Gamespot: "Hands on with GRAW 360"

[OPSIXDELTA]

This will HURT some classic fans, others will LOVE the fact that there is news at all.

http://www.gamespot.com/xbox360/action/tom...ew_6135046.html

Edited October 5, 2005 by OPSIXDELTA

[EasyCo]

Anyone looking for the dry, ultra-tactical shooting "action" of the first Ghost Recon, don't get your hopes up. At its core, this third game plays very similarly to Ghost Recon 2, which moved the camera to a third-person perspective and emphasized run-and-gun shooting much more so than the original game.

I'm going to pass on this new arcade game, which has all of a sudden become GR for consoles. At least, I can look forward to the PC game. I really gave GR a try for the consoles (GR2, GR2:SS), but they arn't trying very hard to get me to play it.

Link

[WhiteKnight77]

The most noticeable changes to Ghost Recon's gameplay with Advanced Warfighter are the result of your new equipment. The best example of this is your highly advanced visualization abilities, which make it a lot easier to pick out and keep track of important targets and threats. When you go to a zoom view with your multipurpose assault rifle and make visual contact with an enemy--even partial contact, if he's mostly hidden behind cover--your gear will be able to identify the soldier as a threat and will create a red overlay showing you the outline of his entire body, even if he's obscured by a wall or object. Obviously, this makes it a no-brainer to pick him off right when he comes around the corner.

Well, it seems as if my earlier statement was wrong as the Christmas tree outlines have not been removed from the game after all. If not aimed at kids, and aimed at a mature audience, why the oulines still? It has been said many times after first seeing them that they weren't wanted.

[Dannik]

Don't forget that this is the Xbox360 release, not the PC release, WK. Features in one aren't necessarily in the other. You may be correct still.

[WhiteKnight77]

Take a look at GR, it was released as a Mature title. A mature audience took a liking to the game. Why then was the sequel targeted to a younger clientel

I know Pete was reading this as I started to add this reply, maybe he will take the replies to this thread back to RSE and forward it to those at Ubi who need to understand this.

I sure didn't make any maps targetted to kids. I don't think Piggyson and the rest of the character team made their characters unrealistic so a child could enjoy it. And I don't believe the design of the game was specifically targeted towards minors.

If GR was for kids, it would be on Gamecube with a toon shader. But it's not. It's actually quite realistic. Characters are beautifully detailed. Weaponry and other technology are mirrored from their real world counterparts. Foliage is researched to be 100% accurate to the region in which the games take place. Architecture is researched to fit the style of the region, be it Kazakhstan, Korea, Mexico City, Georgia, Cuba, etc. Enemy vehicles are also chosen based on region as well. Design knows their weapons, clip sizes, rate of fire, range, etc.

All of this attention to detail and authenticity is in Red Storm games, so I'm not quite so sure why people think the games are targeted to kids and can't appeal to an older audience, be it console or PC.

←

This was posted in the NEW GRAW VIDEO thread earlier by Pete.

I asked

Gameplay:

PC gameplay will be altered to suit the PC audience. Tactical and strategic elements will be added to create an experience more similar to the original Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon® PC title which garnered Game of the Year awards from IGN and PC Gamer.

This is from Ubisoft's press release about GRAW back in May. If even the console versions are to be aimed at a more mature crowd, then why differentiate between console and PC gamers as stated by Ubi? Ubi admits that the console versions are more action oriented than the PC version. Early console screens even screamed kiddie game with the colored outlines around Piggyson's great models (yes, they are great).

I like the looks of the maps so far and follow the tradition of RSE using actual buildings from the area the game takes place, but still, when marketing hires some beefcake to scream about features in the game, even if directed at people who have no idea that the game is aimed at those over 18, then people will get the wrong ideas. How about putting actual devs up there to walk people through about what is shown? Yes, Serellan was at E3 in 2004 and again this year, but why wasn't he talking to vendors and such for each showing? Why even have an action oriented video if the game isn't aimed at those who crave those type of games (typically kids)?

After my first day at Games Convention 2005 when I commented on feeling bad for console gamers I meant it as Ubi has already stated that their game will not be like the ones PC gamers are getting? Why can't console gamers have the same game as those of us who do not use a console? Why must the game be different? Everywhere I look, console gamers are saying they want a tactical game or one that requires thinking and not just all out action. If GRAW for consoles is a tactical game, where is the Tac Map (command map if you want) that the PC game has? Why even have such an obtrusive HUD on the consoles?

What has been shown and said has already screamed volumes as to who Ubi is targeting with the console versions. I know that RSE has gone to great lengths to provide a better feel to GRAW compared, yet why do I feel that it will not appeal to those who want a more tactical game on the console?

←

That is the reason for restating or rather reasking that same question.

[FA sear]

@OPSIXDELTA, WK, and anyone else that has provided good insight.

Thanks.

You just saved me $60. Operation Flashpoint, here I come.

Looks like the only GR games I will own are [GR], and GRIT. GR2? SOLD! GRSS? SOLD! GRAW? Fool me once, shame on UBI, fool me twice, shame on me, fool me a thrid time? Not gonna happen.

Edited October 5, 2005 by jchung

[Cons72]

I just will keep hoping there is a setting to turn the outline off. Of course they probably have it set up where is outlines are turned off it is insanely hard. Moving ahead in a series and making advances is one thing, but glow in the dark enemies. Come on... (wait, didn't enemies glow in the dark in GR and GRIT with NV on?)

[WhiteKnight77]

Don't you mean glow in the day enemies?

[FA sear]

I just will keep hoping there is a setting to turn the outline off.  Of course they probably have it set up where is outlines are turned off it is insanely hard.  Moving ahead in a series and making advances is one thing, but glow in the dark enemies.  Come on... (wait, didn't enemies glow in the dark in GR and GRIT with NV on?)

←

At this point I couldn't care less if you can turn the outlines off. With a quote like this:

"Anyone looking for the dry, ultra-tactical shooting "action" of the first Ghost Recon, don't get your hopes up. At its core, this third game plays very similarly to Ghost Recon 2, which moved the camera to a third-person perspective and emphasized run-and-gun shooting much more so than the original game."

I'm done with this series.

Operation Flashpoint is the one to look to.

[Cons72]

Did anyone watch the MP video on Gamespot? The graphics really don't look much better than Far Cry on the Xbox. The map itself, though maybe we only saw a small portion of it, did not impress me.

And how about this little gem. When you get killed you get a "Kill Cam" that shows you where you were shot from. GREAT IDEA GUYS!!!

Nothing better than having a nice sniper spot you have found and the first time you shoot someone from it, now they know that sniper spot. If I find good spots I don't want to broadcast that to the world. For cryin' out loud.

Other things I am leary of

Only four player co-op online

Different co-op missions for online (have they spent a lot of quality resources on these?) I really liked GR2 and SS for the online co-op with 10 or so of my buddies online.

Vapor trails from your weapon on SP. Visual is distracting, overdone and not needed.

Day glow enemies.

Edited October 5, 2005 by Cons72

[Serellan]

Only four player co-op online

Only four player co-op was supported in GR2.

Different co-op missions for online (have they spent a lot of quality resources on these?) 

Only if you consider the guys and gals that made the Summit Strike maps & missions "quality resources".

[the.ronin]

At this point I couldn't care less if you can turn the outlines off. With a quote like this:

"Anyone looking for the dry, ultra-tactical shooting "action" of the first Ghost Recon, don't get your hopes up. At its core, this third game plays very similarly to Ghost Recon 2, which moved the camera to a third-person perspective and emphasized run-and-gun shooting much more so than the original game."

I'm done with this series.

←

Roger that.

[EasyCo]

Only four player co-op online

Only four player co-op was supported in GR2.

Is it offline co-op though?

[OPSIXDELTA]

New Hands On article at 1up.com

http://www.1up.com/do/previewPage?cId=3144362&did=1

[EasyCo]

For friends, the game also comes packed with four co-op missions, with more to be released over Xbox Live in time. Still no word about whether downloadable content will be free. Our guess? Probably not.

You got to be kidding me... Only 4 co-op missions?

[Colin]

I think its a real bad move to come to conclusion, on a 2 miute video and a coverage report on a 10 min viewing.

DONT YOU THINK.???

If the rest of the world agrees yes maybe, but come on people, use some common sence here.

Lets face it S.S. GR2 has had some amazing scores from all over the industry but some of you hated it. But its a fact its very popular.

I think I would be a little more patient and see what comes out of the works re sencible honest coverage of the game in more depth than what we have at the moment.

It is realy unfair to make such harsh judgments at this time on we have seen and read.

Colin

[EasyCo]

I really don't think its unfair to read numerous reports about the game and complain about certain aspects. That sounds reasonable to me... but whatever.

[deleyt]

Some gamedevelopers really believe a game's enjoyability is enhanced by adding gadgets like those diamond trackers.

Don't they realize a game is more exciting when it's relying on the gamers abilities, not the cpu's?

Ah well, maybe we WILL become this dumb after a few more games like these...

[Colin]

I really don't think its unfair to read numerous reports about the game and complain about certain aspects. That sounds reasonable to me... but whatever.

←

I have seen the original post report not numerous.

This

Based on the demo mission we got to play, it looks like Advanced Warfighter will do exactly that. Anyone looking for the dry, ultratactical shooting "action" of the first Ghost Recon shouldn't get their hopes up. At its core, this third game plays very similar to Ghost Recon 2, which moved the camera to a third-person perspective and emphasized run-and-gun shooting much more than the original game. You've still got the same basic moves. You can go to crouching

I am saying they are judging the whole game by this one mission.

That is not a fair assesment of the whole game. It cant be can it.

You see what I mean.

Colin

[Rocky]

I have to admit I am surprised to see people posting they are done with GR, based on a review from a guy they don't even know, who's played a preview mission for time unknown, on a totally different platform from the one they intend(ed) to play on.

[Colin]

Just to put a different light on it.

This is from another source.

See if it reads different.

The multiplayer level of Advanced Warfighter I played felt very much like GR2 and the standalone pack, GR: Summit Strike. That's a good thing. The Ubisoft online producer explained that the team learned much about what worked in GR2 and GR: Summit Strike, so heading into Advanced Warfighter, they instantly knew that the multiplayer levels would be good, fun, and snipe-tastic for eight-on-eight elimination, defend, and firefight sessions. Ubisoft is bringing back one level from GR2, Mountain Falls, and is re-dressing it as Jungle Falls, otherwise, the rest of the missions are all new.

Advanced Warfighter is attempting to bring a new level of customization to the series, giving gamers the chance to switch out their characters with different hats, faces, and camo attire. In multiplayer, they can change all the game rules, a sweet replay-value feature especially made with Xbox Live fans in mind. You can customize every single rule, from the gun types to the time you play, etc, etc. Ubisoft claims there are 1,500 different combinations with which to goof. Another neato addition to Advanced Warfighter is the use of drone planes. Gamers can send up video camera drone planes to snoop out the enemy location and movement. With team battles all set up, this new feature proves to be perfect for giving the more ambitious team a little extra punch.

The single-player game should be entertaining all on its own, but once you're through with that, it's all co-op and multiplayer. On the co-op front, up to four players can play in four exclusive missions designed solely for online (or SysLink) co-op. These co-op missions comprise completely new maps, and follow a new storyline takes place in Nicaragua and takes up after the main story in Advanced Warfighter.

We think Ubisoft has a killer thing going on here. The changes made in Ghost Recon 2 ushered in a new kind of excitement for this series, with Summit Strike carrying on the excitement into the summer. Advanced Warfighter is not only superbly pretty and stacked with great new camera angles, gadgets, drone plans, multiplayer levels, but it's also got that sweet four-player co-op game, featuring four entirely exclusive maps. Come November 22 Tom Clancy has a Thanksgiving present for you, and it's called Advanced Warfighter, baby. Gobble it up when the time comes.

This strikes me as being way more upbeat about the game.

So as I said before try not to make hard judgmets on little information.

Developers deserve a fair hearing on the complet product.

Not just one mission.

Colin

[deleyt]

I'm not judging it on the article. In fact I haven't even read it.

I'm judging it on what I see in the screenshots.

Sorry, on-screen tracking devices are simply not my taste, whatever the game's name may be.

[Kurtz]

I think the reaction is based on a perception that the 360 and pc games were going to be similarly designed tactical shooters, and now, it looks like the 360 is more an arcade game like GR 2. That's fine, just as long as the developers, if it isn't too late, keep all that arcade ###### out of the pc game. I just want some of that dry ultratactical shooting action that keeps me playing GR.

[griz]

doesn't anyone think it's silly to make decisions based off the console version? ubi, rse, grim, whiteknight, your mom and my can of RC cola have repeatedly said that the PC version will be a completely different game, catering to the original crowd ... which, ironically enough, is immediately shunning it.

no offense intended, but you guys are coming off like spoiled brats. you can read multiple positive reviews, see screenshots showing features you've asked for, read interviews that confirm this will be the type of game you want ... and then one article that isn't up to your standards turns you off the series forever? if that's how it is, maybe you SHOULD be playing another game.

now i'm going to go dig the cactus needles out of my ankle and arm. i knew i never should've put one in my house.

[Creatch]

I will admit that the artical raised an eyebrow. But then again I have the same reaction when I see how much tax is taken from my paycheque.

I think this is what you would call a reflex reaction to something not quite familiar.

Jumping the gun or whatever you like.

Lets remember that ubi rse have never really givin any real reason over the past 4 years for us to keep playing or for that matter running out to buy a new version.

As a matter of fact we have been a bunch of mushrooms. But we also must realise that this person was playing a "CONSOLE" version.

Those of us who tried the console version of GR were horrified at what we saw, but it in no way reflected our loved platform.

So before everbody jumps off what they think is a sinking ship, remind yourselfs that being over reactive to something that seems a bit off centre does not mean the ship is going down. You may find yourself swimming for a really long time as the ship sails away.