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First off I just wanna say I cant wait to get the game, everything I have seen and read looks great. Grin, it looks like everything you have been doing looks top notch. I just recently got to see a hd version of the pc trailer and I have one question/problem with it. I dont get the whole slide feature I was seeing in the video. In the video right around .43 to .45 it looked like the icecapades. Ghosts were sliding all over the pavement like they were walking on ice. I saw a feet first slide and during the slide the ability to shoot w/o any problems. I saw a person take about two steps and dive and slide as if he were on a slip and slide. I figured when I heard slide, that one would be able to dive for cover, with no ability whatsoever to shoot while doing so. If we are not able to aim while running, how are we able to dive and aim? If I am way off here please let me know.

I guess, are we able to dive and slide on our knees, feet first, and bellies, and able to aim and shoot w/o problems?

*edit*

I fear that people will frown upon these features and categorize it with bunny hops and dolphin dives.

Edited by Hadrian
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I saw that too, but it isn't that bad. You can slide like that on concrete, depending on the kneepads and elbow pads you are wearing. Also I play paintball and I sometimes slide on my back and shoot, it is possible to do, but you are not able to shoot accuratly. From the video we cannot determine if the guy shot accuratley while sliding, so we better wait and see how it turns out. I am positive and I think the sliding in GR:AW is very innovative.

Edited by Steel1977
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Well, if you have noticed... In the SP for GR:AW 360, you could dive and slide in it. But not in the MP, you can dive without shooting.

I'm sure GRIN will notice this and will figure out that it WILL be abused, you will see every person diving and shooting, every move they make, making it hard to kill someone.

If they do leave dive shooting in, it will definately lose my interest until they fix it.

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Also I play paintball and I sometimes slide on my back and shoot, it is possible to do, but you are not able to shoot accuratly. From the video we cannot determine if the guy shot accuratley while sliding, so we better wait and see how it turns out.

I did it once on a military live firing range (9mm) and believe me, you are not able to shoot accuratley. On the other hand this kind of 'spraying' makes the opposite party normally duck for cover and gives you some (short) time to reach somekinda cover.

P.S. ... realistic or not, it's a neat move

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Do you seriously think that Grin. would come out with a statment like this:

There is no jumping, although very low obstacles are automatically surmounted.

You can solve each gameplay situation in the game in an unlimited amount of ways and with different tactics/approach.

Kind of Gameplay is exactly the kind of gameplay we have implemented into the PC version.

People who have played the original GR will find themselves at home in GRAW.

No bunny-hopping! =D

And not do the dive to cover correctly.

The video you talk about, I see no shots being fired in that possition.

If you look at the video also you will see that the left hand and elbow is used to steady the body, keeping the weapon in the right hand. Would it be realistic to try and shoot with one arm, with the weapon pointed in roughly the correct direction???

Have a think about it.

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Well, if you have noticed... In the SP for GR:AW 360, you could dive and slide in it.  But not in the MP, you can dive without shooting.

I'm sure GRIN will notice this and will figure out that it WILL be abused, you will see every person diving and shooting, every move they make, making it hard to kill someone.

If they do leave dive shooting in, it will definately lose my interest until they fix it.

You say it like it is in "If they leave dive shooting in"

What do you know about this? Nothing. Stop building cases on nothing. Please.

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Well, if you have noticed... In the SP for GR:AW 360, you could dive and slide in it.  But not in the MP, you can dive without shooting.

I'm sure GRIN will notice this and will figure out that it WILL be abused, you will see every person diving and shooting, every move they make, making it hard to kill someone.

If they do leave dive shooting in, it will definately lose my interest until they fix it.

You say it like it is in "If they leave dive shooting in"

What do you know about this? Nothing. Stop building cases on nothing. Please.

I know it will be abused if left in.

And the keyword in there is "IF"

"If they leave dive shooting in"

In single player it's not a problem to have it, but I was saying, IF you leave it in there for MP, then it will be abused.

Since the topic starter is speculating on the possible chance that dive shooting is in MP as well.

Did I say that you will leave it in? No, I did not. So I didn't build a case on anything. Just speculating.

No need to get ignorant with me though... I didn't mean it in a bad way.

And the topic it self is on dive shooting in MP. So why yell at me?

Edited by SillyHalfMexican
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I really dont want to say it.... (look like im praisin grin to much lately) bo can definitly fight his own battles

He wasnt getting ignorant with you and I seriously doubt it will be a gameplay issue... If tossing frags while moving isnt in.. then somthing like this would definitly not be over looked

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Well, if you have noticed... In the SP for GR:AW 360, you could dive and slide in it.  But not in the MP, you can dive without shooting.

I'm sure GRIN will notice this and will figure out that it WILL be abused, you will see every person diving and shooting, every move they make, making it hard to kill someone.

If they do leave dive shooting in, it will definately lose my interest until they fix it.

You say it like it is in "If they leave dive shooting in"

What do you know about this? Nothing. Stop building cases on nothing. Please.

I know it will be abused if left in.

And the keyword in there is "IF"

Did I say that you will leave it in? No, I did not. So I didn't build a case on anything. Just speculating.

No need to get ignorant with me though... I didn't mean it in a bad way.

And the topic it self is on dive shooting in MP. So why yell at me?

The bottomline is you're whining about a feature you've never laid your hands on. Ever. GRAW will feature belly sliding and diving. It will be balanced. It will be cool. And it will not be another bunny-jump.

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The bottomline is you're whining about a feature you've never laid your hands on. Ever. GRAW will feature belly sliding and diving. It will be balanced. It will be cool. And it will not be another bunny-jump.

I trust that you're right.

It's just that I've seen so many "cool" features being abused.

I don't have anything against it at all, I like the idea, it's just that I visioned everyone diving and shooting, all the time.

No doubt this game will rock, so not doubting that or anything.

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I know it will be abused if left in.

And the keyword in there is "IF"

"If they leave dive shooting in"

In single player it's not a problem to have it, but I was saying, IF you leave it in there for MP, then it will be abused.

Since the topic starter is speculating on the possible chance that dive shooting is in MP as well.

Did I say that you will leave it in? No, I did not.  So I didn't build a case on anything.  Just speculating.

No need to get ignorant with me though...  I didn't mean it in a bad way.

And the topic it self is on dive shooting in MP.  So why yell at me?

One thing that has been evident for a long time is that Bo has hung out in these forums since his company got the contract to develop GRAW. He has been very open about it and accepted a special GRIN tag with appropriate colors in the online list to show he was a dev and here reading what we had to say.

Bo understands what we wanted all along and was told to build a game worthy of the GR name. He knows how we feel about arcade type features in the PC game and has made sure that something could not be abused. Still, there will be people that try to abuse things either way. Will we have tools to remedy the situation, I think so, we made that point clear. GRIN listened to us and they made it evident when I spied a Ghost Recon Classic wallpaper on one of the PC's there. Bo said it was his PC. I bet it is still there right now to remind him of what we want.

Since the release of the trailer, more from the GRIN staff have made their presence known here. It is nice to see them here. I am sure they are aware of those very concerns too. Until we can play their game and test it out, we have nothing but their word to go on as to what can happen. Bo has been upfront with almost everything about GRAW and I want you to trust him when he says that somethings can't be done in a way that wasn't originally planned.

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I know it will be abused if left in.

And the keyword in there is "IF"

"If they leave dive shooting in"

In single player it's not a problem to have it, but I was saying, IF you leave it in there for MP, then it will be abused.

Since the topic starter is speculating on the possible chance that dive shooting is in MP as well.

Did I say that you will leave it in? No, I did not.  So I didn't build a case on anything.  Just speculating.

No need to get ignorant with me though...  I didn't mean it in a bad way.

And the topic it self is on dive shooting in MP.  So why yell at me?

One thing that has been evident for a long time is that Bo has hung out in these forums since his company got the contract to develop GRAW. He has been very open about it and accepted a special GRIN tag with appropriate colors in the online list to show he was a dev and here reading what we had to say.

Bo understands what we wanted all along and was told to build a game worthy of the GR name. He knows how we feel about arcade type features in the PC game and has made sure that something could not be abused. Still, there will be people that try to abuse things either way. Will we have tools to remedy the situation, I think so, we made that point clear. GRIN listened to us and they made it evident when I spied a Ghost Recon Classic wallpaper on one of the PC's there. Bo said it was his PC. I bet it is still there right now to remind him of what we want.

Since the release of the trailer, more from the GRIN staff have made their presence known here. It is nice to see them here. I am sure they are aware of those very concerns too. Until we can play their game and test it out, we have nothing but their word to go on as to what can happen. Bo has been upfront with almost everything about GRAW and I want you to trust him when he says that somethings can't be done in a way that wasn't originally planned.

I do trust him.

I haven't been following GR:AW as much as I should have, atleast not from day 1 since it's announcement.

So I don't know the complete history as to what GR:AW originally started out to be, and the changes that have been made from GR.net requests.

I didn't mean for this to become a huge issue, just stating what I had envisioned in my head at the time.

I too was worried that it could be abused, but I think I have some pretty good re-enforcement that it won't be.

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They funny thing is, I was the first every to sign up in the forums here. Rocky gave me the URL to sign up at about the same time as everyone else from AGR-S.com via ICQ, I beat everyone. I never even followed the development of GR that close. I checked it out from time to time, but I for the most part, I was busy playing Rogue Spear. I trusted RSE to create a good game as their previous games were something I enjoyed playing. That faith held true.

I would say that I have been fortunate to watch the GRAW development and the interaction that GRIN has had, even if it was just Bo posting. Following that development has allowed me to be able to answer questions for guys like you, that haven't really followed the games development that long.

Everyone has questions that they would like to ask the devs, but let's try something that hasn't been asked yet that can be answered. I am more than sure that GRIN will answer the questions.

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i think if people hear that you'll be able to slide, they'll first think of some move out of a john woo movie. from what i've seen from graw footage, it'll be more like a quick way to get some cover which will, as stated many times, have a serious impact on your stamina. the way i get it is you won't be able to shoot accurately when performing that move, so that even if that move turned out to have the same attraction as bunny hopping, the people doing it won't live to see the end of the round. plus, it'll be quite easy to balance by changing the "cost" of stamina.

by the way, if people aren't happy with that particular feature, some server setting could simply disable it, right?

i'm REALLY looking forward on trying the game out!

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Ok WK i think I need to explain the sliding again (I think we got a few topics on this :))

Sliding: You can only do it from upright running (sprint). When running you can't shoot.

When sliding you can shoot but very inaccurate - mostly so you can hold ppl down or spray corners.

The distance you slide is a bit over what you can do in real life - but tweaked to work in a GAME.

Diving: Diving is done only from running crouched. AND you have to run for about 2 secs before you can slide. So you must get your speed up. So no bunny hopping.

You can pull the trigger while diving - doing so you wont hit much - you're face down in dirt and the impact is hard on your stamina and thus your spread.

AND NO the dive has too short air time to be able to Dive, shoot, land - forget that.

THEN we have the panic drop to the ground. Done when you need to get down fast from stand still or walking. NO you can't do it in tight intervals so no bunny hopping on the spot. Also kills your stamina for a short instant and no you will not shoot dead straight just after the drop.

Also it takes a while to get up (as Colin remarked in his interview and hands on) so you will not do this to gain any advantage - except hititng the deck and staying there.

All of this speculation on exploits is fruitless until you try it. IF someon finds a way then we will fix it - but I doubt you will. We have spent many man months honing this over and over and over again.

The controls are in a short - beutifull (Thanks to GRIN_Bedhead over here - who is now resting well deserved rest)

OK ppl thats it on that :grin2:

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Ok WK i think I need to explain the sliding again (I think we got a few topics on this :))

Sliding: You can only do it from upright running (sprint). When running you can't shoot.

When sliding you can shoot but very inaccurate - mostly so you can hold ppl down or spray corners.

The distance you slide is a bit over what you can do in real life - but tweaked to work in a GAME.

Diving: Diving is done only from running crouched. AND you have to run for about 2 secs before you can slide. So you must get your speed up. So no bunny hopping.

You can pull the trigger while diving - doing so you wont hit much - you're face down in dirt and the impact is hard on your stamina and thus your spread.

AND NO the dive has too short air time to be able to Dive, shoot, land - forget that.

THEN we have the panic drop to the ground. Done when you need to get down fast from stand still or walking. NO you can't do it in tight intervals so no bunny hopping on the spot. Also kills your stamina for a short instant and no you will not shoot dead straight just after the drop.

Also it takes a while to get up (as Colin remarked in his interview and hands on) so you will not do this to gain any advantage - except hititng the deck and staying there.

All of this speculation on exploits is fruitless until you try it. IF someon finds a way then we will fix it - but I doubt you will. We have spent many man months honing this over and over and over again.

The controls are in a short - beutifull (Thanks to GRIN_Bedhead over here - who is now resting well deserved rest)

OK ppl thats it on that  :grin2:

Awesome, sounds good. Thanks for the info as well, much appreciated.

Atleast it's good that the dev's took some dedicated time to figure out possible exploits.

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