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What would make or break GRAW PC for you?


Poita
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There is a lot of discussion as to how much realism we want from GRAW PC. It even comes down to small details and the difference between how a crate would fall tot he floor or what kind of plume of dust a round would throw up when it hits the ground. Nitpicking some might say but small details can have a big impact on the overall experience.

It's not really about realism v fantasy actually. It's about the art of knowing how far to bend the laws of physics/reality without breaking them. The more you bend them the more tension there is which translates to excitement, awe, amazment in games/movies . . but the moment you go past the breaking point all that tension and excitement etc is released and just dissapears and you are left with nothing.

Obviously some games and movies go too far and break rather than bend the laws of physics/principles of realism so mainly younger (gernerally teens/kids) minds can maintain excitement while playing/watching .

Certain people liked playing Quake 3 for week, months even years on end but the GR type of game player looked for other things. In fact Unreal Tournament was a slight improvement but even that didnt last as long so it was modded into strike force for us types. When we found GR1 that was it. We left all that stuff behind, it was like we found home. We all had some niggles about small details we didnt like but on the whole it was an ideal blend of realism and artistic licence. Our senses were so finely tuned to the amount of bending of the rules that we could accept that we could descern between fine adjustments so games like OpFlash, Rainbow Six and of course Ghost Recon would become permanant fixtures in our gaming life and games such as Medal of Honour, Call of Duty, Counter Strike, Day of Defeat would be temporary distractions that we could enjoy and appreciate but ultimately not be satisfied with.

That's why something like five years later nothing has come along to out do/replace Ghost recon so many of us, despite naturally getting a bit tired of the same game/features/maps still play and enjoy Ghost Recon while we wait for GR2 . . er i mean 3.

Of course we realise and also worry/are concerned about the fact that we/our type of gamer is not likely to be in the majority when the powers that be make forcasts on the type of gamer who will buy GRAW PC and therefore what features (or more acurately how to tune a certain feature) will go into it. We might moan that we made this franchise what it is by buying, playing, modding and being players of the mods of GR1 but deep down we know that bussiness conerns trumps any loyalty to us rabid fans that the biz might (and i stress, might) feel.

My guess is the devs such as RSE and also GRIN are the biggest GR heads of all, after all they created GR1 and we the players just jumped on the bandwaggon. So if it were up to them we'd probably get more of the same but ultimately they are beholden to the suits and there must be a limit to how much they can assert their sensibilities into GRAW.

So here we are, hoping that in Feb of next year we'll get a game that satisfies our taste. Most of us pretty much guess that the basic nature of the game will be a worthy sucessor to GR1 but it's come down to the fine tuning and the atistry in the bending of laws. Liking GRAW PC or not could come down to such subtlties.

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The only thing that will break this game is for it to be cancelled. There is a vacuum in the tac sim genre that only GRAW will fill for me. As far as I can see, this is it, this is the last hope for an intelligent squad combat shooter, because there isn't another game in development that will come close to filling the void. Of course, all the money today is in building scripted arcade games, I just want one good tac sim, and this is it.

I would rather see it more like classic GR, but, this is as close as I am going to get, so I will gladly take GRAW, all expansion packs and all sequels.

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I guess for me, the main question is: "Would that happen in real life?" Yeah, I know that there is a split between reality and fun, but I think part of what defines the Ghost Recon (and R6) crowd over other games is that the closer to reality, the more fun it is to us. When I say that it "just doesn't feel like Ghost Recon", basically I am saying that flashy graphics, explosions, and all sorts of cameras and views mean much less to me than sneaking up on my enemy and quietly putting two in his head. I actually liked this aspect of Summit Strike very much. The stealth element returned to this game. I like the fact that the enmies tried to flank me. The graphics were better as well.

The new PC game, IMO should push these elements, as well as adding realistic action filled aspects. I don't want things to explode that usually don't. I don't care about flying boxes. I care about strategy, tactics, and stealth. I know that this has been said before, but I think that Ubi has lost touch with what the CORE fans of this series want. Perhaps there are too many outside polls, and too few internal polls.

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GR had pathetic explosions and distruction. In comparison with todays games.

If it plays like GR and better then I will be very happy, Add some decent effects and Ill be more happy.

As far as real life goes I had enough of real life in the 70s 80s I like to be able to play the game and have fun.

Colin

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A breaker ...... hmmmmm. :hmm:

Practicial :

That it has bugs abound when people start reporting back here (as I wont buy right away) or runs like utter crap on a machine of my spec (thus I wouldnt waste getting it to be frustrated by frame rates).

It realy does end up like a run & gun (though this doesnt seem likely mind you, but you asked what would break it .. so).

Nerdy GR1 lover things :

Diamonds ... seeing through walls, bullet trails, laser sized tracers, Medal Of Honour style music all over gameplay .... wait for it .......... even IF they are in the game, IF ...... they all cannot be switched off as an option in MP/SP.

I had other niggles like scripting in modding via sandbox ... but that stays out as thats not a "breaker".

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red dimonds = break

Agreed, Still is afew more things just this one is at the top of the break list!

I can't say anything would "break" it for me, as I have already committed to buying 2 and I will stand by that...but if you changed the question to what two or three things would be most dissappointing, I'd say:

1. too much action. Most of my time as a soldier is not spent pulling the trigger, but waiting to pull the trigger. Scanning the windows, looking for movement, looking for the glint off of a wristwatch as he aims at me or mine, you get the picture. If I want constant trigger pulling I'll play Doom 3. In GRAW, I want to decide when to pull the trigger: I don't want to be shooting in a position my enemy chose. If he decides when I am engaged, that is called an ambush.

2. too much information. I'm not a techie: I'm a dumbass. but I can hit what I aim for. I don't understand this cross com stuff...I have been briefed on future warrior more times than I care to be, mostly by the companies that are dying to sell the army new and expensive technology. Nothing replaces the trigger puller. The most dangerous thing on the planet is an American Fighting Man and his rifle. They can keep the technology. I understand company commanders and platoon leaders benefitting from commo technology, but not the standard soldier, not even operators need such stuff. As an Operator, if I can call in strike with an 8 digit grid, and get steel on target in 15 minutes, i'm happy.

3. this sounds silly, but I'd abe dissappointed by people - that don't look like/move like people. from what I've seen of the character they are ok...they tend to saunter in a predictable gait...(I don't saunter, ever. I'm either on patrol fresh, or on patrol dead dog tired and every piece of equipment hanging off of me feels like a ton of bricks.) i'd like random steps, the odd twist of the leg caused by a rock under your boot, you know what I mean. Do you guys know what you are carrying? 30 rounds weighs roughly a pound. 280 round basic load is essentially 10 pounds. Add 8 pounds for the water in your camelbak. (we've covered ammo and water, the rest is icing on the cake) Aside from ammo and water, your weapon with ACOG, PEQ, I always carry two smokes, (1 screen, 1 marking PZ). long story short, when you go you are carrying at least 30 extra pounds at a minimum just in ammo, water, and ordnance, not including your kevlar, plate carrier, and commo equipment.

So, You ain't gonna saunter.

4. ballistics that were not realistic. Maybe I won't get the bullet drop I asked for....but I don't want to have to shoot a guy in the torso three times. And if I'm using a 7.62, one shot will do.

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My concern in moddability above all else. GR brought forth some awesome mods from the fan base. no other game could even come close. all people who play from other countries could make a mod with uniforms from their respective countries.

But not being able to Mod GR:AW would break it for me. This would be a analagous to hindering creativity. if they don't want us to mod the game...atleast let us make new maps.I remember an old commercial here in the US in the 80's whereby an old lady in the wendy's commercial said the slogan...but to put it to GR:AW as she would put it.."Where's the Beef?"

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The only thing that will break this game is for it to be cancelled. There is a vacuum in the tac sim genre that only GRAW will fill for me. As far as I can see, this is it, this is the last hope for an intelligent squad combat shooter, because there isn't another game in development that will come close to filling the void.

" too much action. Most of my time as a soldier is not spent pulling the trigger, but waiting to pull the trigger. Scanning the windows, looking for movement, looking for the glint off of a wristwatch as he aims at me or mine..........."

These two quotes pretty much sum up the situation for all us die hard PC Tac Sim junkies right now.

I have been playing BF2 for lack of something to play while waiting for GRAW (and GR2!) and it pretty much sucks, as I spend the whole time either getting killed or trying not to!!. Just so much frenetic action that it is mostly too hard to play for any length of time (lol like several hours at a time). I miss the more considered pace and strategy of GR...........................

........So much so that I have just d/l'd a couple of newish mods for GR1 and am going to start down that track again, and see i there is a mod only CO-OP community alive anywhere. I have had it wiith the Hacking fests of UBI and IGS etc.

Does anyone know of a good organized server/league for guys that want to play co-op and mods?.

REgds

JF

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Run & Gun style would break it for me and I'd continue to play GR1 for anything tactical or look towards "Enemy in Sight".

If it were to have similar problems that Raven Shield was ridden with. Where my FPS, even on a pretty powerful machine which shoudl handle the game with no problems, only gets a maximum FPS of 20 lowering to 5-10 FPS when anything moves or happens.

Personally though, for the most I reckon this game will do just fine. GRIN seem like they've got a good head on them.

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Forgetting about the fans = break

Its not just us, I have been visiting the IGN Gamespot and several other computer game forums and many people are showing their discuss in the route the developers have taken.

Not saying it will be a bad game, But it is not and most likely NEVER will be the the GR feel were looking for.

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That's just it Prozac, you never will find a game like GR, well not for a long time to come anyway. But GRAW looks to be the best thing coming out of all the other games on the market right now, so if this can be as good as it could be, I'd imagine we are onto a winner.

If people are looking for GR1 revised, well you aren't going to get it. Hence why OE mod is an alternative for some people.

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Just make the Multi player Adversarial Rock. I couldn't care less about the single player or the co-op. There's nothing better Than a half a dozen or more people on TS who click and get the set up right on a match or two to pull off the win or a great defence or a decimating offence.

As far as realism vs unrealism ... I don't want realism, just the illusion of realism.

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What would REALLY ROCK for GRAW.... is for it to actually HAPPEN....

I personally am getting a little fed up with PC platfom players being treated like second class citizens from UBI and GR developers in general...

The PC players are what MADE GR the success it has been, and yet again, we're getting dumped on and placed in the back seat in favor of the console gamers...

If the developers are so concerned about market share, then I wonder how they'd feel if the entire PC community simply said..... 'eh.. thanks, but you had your chance...'

Because if there's one thing certain in life, nature abhors a vacuum... and if GRAW isn't delivered for the PC... someone else will fill that void... And IF that happens, I hope it hurts someone.... real bad.... right in the wallet...

There... rant concluded...

:rant:

PS.... If I offended any console gamers... my apologies... you can't help it...

If I offended any 'developers'.... good.... that was sorta my point....

:angry:

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Lizard,Oct 24 2005, 04:52 PM]

Just make the Multi player Adversarial Rock. I couldn't care less about the single player or the co-op. There's nothing better Than a half a dozen or more people on TS who click and get the set up right on a match or two to pull off the win or a great defence or a decimating offence.

As far as realism vs unrealism ... I don't want realism, just the illusion of realism.

I agree with the above post 100%

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For what it's worth, I have a few things that bug me particualrly. Some have been mentioned, but what they heck...

1. Modability... c'mon, I'm a character modder. Let's speed this process up a bit. I'm all for "the more modders the merrier." Everyone needs to have the possibility of modding open to them. It would be great if we got some official mod tools to help make characters, weapons, skins etc. That way I don't have to take the time to help the average schmoe learn how to do it :P Haha, just kidding, I'm not done writing tutorials.

2. Mulitplayer gameplay. There is no single player for me. I really can't stand single player (I still haven't beat all of RVS or all of IT). I want there to be well rounded Adversarial and COOP game-types. Let's see some missions, stealth and others for COOP and see some good team based strategic play for Adv. I want bigger servers, more people. I want to have 32 and 64 player Adv. games. I want to have COOP games that have more than 1 team and 1 commander (so to speak).

3. Gameplay Weakness... in my opinion, the threat indicator is a load of crap. It's uneccesary, but that's me. I don't want things that make the game easier to play by being obnoxious about it, like the map was too good sometimes, a handy tool, but it could be bad. I don't want to see anything that cheapens the experience.

3a. Weapons, let's have some well rounded weapons to choose from. Some of the GR weapons, while fun, were useless. I'd like to be able to see people chose weapons based on their individual strengths rather than because it's the "best" (SOPMOD and MK23 for RVS syndrome I suppose).

3b. Weapon customization. Let's really get into it. I want to paint my gun, I want to mod it. I want it to be hot as hell. I think it would be so cool if people could customize the looks of their guns and then have other MP players see how sweet it is. This is probably darn near impractical, but would be very cool. I like to spray my guns ;)

4. Graphics... lets face it, the GR graphics aren't the greatest. It's an old game, but looking at some of our mod work it is still up to date when it comes to that. I want to be in the most realistic environment possible.

5. HUD. I love the GR HUD. Not too cluttered, like in Battlefield 2. KISS.

6. Modability

7. Developer support. You guys made the game, help us make it even better than it will be. If we could have dev support, GRAW could live as long as GR1.

I'm looking forward to GRAW. I just worry about it taking a dump in some areas... :(

GRIN has my support. :D I think they'll do a bang-up job though. I'm just ready to get on the battlefield, so hurry it up! :lol:

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well balanced MP kits.

nearly every other FPS out there has a kit which seems to dominate most others.

need to balance them well.

GR1 example -

OICW/GL

MM1

OICW/2 Sensors

All a little too dominating to the point that you could count on these weapons being the weapons of choice for 99% of players.

Support weapons on the other hand - rarely if ever taken.

Find the balance in the weapons kits....my two cents.

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Ive been completly ignoring GR:AW because of (i dont think my PC is strong enough to handle anything thats coming out) problems. But if i do happen to jump into it like GR1 it must have MODS...

Just make the Multi player Adversarial Rock. I couldn't care less about the single player or the co-op. There's nothing better Than a half a dozen or more people on TS who click and get the set up right on a match or two to pull off the win or a great defence or a decimating offence.

As far as realism vs unrealism ... I don't want realism, just the illusion of realism.

I completely disagree with that... I hope the COOP , ADV , and SP are all just as fun as GR1. (oh and it musth ave COOP, alot of games that are out lately dont have it.)

Mission possibility, make it non linear... make IGOR more advanced (just a bit.)

If you cant get mods, GRAW goes to the trash bin :rolleyes: .

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