GRAW: last, best hope for game inovation.

[Poita]

I just got through trying out Call of Duty 2.

Of course the graphics are ace and there are a few nice touches but jeeeezus. It's just COD1 witha lick of paint. Have game companies just given up when it comes to inovation?

I expect GRAW to be quite fresh and interesting as far as the little details go towards creating a real 'like i'm there' experience.

COD2 is a cinematic no brainer shoot em up i realize that but i actually stopped playing after the first mission and probably won't bother again. I had a look at some of the mp maps and half of them are re do's of the previous game.

GRAW (see, i'm keeping it on topic) will have that great GR feel to it i hope. I think GR1 was a huge leap as far as game inovation went at the time. There isn't any one huge thing you could point out but it just had that great re play (4 years and counting now) value. GRAW will build on that i hope and not slide into the lowest common denomenator pleasing mindset that every single game seems to be in at the moment.

I'm starting to despair for a good online game and seeing Call of Doody doesnt give me much hope.

Come on GRAW, show em how it's done.

[el nino foxhound]

I know how you feel.

I just finished playing the first 5 minutes of quake 4. And my god, this sucks.

I have never ever played a quake game before but why people buy this?

I started the game, looked at the intro, got a go in the first mission, and deleted it without even bothering to go inside the first building.

If quake 4 is an example of what we GR players/addicts can expect for future games I give up, will buy me a comic book or something, that has far more rereadability compared to the replayability of any of these modern games being released.

Common GRAW, show them how its done.

Anyone else tried another game? Leave your comparisson here. GRIN is reading you know.

Just a topic with more of the same ######.........

[Cutter]

Call of Doody

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I've tried a few games since the original GR and nothing compares IMO, First to Fight, COD, RvS, Battlefield Vietnam, none has held my attention for more than a month (if that).

GRIN is going to give us what we are looking for, I have faith.

[Sup]

I just finished playing the first 5 minutes of quake 4. And my god, this sucks.

I have never ever played a quake game before but why people buy this?

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While Quake4 isn't the best example, it's a good game.

One doesn't need tactics and realism for quality, save in the tactical shooter genre. I'm sure many people wuld say the same about GR.

[Stig]

Yeah GR1 was a huge step & still nothing compares.

I stopped playing Compter games (about 8months agofor awhile because my PC was struggling & needs an update & after the GR2 fiasco I just lost the will to play games. SWAT held my attention for a little while but My PC was struggling too much & although it was the closest thing to what I like in GR it wasn't the same.

any how I started looking for a good game & found absolutely nothing that took my fancy. So I thought I'd play through the GR, DS & IT campaigns again.

Man it's a good game. Even though it's years old & yes the graphics are looking sub standard now It's still the best game out there by a mile.

I'm very much looking forward to Grins offering as it seems to me these guys can see what made GR so fresh & why it stood out from the crowd.

Go GRIN

[SteelHack]

I just got through trying out Call of Duty 2.

Of course the graphics are ace and there are a few nice touches but jeeeezus. It's just COD1 with a lick of paint.

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Here is hoping GRAW falls into that category...LOL GR1 with a coat of paint.

HACK

[el nino foxhound]

I just finished playing the first 5 minutes of quake 4. And my god, this sucks.

I have never ever played a quake game before but why people buy this?

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While Quake4 isn't the best example, it's a good game.

One doesn't need tactics and realism for quality, save in the tactical shooter genre. I'm sure many people wuld say the same about GR.

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You didnt get the point of my post.

I like COD and COD2, he doesnt like that but maybe he likes quake.

I dont like COD for its realism, I like it for firing like 1000000000000 bullets during a weekend and than shelve the game.

Just showing what has become of this GRAW discussion, completely not making sense all the same no new info keep saying the same stuff in different topics to get your post count up ###### (some interesting stuff not counted )..............And no, I wont stop reading.

[calius]

Yep ... everything so far is pure turd.

I went out and got San Andreas .. dont laugh, purely for the fun of it and it kills time racing around, but that game just does what it says on the tin and you expect it. Mind you saying that, at least its more open ended than some games ...LOL.

A few things I got excited about a while back ended up the same old same old.

Im not buying any more games now. Im happy with the the simple few I have IL2 FB & expansions / GR1 & expansions / San Andreas for fun.

Graw is the only thing, the ONLY thing as games are concerned that I am looking at and sniffing around.

VBS1 etc looks mighty fine I just dont have the pennies / I need money of that amount for other things currently, otherwise that would be something I would spend on.

Its like the cinema ... ###### all thats holding my attention at the moment.

[JFSebastian]

I also have played COD Farcry (not bad actually) AA and just finished FEAR, and have to agree with you guys 100%, i guess if GRAW doesnt cut it I am going to have to take up online poker!!

[KRP 56]

So I thought I'd play through the GR, DS & IT campaigns again.

Man it's a good game.   Even though it's years old & yes the graphics are looking sub standard now It's still the best game out there by a mile.

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How very very true.

[Poita]

Oh yeah i forgot 'FEAR'. I also stopped playing that after a few levels. Sure it's upped the ante on graphics (in some ways) but how come every single game like that seems to be just hopping from room to room and shooting. There is just nothing to think about.

Help me GRIN, you're my only hope.

[Razors-3Dge]

I got to disagree with what you said about COD2 poita, Have you viewed how the AI move and interact with each other the world and with you? I have played the demo 5 times and each time my team and the enemy do different things, yes I know there are some areas where its the same but you need that to keep the game moving at a good pace. Also the audio is very much updated.

Now I quote you " GRAW (see, I’m keeping it on topic) will have that great GR feel to it I hope." is this not what you hate about Call of Duty because it feels the same?

Now I am a Fan of both games series, so don’t get me wrong there. One last thing is, one is Tactical and the other is cinematic.

Ok so I want to hear back from you and everyone, and please keep it professional, I am tired of conversation turning into flaming like at other sites.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Razors-3Dge

[Poita]

Hey Razor.

Don't worry, i'm happy to have someone dissagree with me. I never flame back. I don't to go off on someone if they write some kind of personal attack but a well t hought out dissent is always good to read.

I agree that COD2 is cinematic rather than strategic. I just feel that HL2, COD, FEAR and all the rest just drone on and on and on with the same gameplay. Run to area, shoot at guys, kill them, move on repeat ad naseum. Ok that's fun i admit but when it goes on for level after level after level, game after game after game.

Actually playing the demo of COD2 and now the game i couldn't help 1. thinking how amazing it would look if i had a better system. 2. the controls are very nice, especially the lean and the 'hold breath' sniper steady move. 3. Atmospheric smoke dift and snow etc is mind blowing. 4. Gun play is actually very very nice . . . . .but at the end of it all is just scripted (ok with some AI variation) scenes to play in that are just so repetitive.

I feel that if the mp maps were bigger and had a little better vegitation and the game was a bit less cinematic like then COD2 could be a very excellent WW2 'Ghost Recon' like game.

[pz3]

darkages in gaming IMO

companies keep making clones of one or another or newer versions of there old games, well guess what.... thats the same games over and over with a new coat of paint.

there has been a lost in creative talent IMO.... seriously the only game that has impressed me latey like no others is god of war wich is a ps2 title...

cant think of many more.

[Razors-3Dge]

Oww Poite, i smell a GRAW mod idea.

Anywho yes i agree that many fps games are clones of one another adn they have the same linear design in the worlds. Thats one reason why i got BAttlefield2 and no other FPS game since...COD1 lol. I also share your hope that GRIN can deliver what we all want.

What we need is for the FPS creators to switch to full tactical shooters.

[Ghost_Zulu]

Oww Poite, i smell a GRAW mod idea. 

Anywho yes i agree that many fps games are clones of one another adn they have the same linear design in the worlds. Thats one reason why i got BAttlefield2 and no other FPS game since...COD1 lol.  I also share your hope that GRIN can deliver what we all want.

What we need is for the FPS creators to switch to full tactical shooters.

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Everyone here has made valid points, I like the games that have recently been released. Fear, COD2 and I purchased Quake 4 and I can't believe Raven Software is still in buisness after creating such atrosities in one game.

I think the problem with the gameing market, is that one game maker makes a popular title and everyone else jumps on the ban wagon. W2 games have been made over and over because they bring revenue. Untill we the gamers stop buying, the Developers will continue to create on demand.

Some developers are afraid to try something new, because it requires financial backing and a very strict deadline on when the game must ship. Great games are made by the little guys, but then they need to find a publisher, which turns into a leech and before you know it, those brilliant programmers are under jurisdiciton of the publishers rules and time line.

Straight to the bone military games have tried to surface, OPF, Soldner and maybe a few others. They tend to go south, when players like us that strive to play the realistic games find the servers empty, because most consumers don't like reality games, because it requires more than just button smashing to win, so they don't buy them and developers stop making them.

Face it, were into the year 2005 and not much has made leaps and bounds, we'll still be having this conversation in the year 2027, if we live that long that is.

[Poita]

It's a pity about Soldner. You could feel they were trying real hard but i think they just didnt have the talent to pull it off. I hope they don't give up though. OFP was great in single player but kind of sucked in mp cause the net code was pretty awful and it was crap to be in servers with only a hand full of players on massive islands.

Man there have been soooo many military games released in the last two or three years and most of them just can't seem to get it right. Just a few things can ruin a game. If GRAW is just GR1 with a lick of paint i'll be happy.

By the way the Halloween titles for this site look pretty ace. I recon you should keep em up all year round or at least for the rest of the year like some lazy people leave their Christmas decorations up for ages

[stevenmu]

Personally I think the reason for the lack of innovation is easy to see, especially on these forums. Even within this one thread we have people complaining about the lack of innovation in other games with one breath, and then praying that GRAW will be exactly like GR with a facelift with the next. Every time a detail has been revealed which would make GRAW different to GR, people have threatened to boycott the game, or even all Ubi games, because of it.

Why bother being innovative if any time you try, all your customers threaten to leave ?

[Kurtz]

The lack of innovation refers to the plethora of single character, linear, heavily scripted, repetitive arcade games flooding the market. GR had the innovative features that are lacking in all the games coming out, I look for the GR features in other combat shooters and fail to find any. The basic structure of GR was fine - multiple squads, character switching, waypoints, ROE's, just add the new graphic engine, maps, misions, new features and we are good to go. That is what GR with a paint job means to me.

Edited November 4, 2005 by Kurtz

[=warcloud=]

The way the characters move in Ghost recon advanced warfighter reminds me of brothers in arms road to hill 30. GR:AW will be like BIA RTH30 but modern combat of course, nothing spectacular and it will be no different from any other 3d game and i bet you will have to have a beafy pc to play it in all of it's glory. Looking forward to playing graw though.

[Sup]

The lack of innovation refers to the plethora of single character, linear, heavily scripted, repetitive arcade games flooding the market. GR had the innovative features that are lacking in all the games coming out, I look for the GR features in other combat shooters and fail to find any. The basic structure of GR was fine - multiple squads, character switching, waypoints, ROE's, just add the new graphic engine, maps, misions, new features and we are good to go. That is what GR with a paint job means to me.

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Innovative is somewhat misleading. While it was, yes, it wasn't something bringing out a new direction for shooters. Merely a different one.

There will be games with GR's features, and there will be 'linear, heavily scripted, repetitive arcade games'.

And there will be great games of both sorts. Shooters, and tactical shooters.

[Kurtz]

"There will be games with GR's features, and there will be 'linear, heavily scripted, repetitive arcade games'.

And there will be great games of both sorts. Shooters, and tactical shooters."

I used to think that too, but, now, after 4 years, I say, where are they? Lots of arcade shooters, but, no games like GR.

[Poita]

Stevenmu,

The point about us not really minding if GRAW is pretty much the same as GR1 is that we consider it to be somewhat in the neighborhood of 'ideal' as far as a game experience goes. All the rest are below the line of what can grab our attention and passion.

If we balk at the idea of certain 'new' features in GRAW it's not because we don't like inovation. It's because in those particular cases we thought they were inovating in a downward direction. Not all change is good, change for the better is good.

If GRAW were 'inovated' into being another FEAR, HL2 etc then we'd rather it stuck to what made GR so great.

Also, in a way if you take an idea game such as GR1 and just update the physics and look/sound of the world such as add a roll when prone then those little touches to make the world more real can be considered inovation even though the basic game remains the same. I guess you could call it 'tweaking'.

[stevenmu]

Yeah, I see you point here, and thinking about it, some of the 'innovations' of GR2 really didn't appeal to me. But mainly the way I look at it is that we all had favourite games before GR, when GR came out it was an innovation we all loved (altough I suppose it could be said it was just a mix of R6 and Delta Force). Given the amount of time that has passed since GR, I think we need innovation to keep the series alive, as long as it's innovation in the right direction of course . I think things like the cross-com, UAVs, air-strikes, advanced leaning/diving/sliding, dynamic squad assignments, guns cams and even possibly the dreaded red diamonds could, if done correctly, add hugely to the game.

[whoa182]

i actually stopped playing after the first mission and probably won't bother again.

Yeah riiiiigghtttt Call of duty2 was a good game for what it was. No point in comparing to other style games... You just enjoy it for what it is. I think it's a damn good game, you can play it fast paced or slow, your choice.

lack of innovation

That is EXACTLY what you will see with ghost recon 3 if some people around here had their way.... think about it Just look back on the forums and you will see that Ghost Recon fans hardly wanted anything changed from the original, only updated graphics or something.

Quake 4 crap?

This again was a brilliant Single player game. Infact one of the best games i've played on the pc in a while!

I think things like the cross-com, UAVs, air-strikes, advanced leaning/diving/sliding, dynamic squad assignments, guns cams and even possibly the dreaded red diamonds could, if done correctly, add hugely to the game

I agree, the title of the game matches what we will see in the game. Hence the word "ADVANCED". This is about future war and that's what ghost recon has always been about. If you want a pre 21st century game then GR is not what you are after, from the get go GR was about an advanced tactical team using the latest equipment. GR is just staying true to what it was at the start! The new systems they have put in the game sound like a great tactical addition.

Edited November 5, 2005 by whoa182