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Worried about GRAW PC


Poita
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Ok this thread 'is' about GRAW. I'm just using the RSE output of Lockdown as an indicator.

If LD 'is' an indicator then it's a bad one.

I have noticed in the last few years that many many games have kind of homogenised the sensibilities between the PC and console aesthetic. Even to the extent that the options screens on the PC counterparts feel very restricted and limited in the choices as they seem like a barely expanded console option screen layout. (I've seen some pc versions of console games that have no option to even turn down the music.)

The PC Lockdown demo has a certain 'consolisation' feeling to it, in a similar way that SWAT4 did. It seems to be a trend to ease some PC games closer and closer towards a console look and feel. Partly i'm sure this is for ease of multi dev house production but I also get the sense that it's a strategy of some kind to 'condition' the pc gamer.

Playing the Lockdown demo has caused me to once again worry about GRAW PC. LD has fat, generalized graphics. Although very nice and shiny they just don't have the precise feel that PC games usually do. The chunky iron sights could have been sharper. when you fire at an enemy there is a very 'general' feeling about it. It doesn't have the precise feel of GR or R6 games. In those if you miss you really felt that you had not aimed well but in LD you just feel that your aim was 'general' and if you hit or miss was just up to the game. This isn't an 'iron sights/reticule' issue either, it's the whole feel of the consolised aesthetic.

If this can happen to the mother of all tacshooters then this is why i'm worried about GRAW PC.

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Funny I didnt realy want to post here untill demo/release but I too have played the Lockdown Demo and then "pondered" .... hmmmmm :hmm:

The worry I guess is that its RSE that was involved and yet, well, get the demo etc etc.

This is GRIN, so I hope they are fresher meat in terms of "keeping it real" etc. We shall see with the demo.

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I was going to pre-order GRAW....but after seeing the LD demo....I will definitely wait to see the GRAW demo before buying.

Pre-order, play the demo. If you like it, order stays... if not, cancel the order. No loss on your part except for the 3 minutes it takes to preorder GRAW. :)

Let us have faith... GRIN is developing GRAW. I played LD for about 5 minutes today after 4 deaths and one kill, and waiting 30 seconds in between each death. Ukh, what a waste.

I was not impressed by the LD demo, but this is, to me, NO signal as for what GRAW will be like. Different Dev Teams all together. I'm putting my trust in GRIN to do us right with GRAW. I really think the LD demo has NO connection with GRAW's potential.

My 2 cents.

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It gets even more complicated; did GRIN do what they wanted for AW, or RSE for Ld?

2 totally different dynamics, same deaf publisher. I don’t know bros.

We, the fans, have done all that we could to guide the devs in the right direction for this project. We even caught some heat and got into trouble sometime, because we were too animated about some of the stuff presented to us or, the stuff that we didn’t get.

They should have included us in the production process. - Advienne que pourra ;)

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I don't know guys, I'm getting a bit concerned seeing how march 31st will be upon us before we know it. I too like to get my hands on a demo but with 2 months left, will we?

We don't buy cars without a test drive. We don't buy electronics without seeing a demo system run. I think you get my point here. But I'll give GRIN the benefit of the doubt. But if I'm not mistaken, RSE gave us a demo atleast 2 months before the game released. Is there a change in game development? maybe. But I find it hard to swallow this idea of ***pow*** the game comes out and then say...buy it! I tested GR when it was a demo product. That's how I knew I wanted GR

But I'll be as patient as possible. Only then time will tell

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I feel that if this is the case, that GRAW will somehow be a dumbed down consoleidus version of past Ghost recon 2 or any other console shooter, that just does not give justice to GR1 pc. Then i assume just be thankful that we have GR1. That game to me is that good. After 4 years of playing it, i still love to play GR. I figure if they won't go in the direction that took them here to begin with, then as far as im concerned, the only GR title be know is GR1 pc and that is it. What i can't understand is why they have not gone in the same direction for GR2 as for GR1, knowing they had to cancell GR2. They just highjacked the title is what, i suppose. It just seems that it would be really not much trouble to up the ante on GR1 and be done with it, I think that is why there is so much frustration with this crowd is that, how hard can it be to just give us a face lift and new stuff, and be done with it, so to speak. I in know way am saying that it is easy work to make a tac sim such as GR, but why take it in another totally different direction, and then have the gall to call it what it's not. I just know these guys know what we are asking for cause they put it out in GR1 so it seems foolish to go on and on about what we enjoy about the game so.....hmmmm just am really am hoping that these guys have done good by GR1! Much respect Bill.

Edited by wildbill
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:wall::rofl::rofl: You guys crack me up, you play a demo from a company the other side of the world and its all doom and gloom.

1. Different type of game.

2. Different Team

3. Different game engine

4. Different Country/Different Philosophy

5. The alpha version of GRAW has got a far better write up from gaming sources on it than RSE Near Final version Of LD

Do not worry ex LD Dermo Players it will not be the same, not even close.

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I too have been a GR fan from day one, along with RS6. I believe it is a "reluctance" on the part of the dev's to keep the learning curve as high as it is.

It seems as if they want the "playing experience' to be the same for ALL PLATFORMS regardless. Whether its a PC, or XBox, or PS2.

You just could not "plug-n-play" GR or RS6. It took time and practice. You used the pre-planning to create your tactics and implement them. Over time you got better and better. Lately, this does not seem to be the direction some games are headed. The console seem to be designed towards "small" squad size, to accompany the idea of just a single player, and limited numbers pf players in Co-Op.

I am hoping that WK is absolutely-positively-without-question-110% correct!

( I follow your posts, and have faith in you)

The latest RS6:LD plays similar to what I tried on an XBox with GR2. Just a simple, linear, Fast Paced Shooter. Moving slow just got me shot. Not bad, just not what I expected for a GR game.

Perhaps GRIN is listening and watching. Maybe if their version of GR is good, (and I am praying too) they could get the chance to "re-do" the RS6 title?

Thankyou for listening..........hoping that GRAW meets expectations.

danegeld2

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We were told by UBI/RSE that LD would be a tactical minded game like the previous releases---it isn't. They didn't listen to this community whatsoever, in fact they seemed to listen, then do the opposite!

Different team notwithstanding, UBI still ultimately calls the shots.

A large number of R6 fans are GR fans, how can we believe the PR that makes assurances that have been simply not true?

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We were told by UBI/RSE that LD would be a tactical minded game like the previous releases---it isn't. They didn't listen to this community whatsoever, in fact they seemed to listen, then do the opposite!

Different team notwithstanding, UBI still ultimately calls the shots.

A large number of R6 fans are GR fans, how can we believe the PR that makes assurances that have been simply not true?

:whistle:

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We were told by UBI/RSE that LD would be a tactical minded game like the previous releases---it isn't. They didn't listen to this community whatsoever, in fact they seemed to listen, then do the opposite!

Different team notwithstanding, UBI still ultimately calls the shots.

A large number of R6 fans are GR fans, how can we believe the PR that makes assurances that have been simply not true?

What you say makes sense to me... maybe risky, you're saying this though, as it seemed to me (though I may be mistaken) re: another thread(s) that whenever people are saying their opinion is that UBI/RSE does NOT care about GR'ers or our feedback, etc... :whistle: ... threads get shutdown! Er, because they are negative & repetative and/or so we can get time to cool down, I think? But, maybe it's okay to say UBI/RSE does not "listen," whereas does not "care" is too radical/smashing/potentially crushing to developers, etc. working on GR:AW? :ph34r::(:rofl:
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Quote:"But, maybe it's okay to say UBI/RSE does not "listen," whereas does not "care" is too radical/smashing/potentially crushing to developers, etc. working on GR:AW?"

Maybe you can send the UBI team some cookies to "console" them, Janie?

I don't mean any insult to any of the people who are just "following orders"and doing their jobs for the corporation, I just want the UBI PR people to be truthful in their statements to the public.

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Colin i understand your wanting to calm us down a bit, after all we can get a bit hysterical some times . . . but i don't think your point is valid. The dev guys may be on different continents etc but in fact we can see the same trends from totally different games and publishers. So the fact that GRIN and RSE are cousins if you like is more of a worry as we see the spread of 'consolitus' between houses that have no connection at all.

I expected a bit of a flaming for my post. It just goes to show how worried everyone is that i escaped un singed.

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:wall:  :rofl:  :rofl: You guys crack me up, you play a demo from a company the other side of the world and its all doom and gloom.

1. Different type of game.

2. Different Team

3. Different game engine

4. Different Country/Different Philosophy

5. Same publisher :ph34r:

:P

(He posts purely for comedy value while uninstalling LD Demo and returning back to getting faster lap times in GTR)

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Ok I have played this demo LD and it seems fine, couple bugs but thats it.

I played it in a tactical way with my Daughter and it was good fun.

Its a long way from GR1 which we have both been playing for five years, better in a lot of ways not so in others, but they are 2 totally different games.

I have read all the forums re LD and it seems not many people are happy.

One of the main points is AI not too switched on.

Well if you read the relevent game details it clearly states that AI are set at different levels as you progress in the game.

I thought the MP was very good on LAN that is.

Now GRAW.

All we have to compare is Screens from the PC version, so this is going to be hard to compare, infact I should not try to compare because I and no one else has enough information for an accurate descusion.

I see the argument believe me I know exactly what you are worried about.

I feel the 2 games might look similar.

But I know thats where the simalarities will end.

Why,

about six months ago and I cant find it now, we had some info that this game GRAW would blow away any competition that is coming out this year, there are more than one or two sources for this info.

IGN and someone else.

And Grin were told by UBI make this game work, what ever it takes do it.

That statment and the Dev Team involved tells me we will most certainly get a great game.

Remember the Dev Team info we put up a couple months ago these guys and girls are fanatical about this game, some of the stuff they produce is awsome.

So this tells me not to worry about the actual team.

UBISOFT remember did not have to go to Grin to get this done they could have made us waite a couple more years.

They didnt, they have gone to a lot of expence to cancel gr2 and go ahead with GRAW, I absolutly beleive this statment:

but we did not want to risk releasing a final product that did not meet their high expectations. With the launch of Ghost Recon 3 planned for Winter 2005, significant human resources were needed to ensure the quality of the future instalment of the series, thus potentially jeopardizing the quality of either Ghost Recon 2 PC or Ghost Recon 3.

This is true we are a hard lot to please, and at the end of the day if the game turns out to be crap then we wont buy it its as simple as that, you guys/girls know how effective a forum this is and has links to many other sites, if the game turns out to be a none starter, it will be all over the net in 24 hrs.

Comments here in these forums riple across the world believe it.

This would definatly affect its sales with out a doubt.

In closing I understand concerns I really do, but Ubi have staked a lot in the Dev Team and this games success.

It wont fail.

Colin

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Comparisons between Lockdown and GRAW are inevitable. One major difference is the nature of the games, LD is very interior, very CQB while GRAW will probably be mostly open street fighting with larger maps and longer view distances. The squad control via intuitive orders will be similar, as the structure, single character with squad control. I like the squad control in LD, I find it easy and robust. Any time you can move a squad around a map, you have tactical potential. A big difference in GRAW is the inclusion of the tac map, which allows you to move each man independently or the squad as one, multiplying the tactical potential. The combination of both kinds of squad control gives you a finer control of the map.

As far as realism, it remain to be seen how the hit damage system works in GRAW. I like the iron sights in LD and I think the game is a lot of fun. The ability to have the squad suppress the enemy while ou flank, reminds me of BIA, only better.

I think hard core gamers will have to adjust to compromises made in order to attract casual gamers to their titles, hence the move to single character, smaller squads, easier, more intuitive squad orders, more forgiving hit damage models, etc. They're still an improvement over the one man army games like FEAR, the more squad control you have, the more tactical potential there is.

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I was a little concerned about GRAW after playing LD too, but then I remembered why I'm looking forward to GRAW so much. The few details that we have indicate that it is going to be the tactical shooter we all want (or close to it, I'm sure we'll all find some flaws in it ;) ). While it does have the hero character and single squad system like LD, the command map and individual squad member order system should make up for that. The maps will non-linear allowing us to tackle missions (lasting up to 2 hours !!!) how we want to. The enemy AI sounds very impressive, operating on individual, squad and strategic levels, and will have to be better than LDs to cope with the non-linear nature of the maps.

There's plenty of other details of course, they're just the ones that come to mind immediatly when contrasting with what I don't like about LD. There's still plenty of reason to look forward to GRAW, and of course there's almost certainly going to be a demo for us to 'try before we buy'. Judging by how late LDs came out though I won't be expecting it for a while.

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UBI still ultimately calls the shots.

although true & this was probably a main factor to the changes in GR2 however Grins brief from the top dogs at ubi was along the lines of "Do what ever it takes to win the PC fans back" I can't remember the exact quote or by whom but it was quite clear from the out set that UBI were giving GRIN free reign on this.

I still have faith :thumbsup:

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I've said it before and i'll say it again. My brother's friend in North Carolina lived close to us and worked for RSE. I got to hang out with him on many occasions. When I inquired about Lockdown, a project he helped to lead, he told me and I quote, "It's gonna suck." He said he joined RSE for the feel of games like Rogue Spear, I think that's the one that got him to go there in the first place. As a result of recent changes, he has changed jobs as he didn't find it as exciting anymore.

Now, on the other hand, when I inquired about GR:AW, he had a completely different opinion. He told me, "That game rocks." I can only assume that with this statement he had either played GR:AW, or he knew some of the people that were leading its development and they told him out of excitement. And this was during the summer. Don't get your panties in a knot ladies, there is still hope.

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I appreciate that the GRAW lads are 'huge GR' fans but that doesn't always mean they will do a great job. Some of the greatest games are made by guys who say they dont play games much.

Then again, Danny Cannon was supposed to be a 'huge fan' of Judge Dredd. Them two music videonobs were supposed to be huge fans of 'Hitch hikers guide tot he galaxy'. George bush was supposed to be a huge fan of liberty. hehe.

I get a very good vibe from the GRAW lads though so I'll place my hope in them.

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