficulty. In fact, in many training areas this sort of thing is quite commomplace. So to in combat. Not in this game. Too bad.

4) No "soul-switching". I got news for you. In my line of work, you lose the team leader? The band plays on, baby. The team controls and orders menus are ok for general purposes but in real life it's occasionally necessary to just grab a guy by the shoulder and say: "Look, kneel here, cover from this corner to that corner." Soul-switching gave the abilty to fine-tune your team's dispositions in SP. And this AI apparently needs the help. It lags. Badly. Friendly AI in RVS would have been a better model. Also, can't set friendly's posture to take advantage of cover. Kept hearing: "I'm hit, I'm hit!", look over and the dummy is standing up behind a knee-high concrete planter. Followed shortly by: "Man down!"

5) Ammo re-supply from the dead. Mixed feelings on this. I can see redistributing ammo among the team (some guys just shoot more), but the fact is, even though they both use 5.56mm ammo, a G36/XM8 magazine will not fit a SCAR-L. Well, not without pounding anyway. And on that note, what is the XM8 even doing in the game? That program was killed off more than a year ago.

6) Could the enemy AI have been any dumber? No flanking. No grenades.

The enemy AI in RVS and FEAR gave me more aggravation by accident than these guys do on purpose.

7) Liked the way you could knock stuff over, blow up cars and shoot through car windows. How come I couldn't take control of captured enemy heavy weapons?

8) Liked that you can't shoot or reload while running. That reflects reality. In combat if you need to reload, you do it behind cover and before you move. Never dry-fire in a gunfight. And if you're running like you mean it(you know, 'cause somebody's shooting at you?) you couldn't hit the ground with a fist-full of buck-shot anyway. That's what your buddies provide cover fire for.

9) Liked that the bodies stayed put. Lends structure and gives meaning to a Soldier's life. If I go to the trouble of kacking some yahoo I want to be secure in the knowledge that he's gonna stay kacked. Otherwise I gotta be wondering where the hell he's toddled off to and am I going to have to deal with him again. Nothing more cartoony than magical evaporating corpses(I'm sorry, did someone say, "Lockdown"?)

10) Can't set ROE. Maybe I don't want to pick a fight with every yahoo between point A and point B. Maybe it's in the best interests of the mission to put your guys into a weapons hold status and sneak a bit. GR1 let you do this. What's so hard about that?

Something else I liked was that the 40mm grenades don't arm at the muzzle. They have a minimum flight distance before they arm. Just like the real thing.

I bonked one off of a corner (trying to "thread the needle" as it were) and it bounced back past my right shoulder. I had just enough time to think, "OH, SH_T", when it struck the ground. And just layed there. And I just looked at it. Then I thought, "Now how cool is that. Somebody went to the trouble of getting that one little detail absolutely right."

Again, part of my disappointment with this game is based upon the fact that somebody in development obviously was counting the pissants so closely that they didn't notice that the elephants were stampeding.

In short, graphics only take you so far. It comes down to game-play. Heck, I still play GR1 and RvS sometimes even now, dated as they are. Free advice for Ubisoft: Take GR1 and just update the graphics engine and physics model. You'd have ended up with a better game.

My sole interest in R6 and later GR1 has stemmed entirely from their utility as team-work building training simulators. They run well on the PC's we have and their effectiveness is limited only by their ability to accurately reflect R/L. Are they perfect? No. Can some good training value be derived from them within these limitations? Absolutely.

One enormous advantage of GR1 is it's basic gameplay and the huge library of mods I have amassed over the years. With GR1's inherent modability, I can set up almost any tactical scenario imaginable.

My only interest with GRAW was whether or not I could replace what is already in use, with greater fidelity and utility. The answer is no.

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Just realized that I haven't actually posted in this thread, which is the one most likely to be read by GRIN. So here goes....

Overall, I love the demo and I think GRIN has done a good job. Graphics run smoothly on my PC and look pretty good. Sound is spectacularly good. The map was nice and big with multiple routes available to most of the key points. This allows a fair amount of flexability in approaching and dealing with scenarios. Of course, there is a sort of linear feel to it because of the storyline, but I've used a wide range of different strategies to complete what is essentially the same mission. Good stuff.

The AI was a bit perplexing at first (friendly AI). They often seemed to do really odd things. However, now that I've racked up a good few hours trying the demo out I've come to appreciate the good things they do. I've realized too that a lot of the AI issues where due to my stupidlity or lack of understanding. The enemy AI seems good too - I love the way they try and use cover as often as possible. There seems to be a fair bit of variation in how they respond to you, which adds to the replayability. The AI is not perfect, but it seems much much better than other games I've played.

One thing I have noticed after playing the mission a good few times: although there are certain spots where enemy troops always are present, there are a number of roving patrols. Some I've only just bumped into once or twice. This is very nice indeed. Also, it might be my imagination, but a few of the snipers are not always deployed in the same place.

The tactical map is fantastic, once you get the hang of it. I didn't use it much initially, but I've really got into it now and I love it. A problem with the demo is the lack of a manual, so I'm pretty sure there are tips and tricks I've not yt accidently discovered.

Things which I think need some work:

-binoculars are a must!

-Probably the most important thing for me is the ability to MAKE my teammates adopt a particular stance (or at least GRIN should "finetune" the AI so they do the right thing more often) I don't know what rules they currently use to choose a stance, but they spend too much time standing up for my liking. Surely, it would be better to drop to a knee when in a designated position covering a particular arc? Also, when taking fire wouldn't it make sense for the dude to fall flat rather than stand up?

- I'd like the option to tell my teammates to "fall back".

- the option to put the team into "recon mode". There are times when you don't want them to open fire, but fall back if they see bad guys.

All in all, I'm impressed and I can't wait to get the full game. Thank you GRIN. This game is going to be something fantastic, and I hope you guys will continue to build on the framework you have in place.

Edited by Trident-za
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Some people are complaining that you can't aim below eye level.. Sheesh why don't you try aiming a gun to the floor while prone in real life...

Thing is, you can lie on a ledge or in a downward slope and want to shoot someone beneath you. This will be fixed in ASAP in a patch, believe me.

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Some people are complaining that you can't aim below eye level.. Sheesh why don't you try aiming a gun to the floor while prone in real life...

So true. It just is impossible, when you're prone you just can't shoot below eye level...maybe if you don't aim right. At least I wasn't able to accomplish that. :rofl:

Edited by rookie
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Some people are complaining that you can't aim below eye level.. Sheesh why don't you try aiming a gun to the floor while prone in real life...

Thing is, you can lie on a ledge or in a downward slope and want to shoot someone beneath you. This will be fixed in ASAP in a patch, believe me.

Thank you very much! :D

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Now that I've got my drivers for my vid card, the game runs much better than when I first got the demo, however anti-aliasing would be nice for the nVidia cards like mine; the jaggies are an eyesore.

Otherwise, I think that the gameplay is awesome. Its not GR1, but that's what I like about it. It gives a new feel on a tactical shooter, which is a nice refreshment from the run and gun frenzy called BF2 that I've been playing for a better part of a year. Those that complain that it isn't like GR1 tactically, I'll reply saying that the army has probably changed its tactics somewhat between the times of GR and GRAW.

Can't wait 'til full release and the implication of multiplayer. Good stuff GRIN, I think we can count on you to fix some of the bugs inherant with any new release, but also good things that would come out of a patch or an expansion perhaps? Good game so far...

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Thing is, you can lie on a ledge or in a downward slope and want to shoot someone beneath you. This will be fixed in ASAP in a patch, believe me.

truethfully on a flat surface with that bipod you wouldn't be able to aim down enough to shoot under cars either. (anyone else notice the sniper has a bipod?)

I think it is realistic not being able to shoot downward when prone even on a flat.

It also will stop glitching in MP games.

Edited by ROCOAFZ
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quote: from Ikillintel

I'm not having any of the problems you guys have posted, from install to the end of the map has been smooth for me. I have all my settings maxed I use my EAX and screen res at 1280 x 1024. I use the same keys for GRAW that I did for GR1. Using the Number keypad helps when changing weapons and opening doors while Ctrl is used for zooming in, arrow keys for movement, , and . for left and right peek all my keys are within fingertips tap ...close together the closer they are together the faster you can react. I use delete to reload. This is the best setup for me... I've played this way since the first rainbow six came out.

Can you actualy proove that this game is running smooth showing screen shot of settings and fraps fps, as it almost seems imposible that your rig can achive it.  my rig is over double your spec on gfx and cpu and barly get low to med at 1024 x 768.

your rig:

Ikillintel

AMD Athlon XP 3200+ Barton  Mine(Sandiego 3700+ @FX57 2.8G)

Gigabyte GA-7N400 PRO2

3Gigs Kingston PC3200 DDR Gamer

160 Gig Maxtor HD 7200 RPM

Audigy2 X-Gamer Pro ZS

ATI Radeon 9800XT 256MB  Mine (X800XT 256m)

Diablo CDRW & DVD drives (Blue light)

Spiderman Gamer case custom graphic's & paint

all the pretty red, blue & yellow neon lighting and fans.

550 trueblue pwrsply.

Yeah sure... I'll try to have them posted later this evening man. I have nothing to lie about. :thumbsup:

I wasnt calling you a lier m8 just that there lots of people saying their system is running sweet when others are saying with higher end systems its not running hardly at all.

Theres little proof as of yet from people that rekon its realy smooth on lower end systems, me thinking that their idear of smooth is barly playable with bad mouse lag. If they like it lat way its fine but its giving wrong info to otheres that want real smooth game play consistant 45 - 60fps. At 30 - 40fps its real slow on the mouse for my speed of gameplay.

No probelm man, Im not seeing high consistant frame rates I never claimed that but the game believe it or not is playing smoothly without lag and jagged edges and all my settings on high. I think video capture would do me better justice for a "low end" rig I'm seeing rates go from 7 fps to as high as 103 fps thats game menu and in-game constant fluxuation, so before I submit any screenshots I'm going to try and get more from my machine and see what it can actually do. I had 40 processes running in the task manager so I think by killing some of the backround running programs and overclocking the card and cpu a bit I may be-able to see higher more consistant frame rates. :) I'll let you guys know what I come up with, if any improvements.

actually here check out these and then I'll take some more after I tweak.

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-1.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-2.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-3.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-4.jpg

http://downloads.nhlclan.net/graw-5.jpg

If you zoom up on the one where I blewup the van you can see a skull face. Hehe.

Well thanks for putting the pics up, however it show my very point that there is many on these forums that are saying its all smooth and running great but only playing at very low frame rates. Can you can honnestly play at 12fps and be smooth then its truly behond me :o

If my fps is at 27 -40fps its verly slow responsive on the mouse but only just playble. Put your setting right down low and tell me how the game play feels and compare. Your find that after proper mouse smoothnes and speed you cant go back to playing at your current settings. I give game play priority over eye candy get it stable then start tweaking settings. My finnal setting is at 1280 x 1024 nothink on high but mainly on low some medium. I have to have 1280 x 1024 to remove the jaggies that are so apparent. Even at times when im playing it im thinking I may need to take some settings down a bit more. If your happy teh game play at 11fps then thats great for you and hope you enjoy the full game when it comes out.

I think anyone thats claiming smooth fast gamplay on lower end systems should post a screen shot or state the frame rate it which they are playing it at. This stops others thinking that theres sonthink wrong with their setup, drivers or other and to except that the game requires a super pc and or a patch to redifine the engine.

I played the game yesterday on XBOX360 and the graphics where much better than what I can play on my pc but had alot missing compared to pc. The Look of the game on xbox360 looks muhc the same as in lighting yet not one jaggie in site. This was viewed on a standard TV 32" wide screen at 50hz. IM going to put my pc through my tv todaysee how it looks.

Edited by daztrek
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Some people are complaining that you can't aim below eye level.. Sheesh why don't you try aiming a gun to the floor while prone in real life...

Thing is, you can lie on a ledge or in a downward slope and want to shoot someone beneath you. This will be fixed in ASAP in a patch, believe me.

This is why this forum is here for feed back.

Whining about this does not happen and it wont allow me to do this, is just so sad.

If its a valid point and wrtten down correctly I am sure it will get looked at.

You have been told before team members will come in and read and help if possible, as the quote above.

It took GR1 a lot more than a few weeks to get like the game we play today.

Patience people Patience.

Colin

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