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Will AI be the same as Rainbow 6 LD


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What AI? Seriously, making better AI than that is probably the LEAST problem we have. Making really good AI can be very difficult if you end up with a very flexible game and have a lot of different tasks for the AI. The less things the AI can do, the less they can mess up.

Edited by agentkay
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Yes. The AI in GRAW will be exactly the same as in Rainbow Six: Lockdown. GRIN can't be bothered coding their own AI. In fact, UBI won't let them make their own AI because they are under pressure from Bill Gates to make GRAW unimpressive for [some conspiracy theory crap], and porting the game from the 360. This is all while they are cackling inanely and lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills.

Also UBI killed Kennedy.

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Yes. The AI in GRAW will be exactly the same as in Rainbow Six: Lockdown. GRIN can't be bothered coding their own AI. In fact, UBI won't let them make their own AI because they are under pressure from Bill Gates to make GRAW unimpressive for [some conspiracy theory crap], and porting the game from the 360. This is all while they are cackling inanely and lighting Cuban cigars with $100 bills.

Also UBI killed Kennedy.

Dont forget they also have the lindberg baby and filmed the moon landings in the same studio they made GR2 in.

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AI Information:

GRAW features stealth and tactics. There will be no AI spawn hell.

Number of AI up to 20 against you and your ghosts, plus there are vehicles, both in the air and on ground.

AI will employ tactics.

This is Ghost Recon, remember? When we say “tactical shooter†we really mean it.

There are several layers of thinking for the AI.

The AI is tailor made to the game. The AI we created for GRAW is built from scratch and it is a very dynamic AI. It will respond to the environment, and actions by the enemy.

They will actively move from cover to cover when advancing to an objective and, with waypoints, will advance to the place in the stealthiest way possible.

The enemy AI will notice if they are under fire. There are three levels of AI awareness: individual, squad, and what we call mastermind that can control several squads for flanking maneuvers against the Ghosts.

The first AI layer is the individual one.

The AI will be self-preserving, which basically means that the enemy or your team mates will always avoid putting themselves in a situation where they could get shot.

They won’t cross your line of fire while you are aiming, and they won’t stay uncovered for long. For instance if you destroy the cover of an enemy (by blowing up a car for instance), he will move away to find another place to hide.

Then we have the group AI.

Which coordinates the individual AI to work cooperatively. Before he moves, one enemy will not only check where you are but also where his team mates are. If he sees that one of them is giving cover, he will be more likely to make his move. When a group of AI arrives to an area where the danger can come from several directions they will all cover a different direction, which is what trained soldiers would do.

The last layer of AI.

Is the “strategic†one. In some areas you will be surrounded by several squads and another AI will take care of coordinating them. Some groups will try to flank you while others will try to pin you down.

You will really need all the tactical tools at your disposal to try to get your team out of such a messy situation.

We have a difficulty setting that allows you to raise the difficulty level to your preference.

We are even thinking of implementing some super-hardcore setting for the pain lovers out there.

Taken from:

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Colin thanks for that detailed explanation. This looks to be a great game. All I see these days are graphic improovments in games and get bored of bad AI in games feeling like your having to look after your men rather than having them as a real aid. Im a big fan of GR1 and still have it on my pc great classic that game.

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The less things the AI can do, the less they can mess up.

I beg to differ. AI that can do only a few things is anyway messed up. Actual humans are capable of doing various things and if AI is to progress in the right direction with time, the bots must have the ability to do various things. I don't mind the bots occasionally doing silly things, as they are directed by artificial intelligence, but they must not be restricted to a handful of basic and repetitive behavior patterns.

As technology has progressed, so has AI but not as much as it could have. The improved features that we see in most of the games nowadays are that the NPCs use cover and have the ability to lean and shoot. Their animations have also become better. Some show co-ordinated group behavior to some extent.

But a few more features are ultimately required to be added to the AI. No matter what the level of confrontation is, humans always try to fool their opponent. Whether it is a street fight, small time combat or a world war -- humans always try to fox the enemy. They will try to make the enemy believe that they are doing something but will ultimately do something else. They will emerge from different places while shooting from cover and not appear from the same spot all the time. They may pretend that they are dead or injured. They might throw a rock to the right to distract the opponent and then come out from the left and shoot. The fooling of opponents may be on a larger strategic basis also. Traps are often set up.

Humans also try to save their injured mates. One will give covering fire while another will try to pull the injured guy to safety.

Humans have many different movements some of which are small and partial. e.g- humans can blind shoot by poking out just their hands. Also, they normally do the same activity slightly differently every time they repeat it.

I believe that the features that I mentioned, along with a few others, are needed in the near-future AI. I know that all of them won't be in GRAW and that is understandable. But the AI programmers must try to add these features, in the near future -- if they want to take gameplay to a new level. Bo and GRIN seem to understand the psyche of the tactical pc gamer very well, as Bo has often demonstrated in this forum. :) They also have the talent and seem to be right guys to carry this out in the near-future.

Edited by buddhiraja73
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I never said that GRAW will have simple AI, but IN GENERAL, the less tasks are associated with the AI, the lesser the chances that it messes up, BUT then its boring ´90s AI. There is a BIG difference in how hard it is to make boring AI, and really GOOD AI that does not cheat, acts human-like, but most of all, if FUN to play against. Nothing is more frustating than AI which acts dumb (LD) or AI which you can tell that it cheats (Joint Ops).

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nothing is more frustating than AI which acts dumb (LD) or AI which you can tell that it cheats (Joint Ops).

Very true, bro. :) But I want the gameplay, in future games, to advance really fast, just like graphics have. AI is one very important aspect of gameplay and I really want that to break new ground.

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I think its the case of not running before you can walk. If AI is added before its time it will mess up, just look at Hidden and dangerouse the first one. Far cry had much better AI and Swat 4 is not bad either. Aside from AI there is little emotion to games. Running around killing people in a game seems to have little impact and apears to be like shooting down cans. Better verbal communication makes a huge difference in games and can bring out the personality of the characters.

Also having a non linier game alows the gamer to make their own decisions. I like to use my brain in a game and skill and feel I want to go back and play more, not get through it as fast as I can to add to a list of games iv completed.

I can quote how many people have said to me if they only just made a game like GR with the core of Soldier of fortune wiht good AI it would be getting closer to real life, weather thats a good thing or not is another thing but iv always wondered how they got the go ahead to put such gore in a game and at least you could turn it off.

Edited by daztrek
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Hi there,

I must admit that I share daztrek's concerns.

AI to me is what makes or breaks a game. This is true in SP of course but especially in COOP, where the human squad tends to kick ass :ph34r: and really needs qualified resistance ;)

The best gaming experiences I have ever had were:

Ravenshield

Call of Duty 2

SWAT4

Far Cry

Ghost Recon

Why? Because of the hard and fun AI, thats why! :yes:

My COOP squad and I continue to play GR1 and Ravenshield because the AI is so much bloody fun to play against. We continue to be pleasently surprised by the Ravenshield AI that sometimes behaves very cleverly and unexpected :)

The worst gaming experiences I have ever had were:

R6 Lockdown

BF Vietnam

Joint Operations

Why? Yup - you guessed it - because of bad and predictable AI :nono:

Beautiful graphics is good to look at, but if you want a game thats fun to play and has great replay value in SP/COOP there is no way around it - You'll need great AI!

I hope and pray that GRIN is the right company to do just that :)

I'll take great AI over great looking graphics anyday :yes:

Best regards

Mike

Edited by MadMike
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The best gaming experiences I have ever had were:

Ravenshield

Call of Duty 2

SWAT4

Far Cry

Ghost Recon

Why? Because of the hard and fun AI, thats why!  :yes:

Good AI in COD2? Ok, it isn't bad but absolutely not good! I mean, tango's and even your allied AI just keep running around corners, where a machine gun is shooting non stop, as if they are unvurnable. Those others are indeed ok, nut COD2 no way. Just had to get that off my chest. The rest of your post I agree totally :thumbsup: , I also prefer gameplay above graphics :yes:
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I thought AI in GR was average at best. The only game I have run that seems to have decent (not great. No such thing at this time) AI was OFP. Tweaking the AI in OFP would make for one heck of a game.

Ravenshield AI is also average at best IMO. AI is probably one of the biggest downsides to any shooter. I just don't really see AI that is any good out there at this time.

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The best gaming experiences I have ever had were:

Ravenshield

Call of Duty 2

SWAT4

Far Cry

Ghost Recon

Why? Because of the hard and fun AI, thats why!  :yes:

Good AI in COD2? Ok, it isn't bad but absolutely not good! I mean, tango's and even your allied AI just keep running around corners, where a machine gun is shooting non stop, as if they are unvurnable. Those others are indeed ok, nut COD2 no way. Just had to get that off my chest. The rest of your post I agree totally :thumbsup: , I also prefer gameplay above graphics :yes:

Well, I did find the AI in CoD2 quite enjoyable (the best in the CoD/MoH series sofar).

I played on the hardest level and found that the enemy AI was quite good at digging in and forcing myself and my allies to retreat time and time again :)

/Mike

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I totaly enjoyed COD2 but its a completely different kind of game. A game where you have control over your men has to have reasonable AI. I think the PS3 will give the pc a good run for its money being it will alow mouse and keyboard and you wont have to keep perchasing new gfx card. There need to be a break through for pc as people will start to see the light that its way over priced just for a gaming machine. I think AI will have to be that breakthrough and the prices of gfx cards should come down alot more to give the average person a chance to own a eye candy gaming machine.

Think about it this way the price of a gfx card you could get a ps3 connected to your monitor.

READ HERE.

Edited by daztrek
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My opinion on AI in general

I'm speaking mostly for all first person shooters (console, PC, arcade to super tactical sims)...

I feel the reason why we have such weak to "average" (which is still weak) AI is because of the gaming audience. It would seem that more people like running around shooting at each other than playing against AI. I can understand this, fare enough. I always felt that if AI (friendly and tango) were "smarter", there would be more people playing co-op and more people demanding high end AI.

As a gaming audience we have all cried about having poor graphics so much that things have changed so much in what feels like a short period of time. For the most part everything visual has been advanced so much, that we all can experience beautiful graphics even on a low end PC or low end console (PS1 for example). But AI just never seemed to get the attention it deserved. We have PPU cards now because we all want to experience more realistic physics in our game worlds. Again, this serves more of the visual aspect of our gaming. As crazy as this may sound, I would rather have an AI (AIPU?) card before a PPU card. I'm not a programmer or chip designer, maybe an AI card would not be required to deliver AI that matches the high end graphics that we all experience now. No developer would ever dare to release a game with poor graphics. Wouldn’t it be nice if developers were also afraid of releasing games with poor AI?

There may be hope for smarter and faster AI development. I don't play consoles, so I can only say that I was very surprised that the 360 GR:AW audience were all so amazed about 16 player co-op. I take this as a good sign. Their obvious welcoming of 16 player co-op (most ever offered on console online play?) only strengthens the PC audience’s desire and demand for high end AI. Maybe a unified front would enable developers to better understand the importance of setting more priority to AI development than what is currently done. If they understood that the gaming audience in general is demanding smarter AI, maybe they would respond in the same way they did when it came to poor graphics.

This is all just my take on the state of AI in games (PC and console). I don’t have any proof that developers seem to overlook AI. I’m just going off of what I experience in the games that I play and have played. For the record, as much as I may complain about the AI in GR1, I didn’t complain when I first played. It may be because the AI did not advance and learn over time as I did (4+ years). I don’t know how many lines of code or new hardware is required to do this, but I would like to see AI that learn from what they have experienced over time. If I am able to become more skilled in my tactics, so to should the AI (friendly and tango).

I guess what we need to do next is to determine what we mean by high end AI. Simply smarter or more human like?

silent_op

Edited by silent_op
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silent_op Totaly agree with that.

We will have to see what GR3 brings us. If I have to have a moan it would be PORTS! just dont do them please I beg you! If it dont feel like a fps made for a pc then it isnt a FPS so id rather not spend money on it.

Keep PC gaming alive by giving the games to the PC first.

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best AI are in GTA3, just a bounch of cattle ready for the slaughter. Favorite, men in tight jeans shorts always saying something about "YMCA." :rofl:

Seriously. At this point, GRAW will change gameplay for the next generations of Tactical shooter games.

O ye have faith :thumbsup:

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