Jump to content

No wonder gas prices are high


Parabellum
 Share

Recommended Posts

@ dickie - your 100% right m8. Just got back from the US and filling up an entire car was next to nothing compared to what it costs me at the moment, which is currently around £50 for a full tank of petrol which equates to about £75-$85!!!!

But if you are looking at earning a bit of extra cash, go invest in some ozzy bush land. Aparantly they reckon there is the potential for mass amounts of oil there. Could be worth a bob or two to you if you are lucky.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to U.S. Census data, the price of the average home in Los Angeles is up 112% in the past five years, 106% in Miami and 91% in New York. Meanwhile, unleaded gasoline futures traded at the New York Mercantile Exchange are up only around 85%.

By the logic of consumers calling for the heads of oil company executives, home-builders and real estate brokers ought to be on the hot seat, too. The fact that all wrath is directed toward energy producers shows a bubbling hostility for the boom-and-bust dynamics of capitalism among those who feel left out of the rising tide of economic growth.

Hate the game ... not the playa :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

According to U.S. Census data, the price of the average home in Los Angeles is up 112% in the past five years, 106% in Miami and 91% in New York. Meanwhile, unleaded gasoline futures traded at the New York Mercantile Exchange are up only around 85%.

By the logic of consumers calling for the heads of oil company executives, home-builders and real estate brokers ought to be on the hot seat, too. The fact that all wrath is directed toward energy producers shows a bubbling hostility for the boom-and-bust dynamics of capitalism among those who feel left out of the rising tide of economic growth.

Hate the game ... not the playa :thumbsup:

I'm not sure where the US census is getting its information, but the figures posted are dubious at best. When my wife and I got married six years ago, 87-grade gasoline was about $1.00 per gallon here. Now it's over $3.00 here. That's a 200% increase - a far cry from the 85% quoted. Further, real estate compared with gasoline is a faulty comparison. Real estate sales largely benefit the consumers - individual people who are selling homes, and buying for an investment. Gasoline is a limited-use product; it has no resale value for the consumer, it builds no equity, and cannot be upgraded over time, like real estate can. Individuals who purchase a home today can count on the value of their home rising in the future, securing greater financial assets and stability.

The fact that all wrath is directed toward energy producers shows a bubbling hostility for the boom-and-bust dynamics of capitalism among those who feel left out of the rising tide of economic growth.

Umm... how about the fact that gasoline has tripled in price, whereas a great many other products have not? Bread has not tripled in price. Milk has not tripled in price. Meat, eggs, and rice have not tripled in price. All of these, for lack of a better term, little things, have stayed largely static over the past five years. My sentiments have nothing to do with feeling "left out of the rising tide of economic growth". My sentiments have to do with price-gouging by an industry very aware that we, as a whole, have no other recourse than to buy their product. I'll reiterate: Go to the grocery store, and look at the prices of various products. Find out what they were five or six years ago. Now look at the price of gasoline, and find out what the price was during the same period. You will find that gasoline has increased in price at a rate several times that of other products.

Edited by Parabellum
Link to comment
Share on other sites

so when are we going to be drilling in alaska

When the West have bled dry the Iraqi Oil fields.

Give it another 10 years and Oil will probably be worth more than Gold.

With current Hydrogen Fueled cars costing nigh on $1 million to purchase let alone the cost of producing Hydrogen from sea water.It's gonna be a long haul if you like to drive ya ass about.

Guess who will be processing Hyrogen fuels in the future? Yup those huge companies reaping in the huge profits on Oil today.

Current predictions based on present growth of developing Nations and current consumptions in the developed World we have about 20yrs until the planets Oil reserves run out.Maybe less.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Apparently the Falklands are on top of a potentially huge reserve of oil, so maybe thats the place to be drilling?

Talking to some economics students at my college the other day about oil prices etc, and they are being taught that oil prices will go down again! So no need to worry guys! When questioned about the logic of this view, they stated that the trends show that when oil prices go up for a short time, they always drop back to the level they were at before! Now this is really funny, because in my Geology course we were also looking at oil/gas etc. There are 3 stages of pumping, primary, secondary and tertiary:

Primary - the oil/gas is under pressure, so just drill down and it will pump itself out so-to-speak.

Secondary - when the pressure is no longer sufficient you can use machinery to pump out the oil/gas.

Tertiary - when there is so little left, you need to pump water down to force the oil/gas out.

With me so far? Good:

Now, the last few rises in oil prices have been when we moved from the primary stage to the secondary. Prices rose as the oil stopped pumping itself out, but then it became economically viable to pump it out instead, and thus prices dropped. The next rise came as we moved from Secondary stage to the Tertiary stage, as the oil that could be pumped out ran out, but again it was then economically viable to pump water down to force out the oil. Now thats running out, and prices are rising, but there is nothing left! I was then told that this was nonsense, as the econimics lecturer bloke has told them the prices will go down again, as they always have done. I was then shown an article in an economists paper saying the same thing. Why can't they get their heads round the fact that theres almost nothing left?! So now we have a generation of economists who instead of saying "Hey guys, we really should find some other form of energy." are saying "Don't worry! Don't change anything it will be alright!!"

Dickie.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Economists always rely on historical data to predict the future, that's why. They look at what has happened before, and expect the same thing to happen again - not taking into account all of the other extraneous circumstances. The computer models used for stock-market trading are exactly the same. They all assume that dice have a memory, so you'll roll the same as you did before.

Kind of ironic that economists, of all people, don't seem to grasp the principle of supply and demand though... No way is the price of oil going to fall - at least, not by a significant amount, and not on anything other than a very short-term basis. The simple fact is that the quantity of oil on the planet is finite (and dwindling), and the demand for it across the world is growing, particularly in rapidly developing economies such as China. Supply is falling, demand is skyrocketing. Go figure.

You can argue that more oil reserves can be (and are being) discovered, to boost supply. But data on global oil reserves is sketchy at best. The OPEC nations' quotas are based on their oil reserves, so it's in their interest to claim inflated figures for oil reserves, because it allows them to pump more out of the ground. A very interesting article I read (here) shows how some countries' stated oil reserves have massively increased (more than doubled in some cases) over time (the comparison was of stated reserves in the 1970s and the 1990s), in spite of the number of barrels they've pumped out of the ground every day...

Oil is not going to get any cheaper, and we have absolutely no idea how close we are to running out. The only way you're going to pay less for your petrol is if governments change their taxation policies on fuel (which, in the UK at least, accounts for something like 60% of the price of petrol at the pump). But rest assured, government policy won't change either - it would cost their economy too much money (in lost tax revenue), and they want petrol prices to remain high to drive development of non-fossil-fuel-based power/fuel technologies for environmental reasons as well as because of diminishing oil reserves.

And of course it's the oil companies who are developing hydrogen fuel cell technologies etc - what other private companies have the resources to finance such a huge R&D budget?? They're the only people who make enough money to be able to afford to do it...

Edited by Gav80
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good post Gav80. :thumbsup:

The Saudis claims to oil reserves are 30yrs old, and somehow the reserves never seem to shrink. :whistle:

On another note, I don't have a problem with oil company profits being at record levels. If you look at profit margins, historically oil companies weigh in on the lower end of the spectrum.

Why is it that miners of metals, coal, certain farm/animal products can turn record profits in any given year and it NEVER makes headlines.

All of this is nothing but a witch hunt driven by a bunch of ecoweenie anti oil lobbyists.

Nobody forces anyone to buy a bigger home that costs more money to heat and cool than driving a Hummer H2 everyday to work. Nobody forces people to buy an SUV that gets 12 MPG. This is a free market right? Don't like the gas prices? Buy a more sensible and efficient home. A family of four does not NEED a six bedroom home. :rolleyes: A single person does not NEED to drive a Suburban to work everyday.

Fact: Buying smaller homes that do not have excess unused bedrooms would reduce our fuel comsuption by more than 10%.

It is supremely hypocritical for hollywood stars to buy a hybrid and preach using less fuel to reduce our dependence on foreign oil, when their 30,000+ square foot mansions use more energy than it takes to fuel three FULL SIZE SUVs that are driven everyday. :rolleyes:

It is a free market, and as far as I can see people are getting what they want, and what they deserve. Next on the list of events is people that live on credit will go under from the burden of debt. The big question is will this cause a severe recession? If our economy does go down, again, the free market is working well, as all of the credit mongers will indeed get what they deserve.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You guys complaining about fuel? Try paying UK prices! Almost £1 a litre now! Anyone on your side of the pond want to bulk buy and ship it to me please? :P

@ dickie - your 100% right m8.  Just got back from the US and filling up an entire car was next to nothing compared to what it costs me at the moment, which is currently around £50 for a full tank of petrol which equates to about £75-$85!!!!
Most of that cost is taxes! 60% of the cost of fuel in Britain is tax. Your fuel prices can be blamed directly on your damn government. Don't whine to Americans. We're getting screwed by taxes too, just not quite as badly as you. So instead of telling Americans how good we have it (when we're both getting screwed every time we get gas), how about you complain to your government?

Can everyone tell I'm really sick of hearing the price of gas in Britain compaired to the price of gas in America? Like some other schmuck paying more than me is going to make me happier to get screwed. :wall:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The reason oil fields are only predicted to have 30 years or so left is because the amount of money it costs to find new fields. The Directors and shareholders are just there to line their pockets while they are in power so they don't expect to have to look for me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exxon posts the highest US quarterly gross profit ever, at $9.9B.  That's in one quarter-year.  Price gouging, folks.

And the American solution to all of our money problems? Take it from someone else. As one of my favorite bands, Behind Enemy Lines says in the song, The Global Cannibal:

Importing oil exporting blood

We’ll take their barrels of oil by the barrel of a gun

Importing capital, exporting death

and my favorite line:

We (as in America) devour it all

We’re the global cannibal

Gotta find something other then a war or more oil drilling to solve this problem, in my opinion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

This is a free market, why are we complaining about fuel prices and gouging? Out of all of the large industries oil companies have some of the smaller margins of profit, so record profits still do not mean they are scoring bigger than other large industries.

We never complain about other large businesses earning record profits, so why should oil companies be treated any differently.

Nobody forces people to buy bigger homes with unused rooms, that require more heating and cooling. Nobody forces a single person to drive a full size SUV to work everyday, so if the cost of fuel is hurting you, there really is nobody to blame but yourself.

Also, there is too much focus on oil consumption by automobile all of the time.

Ironically if environmentalists would lobby for a requirement that every new home built would have to have solar panels on the roof, the cost of home heating and cooling would be reduced significantly. Older homeowners could receive tax credits ect..

Why are there empty rooftops all over our cities? Solar panels on all of our buildings would reduce enegry costs, particularly at hours during peak usage.

There are so many places where solar panels can be effectively applied, and yet where are all of the environmentalists when we need them?

We put penalties on auto maufacturers if they produce gas guzzlers and cannot meet the CAFE standards, why not do the same for the application of solar panels on builders?

Builders are also reporting record profits. Maybe, some of those profits can be applied to helping save on heating and cooling expenses with solar panel application.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've never heard such a big bunch of crap in my life. The discussion here began NOT as to whether or not global oil supplies were dwindling and NOT whether or not we could find more ways to conserve energy, but whether or not the oil industry was taking unfair advantage of consumers in the short term.

The fact that a company such as Exxon-Mobil or BP has experienced the INCREASE in NET PROFIT (that is third quarter 2005 vs. third quarter 2004) that they have, is a clear indication that they have taken advantage of an unfortunate situation here in the U.S. Keep in mind people that this is PROFIT (income less cost) we are talking about, not gross income. These increases didn't occur because the world supply of oil was found to be less than expected, they occurred because a natural disaster gave them the opportunity to dramatically raise prices while experiencing a relatively minor increase in costs. As stated before, these companies have the advantage of producing a product that everyone has to have, as to date there is no viable alternative to it's use. They propagated the myth here in the U.S. that we were critically short on their products, prompting the old "Supply and Demand" scenario where prices would skyrocket. The fact is, in the broader picture it was only a minor blip on their production radar screen.

Further, whether I drive an SUV or a YUGO is irrelevant to the discussion because it costs the same amount per gallon for each of us, regardless of how many gallons I use. Whether you spend $20.00 per week on gas, or $200.00 a week on gas, $100 to heat your shack all winter, or $10,000 to heat your mansion, we are all affected equally, percentage wise, by the gouging. Add to this the increase in cost on most other consumer products, directly attributable to the increase in production and delivery costs related to the increase in fuel prices, the extent of the extortion by these companies becomes even more apparent.

Why is it that because I didn't hug a tree this morning that somehow I am to blame for the Oil Corporations screwing the American people?

P.S. @ Gambit: Wonder if that favorite band of yours uses bicycles to deliver their CDs to the marketplace?

@ Ronin: I understand what the guy was saying in the article, but I don't have to invest in real estate to get by, or build a new house, or eat beef when the prices are up for that matter. I do, however, have to have gas to get to work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...