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pz3
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The point being is that everything we do and or say has consequences.  Whether good or bad depends on the situation.  The adult and mature thing to do, something that escapes quite a few unfortunatly, is to accept those consequences when they come.

You're right. But rarely do people do this. Take guys in my place of work, they'll dob you in rather than take the flack themselves, even if it is their fault. Anyay to wriggle their way out of a telling off.

There are no morales in the world today. People do first, then think later. Then they wander why they get into ######ty situations all the time.

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@xG5kdo

Very good post!!!  I would agree with a good portion of what you said even.  However, one area that I would like to call attention to is the point where you say that the "civilians" have a right and civic duty (forgive me if I misquote you it's after 2am here and I'm in a hurry to get to bed), to question police on the things they do.  I would agree with that also in part.  But the time to do that is not when an officer is effecting an arrest.  That is the worst possible time.  Not only could the civilian be endangering themselves but also, the arresting officer(s) and other bystanders.  Not to mention the fact that in every state such a move can be assesed as an attempt to obstruct justice, obstruct a criminial investigation as well as a whole other myrid of crimes.

Also too though we as the general public need to get back some basics of our own.  Such as personal responsibilty.  For example, if I go out and indulge in a few beers too many I have to accept the fact that those drinks are going to impair my better judgement.  Furthermore if I act out in such a state I am likely to act in a manner I might not normally do but that doesn't excuse me from being responsible for my actions as I set the stage for any such event by consuming too much of a substance known to be a major problem causer in the first place.  The point being is that everything we do and or say has consequences.  Whether good or bad depends on the situation.  The adult and mature thing to do, something that escapes quite a few unfortunatly, is to accept those consequences when they come.

Stout Hearts

|RE|Warhawk

Oh, I would agree whole-heartedly. Whatever questions, protests, or complaints the civilians have against the actions of LE agents can be conveyed better, more thoroughly, and efficiently at the appropriate time i.e. the court of law in the time of trials. I regret to say, this is one part that I forgot to mention in my post. Civilians sometimes forget that there are facilities set up for them by the state to accomplish this.

To interfere with the work of an organ of the state is detrimental to everyone's interest. The police can arrest someone, but rest assured that if after an investigation they find no reason to hold that person any longer, he/she will be released. People need to think longer into the future rather than only the immediate. There is no point in obstructing the police, or any other organs of the state.

People need to remember, that in a democratic society everything have logical consequences. The police cannot and will not arrest someone just on a whim, beat him up, detain him for a long time, and imprison him without due reason. I can't speak for the shadier parts of the world, but those things do not happen in a democracy.

Out.

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What I find amusing is that because these were police officers, authorized to use force, that this is a problem. If this was a video on Big-Boys.com, and two girls were jumping on a third and beating her senseless, people on here would think it was hilarious. It's not the fact that the girls got tazed, or slammed, that anybody has a problem with. It's the fact that it was a cop, legally entitled to use force, that you have a problem with. The one person, given the circumstances, who was authorized to act in such a manner. He does it, and everyone wants to scream "excessive force".

I am not going to ask you to put yourself in their position, because you wouldn't understand it. You don't know how it feels to be surrounded by 5-600 people who don't like you because of what you do and have to do something they don't want you to do. Funny how the Monday morning quarterbacks know how things should've been done on Sunday, but never suited up to play the game.

C

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Sorry, gonna drag this one up from the deep. I remember a lot of talk about human nature in here (at least I think it was in here). Found a quote that I thought was brilliant:

"But what about human nature? Can it be changed? And if not, will it endure under Anarchism?

Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name! Every fool, from king to policeman, from the flatheaded parson to the visionless dabbler in science presumes to speak authoritatively of human nature. The greater the mental charlatan, the more definite his insistence on the wickedness and weaknesses of human nature. Yet, how can any one speak of it today, with every soul in prison, with every heart fettered, wounded, and maimed?

John Burroughs has stated that experimental study of animals in captivity is absolutely useless. Their character, their habits, their appitites undergo a compltet transformation when torn from their soil in field and forest. With human nature caged in a narrow space, whipped daily into submission, how can we speak of its potentialities?"

Perhaps oppression creates the human nature that we speak of all the time?

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Sorry, gonna drag this one up from the deep.  I remember a lot of talk about human nature in here (at least I think it was in here).  Found a quote that I thought was brilliant:

"But what about human nature? Can it be changed? And if not, will it endure under Anarchism?

Poor human nature, what horrible crimes have been committed in thy name! Every fool, from king to policeman, from the flatheaded parson to the visionless dabbler in science presumes to speak authoritatively of human nature. The greater the mental charlatan, the more definite his insistence on the wickedness and weaknesses of human nature. Yet, how can any one speak of it today, with every soul in prison, with every heart fettered, wounded, and maimed?

John Burroughs has stated that experimental study of animals in captivity is absolutely useless. Their character, their habits, their appitites undergo a compltet transformation when torn from their soil in field and forest. With human nature caged in a narrow space, whipped daily into submission, how can we speak of its potentialities?"

Perhaps oppression creates the human nature that we speak of all the time?

Humans created any 'oppression' in the first place. Therefore, the oppression you're blaming for this or that, is a direct result of human nature. Oppression and war, famine and crime, are the results of human nature, not vice versa.

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No denying that, but who's to say that control creates human nature as we now know it?

edit - BTW, this is all just hypothetical, I don't really believe this. I just thought it was an interesting idea, and wanted to hear what everyone else thought of it.

Edited by snared_gambit
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Whoa, how the hell did I miss a debate like this?! I've just spent this morning reading through all of this and it's exactly why I decided against a career in the Police force over here. No matter what they do someone will have a go at them about it. I've worked with and met many police officers and all of them have been top blokes (and er...bloke-esses?!), even when we briefly moved to the States a few years back that remained the same. Now, I think you've all settled the issue, and on the most part I agree with you, but sitting here, safely tucked away behind this monitor, I think that those girls got what was coming to them. Their manner was simply disrespectful, and this shouldn't be tolerated, as from my experience thats how it works. You show them the respect they deserve, and generally if you've done nothing wrong, everything works out calmly and is better for everyone. More than anything, it was an example to the rest of the mob, some of whom looked fairly aggressive. Those officers made a point, that if you try anything with them they are prepared to use that level of force. I know if I'd just seen that, I sure as hell wouldn't give them any grief.

Just my input.

Dickie.

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Their manner was simply disrespectful, and this shouldn't be tolerated, as from my experience thats how it works.Dickie.

That is part of the problem today, there is just no respect for elders/authority.

About a year ago there was a kid just standing in the middle of the street, and he wouldn't move for oncoming cars. He just stood there and you couldn't get around him (it was a narrow residential road with cars on both sides). I put my window down and told him he might want to be more respectful to drivers on the road, and of course his response was F'in this F'in that. This little runt couldn't have been more than 140lbs. My arms were thicker than the tiny little toothpicks that he would probably call his legs.

I was so close to getting out of the car and tossiing him over the six foot wood fence that had a sign saying beware of dogs. Wouldn't be much to eat off his liitle body, but would serve him right.

I remember a time when kids answered with yes sir, or yes mam. Now kids look at adults with disdain. How unfortunate. Of course the adults today are part of the problem, as they no longer act in a manner that is worthy of respect. It is all a big shame.

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My parents taught me "yes sir/no sir/thank you sir", and "yes maam/no maam/thank you maam", and the one time I told my dad to ###### OFF he picked me up by the throat. Lesson learned!!! Was it rough? Yes, but damn straight I didn't do it again. It starts in the home, and like you said plenty of adults not acting in a manner worthy.

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