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Xtra physics without the physx


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There will be hardware physics support for GRAW`s built in havoc physics engine(assuming that GRIN use havocFX) this summer from a new foreware 85 driver. :)

this will effectively give hareware accelerated support for physical calculations for anybody with a nvidia graphics card from the fx range upwards.....

I am sure ATI will offer the same support through a new catalyst driver...

Just thought i would let everybody know this...

Edited by GhostSniper
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There will be hardware physics support for GRAW`s built in novadex physics this summer from a new foreware 85 driver. :)

this will effectively give hareware accelerated support for physical calculations for anybody with a nvidia graphics card from the fx range upwards.....

I am sure ATI will offer the same support through a new catalyst driver...

Just thought i would let everybody know this...

You have a link for this? I suspect that you're talking about NVidia's upcomig SLI Physics. It's been discussed here on more than one occasion. If that's the case, your post is a little misleading. You will not be getting extra physics in GR:AW without the PhysX. What you might get is some of the non-high-end physics calculations offloaded from your processor to your GPU, but it will come with a penalty to your GPU's operations. Sounds like a bad idea all around to me.

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Engine Used In Development:

We are using our propriety engine, Diesel, that is currently at Version 6.0.

Other Software Engines Used:

Simulated physics? YES

AGEIA:

PC Gamers get treated to high dynamic range lighting and advanced shaders, that will drop you in a hot zone with the sun in your face.

This is one of the first games to test the waters of Ageias Physics hardware and the Novadex software.

You don’t need to worry though, about buying new hardware, as the Novadex software works in conjunction with the hardware, and also by itself, although the hardware will definatly make a difference.

NovodeX:

GRAW PC will support the NovodeX physics engine. We will use it to improve the rendering of most explosions / physics in the game, and there will be a specific work on the key moments of the game (buildings collapsing, oil truck exploding etc…)

Havoc:

engine as a standard, so gamers not equipped with AGEIA chips can expect great physics too!Ageia Web Site

Just a snippet.

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There will be hardware physics support for GRAW`s built in novadex physics this summer from a new foreware 85 driver. :)

this will effectively give hareware accelerated support for physical calculations for anybody with a nvidia graphics card from the fx range upwards.....

I am sure ATI will offer the same support through a new catalyst driver...

Just thought i would let everybody know this...

Will this come as something like a 'driver update' or special software??

Darknight

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Darknight,Apr 22 2006, 04:33 PM]Will this come as something like a 'driver update' or special software??

The new functionality will be via drivers, but again, this will not provide hardware accelerated Aegia PhsyX support. You will still need an Aegia PPU to take advantage of GRAW's hardware physics.

All the Nvidia/ATI updates will do is provide some acceleration to Havok's software physics, assuming the title uses Havok's engine, which GRAW apparently does.

In other words, those with high end video cards will see some performance gains when using the low end physics engine for those without the high end Aegia hardware/software support.

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In other words, those with high end video cards will see some performance gains when using the low end physics engine for those without the high end Aegia hardware/software support.

Is anyone elses head spinning?

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Darknight,Apr 22 2006, 04:33 PM]Will this come as something like a 'driver update' or special software??

The new functionality will be via drivers, but again, this will not provide hardware accelerated Aegia PhsyX support. You will still need an Aegia PPU to take advantage of GRAW's hardware physics.

All the Nvidia/ATI updates will do is provide some acceleration to Havok's software physics, assuming the title uses Havok's engine, which GRAW apparently does.

In other words, those with high end video cards will see some performance gains when using the low end physics engine for those without the high end Aegia hardware/software support.

Right first of all nobody said the new driver would give Aegia Physx support.

secondly the new driver will run havok software instructions through the gpu`s pipeline instead of through the cpu as per normal so in fact it will give hardware acceleration towards physical calculations.

and thirdly erm....... well thats it really..... :)

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Is anyone elses head spinning?

:P

In simpler terms:

If you want Aegia PhysX, you have to have a PhysX PPU installed.

If you don't have one, you still get Havok physics. If your video card is high end, you will get extra-pretty Havok physics.

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Is anyone elses head spinning?

:P

In simpler terms:

If you want Aegia PhysX, you have to have a PhysX PPU installed.

If you don't have one, you still get Havok physics. If your video card is high end, you will get extra-pretty Havok physics.

it`s a shame you cant buy the damn card at the moment....wonder if that will change.....

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Is anyone elses head spinning?

:P

In simpler terms:

If you want Aegia PhysX, you have to have a PhysX PPU installed.

If you don't have one, you still get Havok physics. If your video card is high end, you will get extra-pretty Havok physics.

Thanks for the non-techy translation. :)

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In other words, those with high end video cards will see some performance gains when using the low end physics engine for those without the high end Aegia hardware/software support.

Is anyone elses head spinning?

Basically this is nvidias pisspoor answer to Phys-X...

It means If you have 2 cards sli you can run one card for physics and the other for graphics .....in other words ...worthless

http://dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=1414

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It means If you have 2 cards sli  you can run one card for physics and the other for graphics

Just to clarify, you do not need a SLI rig to take advantage of Nvidia's new physics drivers. It's just highly recommended. A single card setup will work, although performance will be quite poor.

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It means If you have 2 cards sli  you can run one card for physics and the other for graphics

Just to clarify, you do not need a SLI rig to take advantage of Nvidia's new physics drivers. It's just highly recommended. A single card setup will work, although performance will be quite poor.

It seems that Nvidia and ATI want rather large bits of the physics processing pie.

mmmm.... should be interesting since they are massive compared to ageia

Edited by GhostSniper
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Havoc FX is an extra package and not part of Havok Complete physics middleware.

When I understand Bo's post correct, effect physics is done by PhysiX software/hardware package and gameplay physics with Havok but not Havok FX wich is new. So no chance on gfx card hardware physics with GRAW 1st version.

He said "The Nvidia physics is not supported now as it is upcoming and GRAW is imminent".

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...17entry344717

Edited by Striker-1991
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It means If you have 2 cards sli  you can run one card for physics and the other for graphics

Just to clarify, you do not need a SLI rig to take advantage of Nvidia's new physics drivers. It's just highly recommended. A single card setup will work, although performance will be quite poor.

without sli it wouldnt be an "adavntage" as little of an advantage as sli would be in this case for physics

/edit: either way my point is its worthless. wait for nvidia and ati to create some new tech to match phys-x ....and they will.

Edited by Xeno
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In other words, those with high end video cards will see some performance gains when using the low end physics engine for those without the high end Aegia hardware/software support.

Is anyone elses head spinning?

Yes, Dont you remember you did a whole piece on this about six months ago, when it was first announced ??

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Right first of all nobody said the new driver would give Aegia Physx support.

I know you didn't say AGEia PhysX support, GS. What I meant was misleading was the title of the thread. You do not get "Xtra physics" without the PhysX card, as your title explicitly states; without the AGEia card, everyone running an NVidia card after that driver update is going to get the exact same physics as everyone with an ATI card. There's no extra physics for NVidia users; there is only, as I said, an offloading of some of the physics calculations to the GPU for NVidia users, which frees up your main proc a bit. You might get better performance, but you do not get extra physics. Extra physics in GR:AW requires a PhysX card, period.

If you want Aegia PhysX, you have to have a PhysX PPU installed.

If you don't have one, you still get Havok physics.  If your video card is high end, you will get extra-pretty Havok physics.

Again, this is a bit misleading, like the thread title. You won't get extra-pretty Havok physics. You will get identical Havok physics with less of a hit to your main proc.

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Some additional reading:

NVidia SLI Physics Tech Preview

One quote very relevant to this discussion:

The latest incarnation, Havok FX, includes some very enticing features; namely using Shader Model 3.0 GPUs for physics calculations.  Technically Havok FX will work with any Shader Model 3.0-capable GPU to help game developers utilize those GPUs to help offload physics. Keep in mind though, that it is up to the game content developer to develop this support into their games.

So...

A -- It's only shader model 3.0 cards that will work with this, so if it's not an ATI X1000 series or NVidia 6000 or 7000 series, no dice.

B -- We've all seen in print that GR:AW has licensed Havok, but I can't remember seeing HavokFX, and there is a difference between the two. Unless GRIN has secretly and specifically worked HavokFX into their game, the SLI-Physics driver update is going to do nothing for GR:AW.

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So Basically to sum things up:

Option 1: No SLI

You just offload GRAW's physics to your GPU making the graphics worse, the physics no better than normal, and leaving your CPU with nothing to do.

Option 2: SLI

You just paid $300 for a second card that will run GRAW's normal physics, albeit with better graphics than option 1, but the physics will be exactly the same as the guy on an Athlon XP 200+'s

Option 3: Buy a better CPU

For $300 you buy an Athlon 64 3800+ x2, giving you all the benefits of the SLI option, plus a lot of extra processing power, for about the same price, minus what you sell your old CPU on ebay for

Option 4: PhysX

for $300 you get the sweet physics you want, the game looks good, runs fast, and you leave your CPU free to handle the AI

Right now I'm on option 3, waiting until I have the $$$ for option 4.

Edited by insane snyper
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So Basically to sum things up:

Option 1: No SLI

You just offload GRAW's physics to your GPU making the graphics worse, the physics no better than normal, and leaving your CPU with nothing to do.

Option 2: SLI

You just paid $300 for a second card that will run GRAW's normal physics, albeit with better graphics than option 1, but the physics will be exactly the same as the guy on an Athlon XP 200+'s

Option 3: Buy a better CPU

For $300 you buy an Athlon 64 3800+ x2, giving you all the benefits of the SLI option, plus a lot of extra processing power, for about the same price, minus what you sell your old CPU on ebay for

Option 4: PhysX

for $300 you get the sweet physics you want, the game looks good, runs fast, and you leave your CPU free to handle the AI

Right now I'm on option 3, waiting until I have the $$$ for option 4.

It wont be long now before option 4 becomes a reality and ageia is wiped clean off the map by both ati and nvidia.

hahahahahah..... :)

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  • 2 weeks later...
Havoc FX is an extra package and not part of Havok Complete physics middleware.

When I understand Bo's post correct, effect physics is done by PhysiX software/hardware package and gameplay physics with Havok but not Havok FX wich is new. So no chance on gfx card hardware physics with GRAW 1st version.

He said "The Nvidia physics is not supported now as it is upcoming and GRAW is imminent".

http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...17entry344717

From what I understand of FX-- I saw it at GDC-- you're quite correct. The Havok FX physics is away of using the GPU's inherent extra memory to produce "effects physics". What's really amusing ot me is that Ageia bills itself as being able to add gameplay physics, but, as is clearly seen in GRAW, they don't.

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