in g.r. world, ak47(7.62x39mm) vs. m16(.223cal)

[cajun47]

i know the difference in real life. ak47(7.62x39mm) has more penetration and knock down power up close. the m16 type guns that shoot .223 cal are smaller but shoot strighter and has less bullet drop.

does this apply in the game?

the ak74....i see it in many games. what cal. is it? .223?

[WhiteKnight77]

.223 is equal to 5.56mm which an M16/M4 uses.

[Copenhagen]

The AK74 is chambered in a 5.56mm X 39mm round/cartridge. "A shorter .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO)."

[Alfa FSB]

The AK74 is chambered in a 5.56mm X 39mm round/cartridge. "A shorter .223 Remington (5.56mm NATO)."

Actulay is 5.45x39mm.

[Parabellum]

.223 is equal to 5.56mm which an M16/M4 uses.

I'll be a smart-alec and poke my head in here to correct Mike: the .223 Remington is not actually the same cartridge as the 5.56mm NATO round. The headcase length on the 5.56mm round is longer, and it also operates at higher pressure levels than the .223 Remington round. As a result, rifles chambered for the .223 round can actually be damaged if you try to use 5.56mm ammunition. While most modern AR-15 weapons are actually chambered for the 5.56mm round, and thus capable of using either cartridge, the two should not be confused.

[Zantar45]

OK

7.62x39mm = velocity is around 2,000-2,400 F.P.S bullet energy is around 1,500 1,700 ft/lbs. 147 grain bullet

.223 = velocity is 2,900-3,400 F.P.S bullet energy is around 1,100-1,350 ft/lbs.50-75 grain bullet

The 7.63x39mm is a heavier bullet which is leathel out to more then 1,100 meters, the .223 is light shoots straighter. They both can penertrate body armor, the .223's bullet is essentially a .22 on steriods-of course there were minor mods done to it.

Ok, now 5.45x39mm

This round essentially was made during the cold war, the Soviets finally decieded to make their own lighter faster round. ( Some say they made the round so that if they ever fought the US, they could pick up ammo of dead US soldiers)

velocity 2,800 F.P.S and bullet energy is about 1,000-1,200ft/lbs, 70 grain bullet.

Just a little info to help clear things up.

[Jex]

There is no bullet drop in the game.

[Zantar45]

This link might help eleviate the problem. Click here

But not entirely

There is no bullet drop in the game.

I know, just like the sniper rifles dont zoom in as realisticly in the game as the do in real life.

Edited March 14, 2003 by Zantar45

[Copenhagen]

Actulay is 5.45x39mm.

I knew it didn't look right, thanks.

[Jex]

This link might help eleviate the problem. Click here

But not entirely

There is no bullet drop in the game.

I know, just like the sniper rifles dont zoom in as realisticly in the game as the do in real life.

Sorry that was for Cajun's original question - I didn't see it answered anywhere.

LOL short post i know - but i've been throwing up at work all day and that's all I could manage (see - even in my weakened state I still have an interests in your posts guys (and girls? Do we have any here at GR ))

J

[ZJJ]

(and girls? Do we have any here at GR  ))

I know of four that regularly visit/post here.... I know more are registered and may visit, but don't post often. For a couple of us, I wouldn't use the term "girl", though...

[Zantar45]

Ok I got side tracked, now to answer the original question.

i know the difference in real life. ak47(7.62x39mm) has more penetration and knock down power up close. the m16 type guns that shoot .223 cal are smaller but shoot strighter and has less bullet drop.

does this apply in the game?

the ak74....i see it in many games. what cal. is it? .223?

Ghost Recon has a funny hit detection system, sometimes you can shoot someone 5 times with the M82 Barrett light .50 and they live, but you can kill someone with 1-2 shoots in the leg with the M9 and kill'em.

Both rounds are lethal up close, infact any bullet is lethal.

Bullets do not drop in game, only difference between these 2 guns is ret size and ret spread speed when firing.

AK74 is chambered in 5.45x39mm, heres a pic of the AK74

and the ammo

And since Im a AK47 whore Click here to visit AK47.net

I own one, its been modified for semi only but its still as good as a full auto

Edited March 14, 2003 by Zantar45

[Streinger]

I saw a few posts here saying 5,56mm shoots streight and has low bullit drop.. now a friend of mine who was in the South African army (they use 5,56mm Vektor R-4, a Galil clone) told me that when shooting in savannah or in bushes, even a contact with thin branches or tall grass blades can change a trajectory of the bullit...I have very little expirience with 5,56mm..so any comment on that?

I have far more expirience with 7,62x39mm, and I can say it has tramendous penetration power. When in woods, taking cover behind any tree that's less then 1ft in diameter is no cover at all..it will go right trough it. That aspect is poorly represented in GR game...

[WhiteKnight77]

When in woods, taking cover behind any tree that's less then 1ft in diameter is no cover at all..it will go right trough it. That aspect is poorly represented in GR game...

That may be true for a round from an M60 (7.62) or an M2 (.50) but it is highly doubtful that a round from an M16 would go thru a tree. I shot a .30-30 into a tree about 5 inches in diameter and it was stopped bout half way thru (my cousin and I cut the tree down to see how far it did go in.) That shot was from about 30yds away.

The 5.56 NATO round is a typical ball round, but kinda tumbles (wobbles) thru the air on its path to a target. Hitting a branch can change that trajectory.

Now to put to bed the myth that rounds fly straight. They don't unless you are shooting at something within inches from the end of the barrel. Once a round leaves the barrel of a weapon the round rises (out to about 200yds for an M16) before it starts to drop again to to lack of energy/effects of gravity. They fly in an arc and not a straight line.

[Zantar45]

I dont know what type of barrel your using, but a .223 or 5.56 nato bullet doesnt tumble, it only tumbles when it enters a object-hence its lethality.

It makes a huge cavaty. 7.62mm bullets tend to tumble and break up inside of a person too.

ok I just notice you said wobbles,depending on the rifling on the barrel would make it wobble. just imagine it like a almost perfect spiral pass of a football.

Now bullets will penetrate trees, depending on the bullet,tree,thickness.

Hell, you can cut down trees and cinder block walls with a 30 round magazine.

There is hardly any adequate cover from gunfire, you can hide behind a tree and get hit, hide behind a car and the bullet will cut through it like a hot knife through butter and nail you. I got a chart showing the penertration power of several types of bullets. When I find them I will post them, i got a .223 one 7.62 one and .50 BMG one. *plus a few more*

[redneck]

While most modern AR-15 weapons are actually chambered for the 5.56mm round, and thus capable of using either cartridge, the two should not be confused.

I'll be a smart-ass too: there is essentially no practical difference between the two. Almost all sporting rifles (which include most AR variants) chambered for one are safe to shoot the other. If you walk into a gun store or gun show to buy .223, don't be surprised if they hand you some 5.56 NATO. It's basically the same stuff.

[Parabellum]

While most modern AR-15 weapons are actually chambered for the 5.56mm round, and thus capable of using either cartridge, the two should not be confused.

I'll be a smart-ass too: there is essentially no practical difference between the two. Almost all sporting rifles (which include most AR variants) chambered for one are safe to shoot the other. If you walk into a gun store or gun show to buy .223, don't be surprised if they hand you some 5.56 NATO. It's basically the same stuff.

If you say so.

[Copenhagen]

Once a round leaves the barrel of a weapon the round rises (out to about 200yds for an M16) before it starts to drop again to to lack of energy/effects of gravity. They fly in an arc and not a straight line.

Rifle rounds only "appear" to rise because you are compensating for gravity (and loss of bullet velocity) when aiming. Thus, the reason for the arc in a rounds trajectory. Even from a .300 Moose Juicer, the round only drops after leaving the barrel.

[Parabellum]

Once a round leaves the barrel of a weapon the round rises (out to about 200yds for an M16) before it starts to drop again to to lack of energy/effects of gravity. They fly in an arc and not a straight line.

Rifle rounds only "appear" to rise because you are compensating for gravity (and loss of bullet velocity) when aiming. Thus, the reason for the arc in a rounds trajectory. Even from a .300 Moose Juicer, the round only drops after leaving the barrel.

That's not true. Any bullet will rise somewhat in trajectory at some point, before succumbing to gravity.

[Copenhagen]

The headcase length on the 5.56mm round is longer, and it also operates at higher pressure levels than the .223 Remington round. As a result, rifles chambered for the .223 round can actually be damaged if you try to use 5.56mm ammunition. While most modern AR-15 weapons are actually chambered for the 5.56mm round, and thus capable of using either cartridge, the two should not be confused.

A longer headcase won't damage the chamber/bolt since the bullet goes into the barrel. The bullet may "operate" at higher chamber pressures, but that shouldn't affect a modern good working firearm. Winchester, Remington, Browning, ect. wouldn't manufacture a rifle that would "break" from a bullet with higher chamber pressures. Many people handload their rounds, some that I'm sure would put more alot abuse in the rifle than a 5.56mm NATO round. And I've heard of hunters buying surplus 5.56mm NATO ammunition, hunting with it, and coming home with their rifles safe by their side.

[Copenhagen]

That's not true. Any bullet will rise somewhat in trajectory at some point, before succumbing to gravity.

.... From the shooter, tilting the front of the rifle up (or back down), and shooting. Rounds only drop after leaving the barrel, they have nothing to "push" them up.

[Zantar45]

Copenhagen Posted on Mar 15 2003, 05:20

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QUOTE (Parabellum @ Mar 14 2003, 08:58 )

The headcase length on the 5.56mm round is longer, and it also operates at higher pressure levels than the .223 Remington round. As a result, rifles chambered for the .223 round can actually be damaged if you try to use 5.56mm ammunition. While most modern AR-15 weapons are actually chambered for the 5.56mm round, and thus capable of using either cartridge, the two should not be confused.

A longer headcase won't damage the chamber/bolt since the bullet goes into the barrel. The bullet may "operate" at higher chamber pressures, but that shouldn't affect a modern good working firearm. Winchester, Remington, Browning, ect. wouldn't manufacture a rifle that would "break" from a bullet with higher chamber pressures. Many people handload their rounds, some that I'm sure would put more alot abuse in the rifle than a 5.56mm NATO round. And I've heard of hunters buying surplus 5.56mm NATO ammunition, hunting with it, and coming home with their rifles safe by their side.

The .223 is exactly the same round as 5.56mm, NATO renames bullets to their measurments, hence the 9mm being called 9x19mm and the .380 being called 9x17mm.Some people get the .223 confused with the .222 super which is the same size as a .223 so instead of people accidently putting .222 supers in their .223 guns, the round was renamed to .223 winchester and NATO changed it to 5.56mm .

You can put high pressure bullets in your rifles, but if it exceeds a certain limit it may cause fractures in your weapons barrel if it doesnt blow up on you.

The wind speed can cause bullets to lose speed,height, accuracy depending on how far of a shot is being made. Its not uncommon for a bullet to rise up SLIGHTLY from is point of impact because of the wind, any spotter would tell you that.

But hey, I could be wrong, everyone has the internet, it shouldnt be too hard to visit a long range shooting website, or a website devoted to sniping/snipers. One of my favs is snipercountry.

later

[Streinger]

When in woods, taking cover behind any tree that's less then 1ft in diameter is no cover at all..it will go right trough it. That aspect is poorly represented in GR game... 

That may be true for a round from an M60 (7.62) or an M2 (.50) but it is highly doubtful that a round from an M16 would go thru a tree. I shot a .30-30 into a tree about 5 inches in diameter and it was stopped bout half way thru (my cousin and I cut the tree down to see how far it did go in.) That shot was from about 30yds away.

I was talking about 7,62x39mm..the AK-47 round. When practice shooting, we would pin the target up on a tree and fire from 100m distance (roughly 110yds). The tree was some 20cm in diameter (8''), and the rifle was M-70 7,62mm (AK-47 clone). The bulit not only passed trough a tree, it went and hit a bank a few meters behind with such a force we could see dirt and dead leaves fly up in the air.

[redneck]

That's not true.  Any bullet will rise somewhat in trajectory at some point, before succumbing to gravity.

Basic physics: the bullet will start to fall as soon as it leaves the muzzle. Since it does not have an airfoil, there's nothing to make it rise, except the inclination of the barrel.

There's a classic physics riddle concerning this: in an ideal world (vacuum, no curvature of the earth), if you fire a gun and drop a bullet on the ground at the exact moment the fired bullet leaves the muzzle, which will hit the ground first? Answer: they both hit the ground at the same time.

Bullets appear to rise because the barrel is inclined upward to hit a distant target. Think of the trajectory of artillery, only more compressed.

"Point blank" refers to a distance from target such that the barrel does not have to be inclined upward to hit it. According to Galileo and Newton, there's really no such thing as "point blank," except at the muzzle. But for practical purposes "point blank" will vary depending on the weapon and ballistic characteristics.

This notion of rising bullets is one of the more common myths about shooting, the other most widespread one being that bullets (especially the 5.56 NATO) are designed to tumble in flight.

[redneck]

The .223 is exactly the same round as 5.56mm

This is not true either. As Parabellum said, there are differences. In fact, SAAMI (the people who maintain cartridge standards) warn against intermixing the two:

http://www.saami.org/unsafe3.htm

However, despite SAAMI's warnings (publishing warnings like that is one of their jobs), there is no important practical difference between the two cartridges, nothing the typical shooter needs to worry about. They are fully interchangeable in almost all modern sporting rifles chambered for one or the other.