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Graw weapons.


Poita
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I'm sure there will be support weapons in GRAW PC. My concern is that they will be as useless as they were in GR1. I love using guns such as the M249. I like the idea of laying down supressive fire while my team mates advance. Unfortunatly though in the last GR on the PC the support weapons were wildly inaccurate and i'm wondering if it will be the same in GRAW.

I can understand why the support weapons were made inacurate in GR1. Just as they were in CS. If they were moddeled realistically they might dominate then the games could become less tactical. I just think there are more elegant ways of dealing with the possible problems of support guns.

Ok now i'm gonna mention some other games so please dont segway intoa discussion of those games, it's only a feature that i am focussing on. As much as OpFlash and JointOps had their faults, i have to say their support guns were exellent. In Joint Ops the M249 is a sheer joy. I have been prone and let off a double tap and killed guys from quite far away. Also as long as i kept the fire to short burts it was reasonably accurate. Same with OpFlash. In both games they didnt affect the team game play adversly and it was just nice using the support guns.

In GRAW i hope they can use a sollution other than making support guns useless. In GR1 You could be prone and five feet from a stationary guy and it would be hard to hit him. Despite this i still choose them now and again becuase i love the feel and sound of them. Considering the weight of the support guns and the extra rounds how about just making the character much much slower than the others as a way of balancing out their power?

I'd rather a gun just not be included than be in but practically disabled.

Does anyone know what other guns present and futuristic will be in GRAW and what possible issues and impact they could have on the TDM games?

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..well, I can't answer your question but in real life the saw is inaccurate by my standards! OK, correction: it's accurate, the operator may not be. (ever fired a fully automatic weapon? Even from a bipod, the sights are always jumping around !) But if you are on the receiving end of suppressive fire, the goal is not to get hit, even if they are spraying rounds all over the place, ther eare so many rounds the probability of your being hit goes up. It's purpose is suppressive fire. It's not a precision rifle. Often, you "walk" your rounds on to the target, using your tracers. After some practice, your first few rounds may be fairly accurate that's why you use bursts, not fullyautomatic fire. The goal is to have one team suppress while the other team uses a covered /concealed route to an assault position. When the Plt ldr gives the signal, the suppressive fire element either lifts fire, or shifts fire, so the assualt team can assault the objective.

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:rolleyes: The support weapons are fairly accurate in GR1, wasnt too hard to drop someone with a 3-4 burst from about 80-90m. But the suppression fire is almost useless against the AIs as after the initial dash for cover, they still come out even if you supress the rock they are hiding behind. In TVT matches, most people dont use it because of the lack of zoom and the stop rets.
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Private i totally dissagree. The support guns were not accurate at all. At best the first round out might get near it's mark but the second was gaurenteed to be far off. At the incredible rate of fire of kit no1 you would expect that even on a long burst you would hit someone at ten meteres if you were prone but nine times out of ten they could just stand in front of you and you can spray away.

I'm not that good at judging meterage in the game but the length of the bridge in village and it become almost impossible to hit anything.

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support weapons such as the "saws", "gmpg" etc are as mentioned before not used for accuracy, as they develop what is called a cone of fire, which in simple terms spins the rounds out so they dont all follow the same ballistic line. which is why you dont hit very much with long burst! cone of fire + long burst equals rounds off target.

They are also designed to be fired supported that is why they have bipods and you need em.

Saying that i find that they are accurate enough in GR1 to do the job they are designed for, using short controled bursts even though the scale of the maps are realy small in most cases that you dont get the best effect for both support and sniping...

Its still fun to see how well you can double tap though.....i expect to see a saws varient in graw hopefully as a bit of rock n roll is a great destressing.

If you have a good team playing together, laying down good suppresion with a switch fire on assualt as tortfeaser says is the way its done ...... it is shame that the AI in gr1 doesnt react to good suppresive fire but hey its a game and scripting AI that reacts to suppresive fire as in real life, would need a cray probaly not a PC. :huh:

Edited by halo_jones
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My experiences with shooting an M60 were several fold.

1) when setup in a defensive position, Placing your support weapons on the ends of your line left and right side, afforded a commander to keep enemy soldiers "inside" the fields of fire. As if herding the enemy so to speak.

2) Support weapons are direct fire suppression systems meant to fire large volumes of rounds down range at the enemy to keep them occupied more with keeping their heads down rather than shooting back. One draw back is if the ground several hundred meters out drops enough to hide an enemy troop, you can't get him unless you have grenade assets to clear out the dead area See M60 range card and pictures here

3) the reason for these range cards was so that if I got shot or killed, you could see by the card where your primary and secondary fields of fire are. this is to include "dead space" the can't be hit by direct fire. Also to orient yourself as to where you are to defend.

4) As in #2 above, the M60 keeping the enemies heads down allowed for your troops to move to flank in reasonable security for a battlefield situation.

5) As you can see from the illustration link above, each marker for an item on your range card is counted in mils, so if say house was at 60 mils and elevation up +10, if you traverse your tripod to 60 mils elevation up +10, you should be pointed directly at the house. range to each key feature on your range card can help when calling for artillery or mortar fire as you'll see where the enemy are in relation to those key points.

Here's more info that covers the M240G as well Here

But GRAW is only a game and all of this means nothing in Game.

Edited by Papa6
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Does anyone know what other guns present and futuristic will be in GRAW and what possible issues and impact they could have on the TDM games?

One newer weapon I noticed from the latest advertisment in Game Informer magazine, was the XM109.

Prepare to be TKed if I can't get one of my own.

:devil:

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My buddy and I had this very conversation just Sat. night.

He was using the SAW...and I was saying how its main use would be to keep the enemies head down....yet in GR1 they just jump out and shoot that single shot from the hip that kills you. The Saw is laying down 200 rounds on their location....but instead of seeking cover...they just stand up...walk around their cover...and take that single shot at you, as your 200 rounds spray wildly.

HACK

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The SAW, M249 was designed to replace the automatic rifleman in each squad.It had been before(Vietnam and after) a soldier with an M16A1 on full auto.

The SAW was first in the Marine Corps, then We got them about the time I was in basic training or just a smidge before.We were taught the user of that weapon would replace the former Auto rifleman.

But the XM109 or OICW was scrapped by the military because they couldn't get the weight down to the right amount.

But I think the M4/M16 should be gone as the US military are supposed to get their replacement rifle XM8? sometime around 2008. But I've heard their having problems with that system too. :wacko:

But to get back on topic...who knows what we'll see in GR:AW?

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This much is for sure: Back in Dec 2002/Jan2003, we got German guards to watch the front gates to our kaserne. They had JUST gotten the G36K's so I'm pretty sure or hope that the G36K's will be in GRAW. I've seen them and they are nice looking weapons.

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But I'm not bothered which weapons we have, although the G36K would be a nice addition. I just want a selection of weapons that will suit certain tastes, scenarios and tactics better than others.

Don't get me wrong, the SA80 was a great weapon, but by the end of my time in GR1 that's what I and pretty much everyone else who played the game would use. So on one hand it was nice that everyone was on an even keel, but on the other it did get a tad boring.

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Yeah there are some lovely looking weapons there.

GR1 did seem to center around a small selection of guns out of the many that were available. I hope the game design and demands of the different scenarios gives us a good reason to use all the different weapons.

Generally Heavy support Guns and shotguns are not used in most games cause they are over tweaked to stop them dominating.

I think the XM8 and G36 look really nice and i look forward to using them. I have a question for you who are experienced with real guns though. I saw those two i think have attachments that allow you to attach 100 round drums onto them in stead of magazines. Well, if you do that does it affect the accuracy or on single shot and burst is it just as acurate as it was with a 30 round mag in in those weapons? (i hope the 100 round drums are available in the game as an option.)

Also, instead of matches being a light show tracer fest i would like more sound and thump as the rounds hit the ground around you. Suppressive fire tends not to have an effect on other players in dm cause there isn't really a fear factor so i think we need to compensate for that by making the near hits have more of an impact with sound etc.

Edited by Poita
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I agree with you somewhat. example: the M249 is a belt fed MG and can be used with 30rd magazines. But I heard that going from belt fed to magazine fed shaves the bolt down in such a way that you can't use the belt fed ammo anymore.

Atleast I got this from all my weapons training.

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oppsie to stay on thread cos i didnt with my last post .... xm8 family ~ Scars ~ and OIC from GR1 the draganov L96 and barret .5 for snipe fest, and supressed mp5 if the enemy AI is up to dealing with not reacting to supressed incoming, ie they dont have a scoobie where the shooter realy is ...

Edited by halo_jones
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Well...take a close look at the box art and it should give an idea to atleast one weapon that will be in but haven't been mentioned yet.

grawboxart.jpg

Compare that to this

Crye mockup caseless carbine

I did find some higher resolution renders of that but as they aparently hadn't been sanctioned for release by UBI they got taken down rather quickly.

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I guess I'd like to see whatever's on this list:

sofweapons8la.jpg

You could also add:

KAC's XM110 SASS

XM307 (pintle mounted)

XM312 (ditto)

XM25

M16A4 (how many A2s would be left in 2014?)

SOPMOD M4s

M9 pistol

M11 pistol

Payload rifle

M82A1M(A3)

M-136 (AT-4)

SMAW-D

The list can go on to include various M249 and M240 versions as well as shotguns like the M1014, 870, and Mossberg 590...... :wacko:

Edited by GabRaz
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I just remembered this.

FN scar and Heckler & Koch XM8 rifles

A modular rifle, the XM8 will become the backbone of future fighting forces. The U.S. Special Operations Command (SOCOM), though, has more specific needs and wanted a modular rifle that could accommodate various caliber shells. With the SCAR, you can modify the rifle for various sniping or assault purposes and grab clips from fallen enemies—even if they’re using AK-47s.

XM-29 This experimental weapon is camera equipped so that it can shoot around corners. The camera is mounted on the gun, and it sends the image to the soldier’s monocle. Now you can get a first-person view of your weapon in the real world, too!

“Countersnipe†Rifle While Novickas didn’t have its number designation on hand, this weapon will allow combatants to see through walls. Then, equipped with high-caliber ammunition, snipers can penetrate obstructions to eliminate hiding targets.

Link Info

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I'm hoping that whatever weapons that they have will be moddable. This really gives the game a huge replayability factor. The combinations of weapons, mods, skins, and open ended maps make a great game. I was playing SS today with a few friends on co op and we all lamented the fact that the exact weapon combination that we wanted do not currently exist. I'm hoping that this will be the first GR game that gives us that type of control. Give us that, and all of the weapons that SOCOM uses (And our top allies' weapons as well), and they won't do any wrong. For VS play, allow limitations on mods such as no GLs, for those who don't like this sort of thing.

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