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Welcome to the forum devilsgrin.

For me the linear maps and the spawn right before your eyes features killed GR2. I couldn't love a tactical shooter with features like that. Both elements that play to the action oriented game. Now of course SS changed that, but that is another story altogether.

Have you run SS yet?

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Welcome to the forum devilsgrin.

For me the linear maps and the spawn right before your eyes features killed GR2. I couldn't love a tactical shooter with features like that. Both elements that play to the action oriented game. Now of course SS changed that, but that is another story altogether.

Have you run SS yet?

Whoa, did you read his post, J?

He mentioned SS quite a few times.

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First post at GR.net but I've been on Ubi's forum for a bit and TeamXbox longer. This is in response to both jchung and WhiteKnight77's comments.

I bought GR1 when Xbox Live launched back in ’02. I liked both the single-player and multi-player aspects. I esp. liked unlocking better weapons for multi-player with unique characteristics in gameplay, sound, and graphics. The M98 sniper rifle, 7.62 sniper rifle, and 7.62 carbine are just a few examples of favorite guns that performed differently than standard default guns. I thought the challenge of the single-player game was great and I liked flipping from one team member to the next and controlling two teams. I enjoyed the multi-player aspect the most. I liked the maps (esp. Night Docks, Embassy, Airfield, oh heck – nearly all of them – I’m getting nostalgic!) and the frequent one hit kills were a breath of fresh air compared to the 10 to 100 hits some games required to kill an opponent. :notworthy:

GR:IT removed the unlocking weapons feature for multi-player but left unlocking more skilled soldiers for the single-player. It also seemed to focus players in on a fewer number of weapons that were worthwhile online, like the one sniper rifle (what was it – SA-90?) and it’s silenced version. Even the M98’s stopping power was decreased and its sound changed for some reason. However, the maps were well done and the online coding was more stable than GR1’s.

GR2 really took the heart out of the single-player game. It was sad to see a once great game turned into such a mediocre, action-oriented, 13 year old target audience production. Everyone here knows the flaws in the single-player game so there’s no point rehashing it, other than to point out there was nothing to unlock that affected game play – a big nod toward dumbing down the game there. The multi-player side of the game was superior to GR1 and GR:IT only in graphics (which was a big improvement) and its ability to handle launchables online without crashing/lagging. The weapons however seemed to be all the same in their performance with new skins overlaid. The sound of the weapons was okay but never approached the greatness of GR1. It was fun to be able to tell what sniper rifle an opponent was shooting in GR1 just by the sound. I never experienced anything like that in GR2. The worst aspect of GR2’s multi-player was the hit detection. Countless comedic scenes were played out where two players squared off 10 to 20 feet apart and sprayed bullets at each other to no or little effect. Many times players ran through streams of bullets unscathed like R2-D2 and C-3PO in the first Star Wars movie’s (episode 4) opening scene where the bots crossed a hallway filled with Imperial and Rebel laser fire. Sniper’s packed up their rifles and grabbed assault rifles due to the bullet lag/hit detection issue.

GR2 was the game that broke up a 2 year running group of Live friends for me and that’s what I regret the most. We had a solid group on GR1 and GR:IT but the hit detection of GR2 caused 1/2 of the group to move to other games and they never came back out of frustration. They will play with us on Halo 2, Splinter Cell 3, or Battlefield 2 but not GR2 or GR2:SS. They miss the frequent one hit kills of GR1 and GR:IT. :bye:

And that brings me to GR2:SS. Was there a single-player game? I guess so but I wouldn’t remember. There was no reason to play it knowing it was just like GR2’s action-oriented game with nothing to unlock and little challenge. That was a waste of development money in my opinion. GR2:SS improved the HUD over GR2’s . . . and that’s all I can say about it.

Of course, there’s a lot more to be said about the bugs and glitches but I won’t other than to say they seemed to be worst in the first game (GR1, GR2) and less so in the expansion (GR:IT, GR2:SS) and the patches took entirely too long to come out. That does make me worry some for GR3. <_<

So, after all of that, I agree with WhiteKnight and jchung about the flaws of the game and the decision to move towards a more inclusive gaming experience at the sacrifice of a more enjoyable and lasting one. It seems like Ubi took the approach of making a deep impact with GR1, attracting a loyal and hardcore audience and then trying to hold that audience while trying to broaden the appeal. It failed to hold the audience it had though. Improving the graphics would have been enough to both broaden the audience and hold the original base but Ubi decided to listen to 13 year olds and magazine reviewers who, by definition, can’t take the time to learn a complex and challenging game well enough to give it a good review. If a game is too difficult for a reviewer to get past the 1st few levels before deadline then the game is flawed to some of them since they consider themselves masters of gaming when they are actually just masters of the same old tired genre of action-oriented, simplistic games. Ditto 13 year olds. :wall:

I’m getting the impression that with GR3 Ubi may have decided to let Red Storm cater to the hardcore crowd via multi-player while letting another developer cater to the magazine reviewers (who never bother with multi-player anyway) and 13 year olds. That’s a better approach than GR2 but still not as good as GR1. I hope that hit detection will have been addressed in GR3. That alone will sell the game to me and my friends. We can skip the single-player game if we have to. :fingersx:

I’m holding out hope that this game turns out well and comments earlier in this thread are making me feel more positive but I won’t be buying GR3 on day 1 due to the bugs of the past in online play. I attended a LAN party for GR2 and thus wasn’t aware of the online issues until I bought the game and then waited several months for a patch. Good luck Red Storm/Ubi, esp. with quality assurance/play testing. No more embarrassing loading/cache bugs either like with GR2:SS!! I’m still having to tell newbies (who don’t know how to use the search feature) on TeamXbox’s forums how to work around that bug that you never patched. Shameful. :nono:

Edited by X_Hamilton_X
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Have you run SS yet?
Other people have already answered, but yes of course I've played SS in-depth. I haven't spent as much time with the single-player in either GR2 or GR2:SS because they didn't sit well with me. I've played countless hours online in both titles though. We're talking 8 hours at a time, 4-5 days a week when they both came out. I practically live on Xbox Live. I could usually do GR2 levels like The Dam on Hard on Firefight with 140 enemies with just a gun and no explosives, no enemies on radar etc by myself. People leave the sessions because I'm the last one alive, usually I'd always have to blow myself up or make them wait 15 minutes as I finished the level alone.

Not like I'm talking myself up, but I'm just describing what type of gamer I am. I'm hardcore and tactical when it comes to missions, always using cover and progressing slowly.

I didn't enjoy SS as much online because I didn't enjoy how most maps only had around 24 enemies in Firefight mode, my favorite mode. For me that was like nothing. You have to take into account that I'm pretty much strictly a co-op gamer. (Firefight, Missions, etc...) They also made it a bit weird as far as difficulty. The enemies in SS were unrealistic (or maybe more realistic?) I dunno...but the fun factor was diminished when you're in a room with six other people and you only get to kill about 4 enemies a piece in Firefight and the round is over? I wished there could have been a balance more? I didn't mind the enemies spawning in GR2, I actually loved the number of enemies per map, it was more fun. As long as they don't spawn right infront of you where you see them appear. I wished SS was more like GR2 in that regard, but maybe with around 80-90 enemies per map instead of the 120 that GR2 would regularly feature.

I also disliked SS in those modes because on Hard it was unrealistic as far as being fun. The enemies spot you way too early and it's like they can shoot through any type of cover? They are behind five trees, across the map, and I'm moving from cover to cover and behind a huge rock and still I'm pinned down or taking hits through massive amounts of foliage? That aspect really hurt it for me as a tactical player. At least reward me with correct gameplay when I take my time. It was almost pointless to play correctly in some ways?

Edited by devilsgrin_6
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Due to the volume of information, we are going to put it out in pieces. During my long weekend, I plan to transcribe the interview. It then needs to be run by RSE and Ubi for approval, then we code it up and get it out to you. Start looking for stuff mid to end of next week. :thumbsup:

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I'd just like to point out that I wasn't being "sexist" when I made the comments about UbiSoft marketing to males. I was stating they marketed that angle just like companies always use hot girls or violence to appeal to guys.

I had somebody PM me over that (which seems kinda ridiculous to me), but nevertheless, I thought I should at least clear that up so there was no hard feelings. lol.

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Due to the volume of information, we are going to put it out in pieces.  During my long weekend, I plan to transcribe the interview.  It then needs to be run by RSE and Ubi for approval, then we code it up and get it out to you.  Start looking for stuff mid to end of next week. :thumbsup:

Will be looking forward to it, although after reading what you and the rest who visited RSE already said about it, my mind is already at ease.

God, i wish they did something like that for us europeans!!!!

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Will be looking forward to it, although after reading what you and the rest who visited RSE already said about it, my mind is already at ease.

God, i wish they did something like that for us europeans!!!!

I am sure GRIN would be more than willing to give you a show around their studios and possibly a sneak peak at GRAW for PC if you asked nicely.

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Will be looking forward to it, although after reading what you and the rest who visited RSE already said about it, my mind is already at ease.

God, i wish they did something like that for us europeans!!!!

I am sure GRIN would be more than willing to give you a show around their studios and possibly a sneak peak at GRAW for PC if you asked nicely.

i'll bet they get requests like that every day.

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I'm curious what are some of the differences between GRAW and say the multiplayer from GR2. I'm not talking about graphics or being able to customize your guy though. I'm talking about just gameplay. I know you have that birds-eye view on the side of your hud now but other than that is this basically GR2's multiplayer?

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well, everything sounds cool, if not a bit mysterious, but the stuff you have divulged has gotten me excited about this game all over again. i pick up my 360 on launch day, but really i am just waiting till feb. to play this game. Can you answer me this though. how much customization do you have with your weapon load out. that was one thing that always dissappointed me with GR. i would like to choose say an M4, but maybe i want a suppressor, or maybe a scope, foregrip etc. are those type of options in the game. thanks.

No one has answered this, and I would like to know the answer about weapon customization as well.

I would like the option of going out with an Aimpoint and forgrip, or going out with an ACOG and m203 based on the mission.

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well, everything sounds cool, if not a bit mysterious, but the stuff you have divulged has gotten me excited about this game all over again. i pick up my 360 on launch day, but really i am just waiting till feb. to play this game. Can you answer me this though. how much customization do you have with your weapon load out. that was one thing that always dissappointed me with GR. i would like to choose say an M4, but maybe i want a suppressor, or maybe a scope, foregrip etc. are those type of options in the game. thanks.

No one has answered this, and I would like to know the answer about weapon customization as well.

I would like the option of going out with an Aimpoint and forgrip, or going out with an ACOG and m203 based on the mission.

thanks, i just signed on to kinda bump my question, but see that you have already addressed it, i couldnt understand why no one would just say "i dont know, nobody knows" but then people keep asking the same da.m question about red and green outlines for the 100th time. Anyway i was playin on live the other night with my bud and we were doing recon, on hard, no enemies on radar, which i just love, cause you really have to sneak around and cover each other. but the real problem comes when you do have to engage the enemy. There is no real weapon loadout that they give you to properly get the job done with out alerting everyone on the map, I really want the option of deciding wheather i want a suppressor, large capapcity mag, all that stuff, fore grip etc,. Also, they need to make time of day an option, i still dont understand what is with all the missions, in open terrain with no cover being done at what looks like 1 pm in the afternoon, on a bright sunny day. i am specifically talking more about GR2 and GR2 SS here, but i hope these two options make it in the game, because i think they are very very necessary and would add a whole hell of alot to the replayablity of the game. but of course no one seems to know these things, and they seem like pretty big ones to me. anyway heres hoping

Edited by OPSIXDELTA
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An audio file, over 1 gigabyte in size needs to be transposed, and the report(s), need to written and coded. All this work is being done by people who have jobs, and families.

So patience is what is called for, everyone has to remember, none of the staff here is being paid to do any of this.

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Some of it cannot be released for public knowledge, yet. However, I am planning on having it as much of a "word for word" transcript as possible. For example, I will probably take out the discussion we had about Pete "The Looker" Sekula, as it has nothing to do with the game. :yes:

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Dude why not let us download the audio file. I for one would love to listen to it.

With a file that large, allowing public download of the whole thing, without some sort of management/compression, Rocky would be out two month's mortgage in hosting/bandwidth costs. :blink:

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