TAlking damage and health bar

[Razors-3Dge]

I for one hate health bars and how almost every game has it. Also I hate it how you can shot someone in the foot and kill them. WE all are aware of the issue, so I can’t only hope that GRIN will too. I hope they keep the damage system that’s in GR in GR2 but more advanced.

Like who here has seen the movie, "The Rock" ok so one scene one dude is in a firefight with another, so he dives for the floor and takes out the mans feet from under the table. The man falls and then gets shot in the head.

Ok so it would be cool if depending where you get shot your body reacts to it, like leg shots you fall, depending on where you are shot in the leg. Arm shots will make you step back from impact or drop the weapon. Chest shots would depend on where you are shot, lungs, stoic, kidneys, etc and that would effect how you move in the world.

I hope you guys see where I am going, now I do know that this will require allot of code. But it would be well worth it. I believe it would set a standard for tactical shooters and get rid of those who like the blitz like Rambo.

A major problem in games is how the user feels in the game, my goal in a game is to make the player feel as they are that man in the game and that is there only life, just as in real life. I want the player to fighthard to not get killed, this would require alot of stelth and cautious movement, and hopefly squad tactics.

Ok well i want feedback so plz reply.

Edited October 26, 2005 by Razors-3Dge

[pz3]

AA foot shot turns you red,

headshot turns u bleeding green, it ###### me off.

some major issues in that game

[BornToKill]

Americas Army, common you should know shooting a 'Grunt' in the head doesn't affect him, there's nothing there.

[calius]

Yep, very good points.

To know that if your too casual with cover or placement you will get pinged and delayed to shoot back in the ways you describe would certainly make you "think" more, and bring something into focus alot more than other games have nailed & thats situational awareness and planning.

Its an extension of the idea of weapon jamming, it might be a good alternative to that in some ways.

I would like to see that for sure.

How it could be implemented, and the trade off with performance and coding issues isnt my place to say. It would realy make me "feel" that as a mission starts I better be carefull from the get-go.

Edited October 26, 2005 by calius

[joka]

In GR1 I liked how they incorporated "combat incapacitated", meaning you didn't necessarily "die" from one bullet to a seemingly unvital bodypart, but you might have become combat incapacitated so you couldn't keep on fighting.

As long as they don't make it like every other FPS game out there, where two elite soldiers walk in to a room with automatic assault rifles, open fire, the other soldier runs out of bullets half way through so he does what all elite soldiers do while taking fire from a distance of 2m, he starts jumping up and down while reloading.

That's just a example of how it shouldn't end up.

Summa summarum, one bullet from an assault rifle should either kill or wound the opponent.

[Razors-3Dge]

OMG dude i know, i do it myself only because it works, thats where a pistol fight comes out or a knife battle. ooo pistol battle GR....memories.

But ya my idea for a game is to make the gamer feel every bullet.

[Crimson]

OMG dude i know, i do it myself only because it works, thats where a pistol fight comes out or a knife battle.  ooo pistol battle GR....memories. 

But ya my idea for a game is to make the gamer feel every bullet.

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That would be quite painful.

[Razors-3Dge]

lol not for real.

i hope GRIN are reading this, *hi im razor* hire me, lol.

[desertranger12]

Americas Army, common you should know shooting a 'Grunt' in the head doesn't affect him, there's nothing there. 

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is any one else offended?

[BornToKill]

guess not, seems most people have a sense of humor.

[ETE_Ed]

In GR1 I liked how they incorporated "combat incapacitated", meaning you didn't necessarily "die" from one bullet to a seemingly unvital bodypart, but you might have become combat incapacitated so you couldn't keep on fighting.

As long as they don't make it like every other FPS game out there, where two elite soldiers walk in to a room with automatic assault rifles, open fire, the other soldier runs out of bullets half way through so he does what all elite soldiers do while taking fire from a distance of 2m, he starts jumping up and down while reloading.

That's just a example of how it shouldn't end up. 

Summa summarum, one bullet from an assault rifle should either kill or wound the opponent.

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The current bodyarmour can suffer multiple (8 to 12) NATO7.62 rounds before "breaking". This means .. you get shot in the chest take cover and continue to fight. Some bruises and at worst a fractured rib is the damage you take...

I like the new bleeding system in AA. If you get shot in the leg you start to bleed. If you get shot in the leg one more time it doesn't do much more damage.. (your leg is mess anyway) but it adds to the bleeding.. so you bleed out (or atleast longer).

[buddhiraja73]

I am looking forward to a realistic damage system for the player as well as the bots.

- If I shoot an enemy in the arm, his aim would be affected provided he is fit enough to hold his rifle. If his arm is badly damaged, he would throw down his rifle because he cannot take the load. Maybe he would prefer a pistol then.

- A moderate leg injury would make the enemy limp but in case it is severe, he would sit down or drag himself to cover. He would still try to shoot.

-No health bars.

- An injured enemy who is still able to move and shoot, would show some difference in behavior compared to a healthy one. A severely injured enemy, who is still conscious, would behave further differently.

I am not planning to buy the AGEIA card as soon as it comes out. So, that means I will have to be dependent on Havoc physics. How will the reaction of the bots be like when I shoot them ? Will their body move according to the place where it has been hit, while using Havoc physics ? e.g- a hit to the left shoulder will make the left side of the body go back. Will the bullet holes be generic or will they vary according to how the bullet hits the surface. ? I hope they will be reasonably realistic.

[Colin]

Americas Army, common you should know shooting a 'Grunt' in the head doesn't affect him, there's nothing there. 

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Classic.

Health Bars ok if it doesn`t get in the way.

Colin

[Razors-3Dge]

Very good points buddhiraja73, thats what i am think and hoping for in GRAW from GRIN. I can only hope. Get this, when bf2 shipped i was convinced that it was the best tactical shooter ever, not so. I like the game and play it, but i want better killdamage. That and how you move in the world are VERY important to me, moreso then the visuals.

[Stig]

buddhiraja73 .... Agreed

This would be totaly awsome if that kinda damage/reaction model was implemented however I'd be suprised. To get the movement realistic for a healthy soldier is hard enough let alone taking every possible hit & multiple hits into account.

Ok you could have one set of animations/AI movements for a guy hit in the leg. What will happen is he will start limping or maybe have to crouch & drag his leg suporting his weight with his arms. then he get hit in the arm or other leg etc....

what I'm trying to say is the number of combinations is massive & even if you narrow it down to something basic to a hit in left leg, right leg, Left arm, Right arm, Neck, Body. Ok thats 6 possible locations you need to cover (I excluded headshot as you should be dead or dazed) which by my calculations is 126. Now multiply the number of animations/AI models movements for a healthy soldier by 127 (126 + 1 for the healthy guy)

Now I know the object/Ai model would be designed to work out alot of the combinations itself but I guess I'm just trying to point out it's alot more complicated that it first seems. It is possible but it would take alot of work.

anyhow I'd be happy as pig in poo if it was that clever but for now I'd settle for limping & droping the weapon.

[ROCO*AFZ*]

buddhiraja73 .... Agreed

This would be totaly awsome if that kinda damage/reaction model was implemented however I'd be suprised. To get the movement realistic for a healthy soldier is hard enough let alone taking every possible hit & multiple hits into account. 

Ok you could have one set of animations/AI movements for a guy hit in the leg. What will happen is he will start limping or maybe have to crouch & drag his leg suporting his weight with his arms. then he get hit in the arm or other leg etc....

what I'm trying to say is the number of combinations is massive & even if you narrow it down to something basic to a hit in left leg, right leg, Left arm, Right arm, Neck, Body.  Ok thats 6 possible locations you need to cover (I excluded headshot as you should be dead or dazed) which by my calculations is 126. Now multiply the number of animations/AI models movements for a healthy soldier by 127 (126 + 1 for the healthy guy)

Now I know the object/Ai model would be designed to work out alot of the combinations itself but I guess I'm just trying to point out it's alot more complicated that it first seems. It is possible but it would take alot of work.

anyhow I'd be happy as pig in poo if it was that clever but for now I'd settle for limping & droping the weapon.

Actually from what i understand it's not hard do to havok physics. That is what the rag doll effect is. You get shot in the arm your arm moves back. This isn't GR1 with animated wounds due to an outdated engine... this is a newer physics engine