Metal Gear Solid 4 Info

[Zantar45]

You can play either way.

Sneak around or go in guns blazing.

At the TGS, Kojima said that players will be able to customize weapons.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/09/18/news_6133820.html

[Whisper_44]

Having only played MGS1 - this game for me was all about sneaking, the last thing that I wanted to do was be seen or get caught. Very Splinter Cell-ish if that's possible on the PS1.

Got to love the atropine though - to anyone who's played, did this game translate well to the PC? I've thought about it, but never took the plunge.

[snared_gambit]

Alright, I've watched the trailer again, and very carefully.

1 - I wonder who the 'Guns of the Patriots' are. They're either snake or the soldiers he's tracking.

2 - When snake first stops, he kneels down and uses his Codec, "This is snake, can you hear me?" Who's he talking to and why aren't they answering?

3 - The new metal gears intrigue me. They're small, lighter, and more utilitarian it would seem. I wonder if their nuclear capability has been lost?

4 - When Otacon introduces himself, snake is surprised, but I don't think in a way that he though Otacon was dead, but more like he thought that there was no way that he could contact him, or that Otacon was in prison or something.

My own speculation of my own questions:

I believe the guns of the patriots are the soldiers with the metal gears. Snake is trying to talk with either Otacon or some commander of his, and either his line is dead or something has happened. Don't know about the MGs. I really do think that Snake was trying to talk with Otacon, but something happened with their communications line, so snake was surprised when he saw otacon.

[CR6]

Got to love the atropine though - to anyone who's played, did this game translate well to the PC? I've thought about it, but never took the plunge.

←

Don't remember atropine in MGS, perhaps you meant the diazepam (Valium)?

I played halfway through MGS1 on a borrowed PS1, and then waited 2 more years to finish the whole game when I did a review of Microsoft's MGS1 PC port for 3d Retreat (using my good ol' obsolete Voodoo 5 5500 ):

http://www.3dretreat.com/reviews/metalgearsolid/index.shtml

I have the PC version of MGS2 (one of the first games to only come out on DVD) and my main prob with it (besides that it took Konami forever to release the patch with Radeon support) was that control translates poorly from the PS2 controller to the keyboard. Otherwise, the game looks incredible, especially on the latest high-end graphics cards at hi-res and all the eye candy turned on

No word if MGS3 will be coming out for the PC ... hopefully they'll announce it after Subsistence (MGS 3.5) is released.

It would also be really cool if Konami actually ported the GameCube remake of MGS1 ("The Twin Snakes") to the PC - (MGS1 with subsequent-gen graphics)

[Hatchetforce]

Alright, I've watched the trailer again, and very carefully.

1 - I wonder who the 'Guns of the Patriots' are.  They're either snake or the soldiers he's tracking.

2 - When snake first stops, he kneels down and uses his Codec, "This is snake, can you hear me?"  Who's he talking to and why aren't they answering?

3 - The new metal gears intrigue me.  They're small, lighter, and more utilitarian it would seem.  I wonder if their nuclear capability has been lost?

4 - When Otacon introduces himself, snake is surprised, but I don't think in a way that he though Otacon was dead, but more like he thought that there was no way that he could contact him, or that Otacon was in prison or something.

My own speculation of my own questions:

I believe the guns of the patriots are the soldiers with the metal gears.  Snake is trying to talk with either Otacon or some commander of his, and either his line is dead or something has happened.  Don't know about the MGs.  I really do think that Snake was trying to talk with Otacon, but something happened with their communications line, so snake was surprised when he saw otacon.

←

Do you not remember that the Patriots are the La-li-lu-le-lo?

Here is a great explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La-li-lu-le-lo

The Patriots, also known as the La-li-lu-le-lo (or La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo), are a fictional Illuminati-like organization dedicated to creating a new world order, that controls the United States of America in the Metal Gear video game series. The organization's first appearance in the series was Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty (although their existence was implied in Metal Gear Solid by Colonel Campbell) and their origin was further expounded upon in Metal Gear Solid 3: Snake Eater. Largely through the actions of their secret agent, Revolver Ocelot, the manipulative Patriots are ultimately responsible for almost all of the trials, difficulties, and terrorism faced by the main protagonists of the Metal Gear Solid series (Solid Snake, Raiden, and Naked Snake), which arguably makes the Patriots the main antagonists of the series.

The Patriots are presided over by a council of twelve individuals that is known as the "Wisemen's Committee". It is unknown if there is any more depth to their organization than this in terms of hierarchy; however, the Patriots have numerous spies and agents spread throughout the government agencies of the USA. The President of the United States himself is subordinate to them; available information suggests that one must be an agent of the Patriots in order to become President. The fictional Commandant of the Marine Corps, Scott Dolph, knew of their existence, having referred to them as the "La-li-lu-le-lo." A man named "Richard Ames", who was identified as a Secret Service agent, a member of the DIA, and given the rank of "Colonel" at one point, was an agent of the Patriots before his death. Revolver Ocelot is another Patriot spy.

In Metal Gear Solid 3 it is revealed that the Patriots are an off-shoot of a larger international group known as The Philosophers. The Philosophers consisted of the leaders of the United States, the Soviet Union, and the People's Republic of China. After the end of World War I, they formed a secret pact for unknown reasons, thus creating the Philosophers. By the time World War II had broken out, all of the original members were dead, and the organization ran out of control and began to focus on creating useless wars to keep the masses in line. During World War II, they agreed to pool together their respective countries' financial and military resources in order to defeat the Axis Powers. Nuclear weapons, rocket technology, and the Cobra unit were the results of this pact. However, the father of Colonel Volgin, the villain of Metal Gear Solid 3, was in charge of the money laundering activities of the group, and during the war stole the money they had amassed. In 1964, the events of Metal Gear Solid 3 explain how the U.S. branch of the Philosophers retrieves the money from Volgin. Upon finally acquiring all the money from the various banks throughout the world in 1970, the U.S. branch of the Philosophers split from the international group and became the Patriots. While Metal Gear Solid 3 did explain whom the names on the disc that Otacon and Solid Snake had at the end of Metal Gear Solid 2, it still left the identity or identities of the Patriots at the time of Metal Gear Solid 2 as a mystery. However, Metal Gear Solid 3 established that Ocelot was a Patriot spy during that game, and that he was reporting to the Director of Central Intelligence of the United States.

There have also been numerous theories about their origin, since the only piece of information available is at the ending of the game itself when they converse with the main character through his CODEC radio. The Patriots insinuate that they are not quite... human. They appear to have all the characteristics of a disembodied computer AI, but claim to have existed for 200 years as a consciousness developed in the "primordial soup" of the White House. Near the end of Metal Gear Solid 2, they appear as a skull-like visage that briefly flashes on and off in the middle of a codec conversation. One of the strongest theories, backed up by the declaration of the themes for each game by creator Hideo Kojima during the E³ 2004, is that they are beings born out of information and therefore memes. This is reinforced by a conversation the player has at the end of the game:

Colonel: To begin with -- we're not what you'd call -- human. Over the past two hundred

years--A kind of consciousness formed layer by layer in the crucible of the

White House. It's not unlike the way life started in the oceans four billion years ago.

The White House was our primordial soup, a base of evolution--we are formless.

We are the very discipline and morality that Americans invoke

so often. How can anyone hope to eliminate us? As long as this nation exists,

so will we.

Of course, there is no real reason to believe anything the Patriots actually say, since they consistently deceive everyone they deal with, including their own agents, such as Revolver Ocelot. It's entirely possible the story of their origins is simply a myth created to mislead the main characters, and dissuade them from pursuing the idea that the Patriots are flesh and blood men who can be found and killed.

A clue is given in the third installment of the MGS series. At the end of the game Ocelot manages to retrieve most of the Philosopher's Legacy so that "the Philosophers can finally be revived" (quoted from the last telephone conversation Ocelot has with the CIA Director). It's impossible to tell what Ocelot means by revived, but if the Patriots are telling the truth and they are no longer human, this means that someone (most likely the CIA) managed to bring the American Branch of the Wisemen's Committee back to life, or at least their memories or consciousness in a physical manifestation or digital form. This is still pure speculation, but a valid theory nonetheless. A digital form seems most likely, since it is possible that the entities that Raiden communicates with look like Colonel Campbell and Rosemary. Otacon even suggests that Colonel Campbell is manifested from Raiden's expectations. This supports the idea that the Patriots could also be a memetic of some kind or they are indeed born out of information.

The idea that the Patiots are a particularly strong meme fits well with their self-description of not being human; the Patriots may have once been an organization with agents reporting to one another and to their leaders. Over time, this formal organization may have deteriorated (or evolved) into an entity whose only central binding element is the original principals and ideals of the Wiseman's Committee. That is, the true nature Patriots is no longer an organization, but rather, individuals who share the ideals, methods, and practices of the original Patriots; they are human, but not entirely, as there is no structured entity to report to.

Regardless of their true nature, the Patriots have a strong interest in controlling the development of human civilization and evolution, through controlling the information humans accept as fact (in essence, telling them what version of history to believe). Their purpose to create Arsenal Gear is to test the S3 (Selection for Societal Sanity), a system to control and select memes that are supposed to be 'good' for the human race, since natural selection cannot happen in the current information flow where every piece is kept.

Colonel: But in the current, digitized world,

trivial information is accumulating every second, preserved in all its triteness. Never fading, always accessible.

Rose: Rumors about petty issues, misinterpretations, slander...

Colonel: All this junk data preserved in an unfiltered state, growing at an alarming rate.

Rose: It will only slow down social progress, reduce the rate of evolution.

Another interesting theory is that The Patriots, by controlling the human race's development and culture, intend to maintain their own existence, being the act of self-preservation common when considering memes and/or genes. Since the existence of The Patriots is bound to the society´s, it would be of their interest to always spread their values (memes) through the society.

[edit]

Agents of the Patriots

Revolver Ocelot - Known highest-ranked agent of the Patriots and a sleeper agent within various organizations. Ocelot was charged with supervising the S3 plan and recovering the Philosopher's Legacy.

Solidus Snake (George Sears) - Former President of the United States and a surviving offspring from the Les Enfants Terribles project. Figurehead ruler of America. Turns on Patriots in MGS2.

Richard Ames - Ames was killed by his own nanomachines during the Big Shell incident as part of the S3 plan.

Raiden (Jack) - (though he has no knowledge of it)

Rosemary - Assigned to spy on Raiden. Became romantically involved with him and was impregnated with his child.

Jim Houseman

Olga Gurlukovich (Mr.X)

Fatman

[edit]

The Meaning of La-li-lu-le-lo

Throughout the Metal Gear Solid games, a number of individuals have referred to the Patriots as the "La-li-lu-le-lo." One theory for the meaning of this name relates to a codec conversation between Emma Emmerich and Raiden during Metal Gear Solid 2:

Emma: The alphabet... twenty-six letters, right? It could've been

thirty letters. What if the 4 deleted letters were controlled by

a program?

This conversation gives an example of how a secret society - specifically the Patriots - can suppress elements of something as extensive as language itself. This example could very well bear relevance to the game's native language of Japanese: the forty-six characters in the kana syllibaries are known as the gojuu-on, or "fifty sounds." The other four have either been phased out since World War II or simply never existed ("wi" and "we" in the former case, and "yi" and "ye" in the latter).

Romanized Japanese has the same 5 vowels as English - A, E, I, O, U - but traditionally in a different order; A, I, U, E, O. These are pronounced: Ah, Ee, Ooh, Eh, Oh. On the most part, consonants are added to these vowels to construct syllables. For example, add an "R" and you get Ra, Ri, Ru, Re, Ro. The syllables La, Li, Lu, Le and Lo are nonexistent in romanized Japanese (in the Japanese version of the Metal Gear games, the organization's alternate name is spelled Ra-ri-ru-re-ro or らりるれ゠in hiragana).

Although Metal Gear Solid 3 does not specifically link the Philosophers to Japan, it is quite possible that the translator intended the romanization of La-li-lu-le-lo to represent the Patriots, because of the connotations to suppression of information by a secret society. This is also quite consistent with Emma Emmerich's example/theory of suppressed letters in English.

Why the Patriots are known as the La-li-lu-le-lo is not fully explained as of Metal Gear Solid 3. However, it is generally assumed that the La-li-lu-le-lo is the term that Raiden (or, more generally, the player) hears whenever the Patriots are mentioned, in order to protect the Patriots' identity. For example, Richard Ames in MGS2, only ever refers to them by this name, despite Ames being affiliated with the Patriots. In a making of documentary only available in Japan, a 'bonus' or deleted scene was shown. It showed Olga speaking to Raiden of the PATRIOTs. When she said PATRIOTs he heard La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo. This suggests that whenever the Patriots are mentioned to Raiden, his nanomachines change it to La-li-lu-le-lo.

But as early as the events of MGS3, the term is used as an alternative name. Major Zero sets Snake's contact password as "Who are the Patriots?" with the answer being "La-li-lu-le-lo". The significance of this is not fully understood. It may suggest actual Patriot interference in the events of the game. But it is also possible that the phrase was intended as nothing more than a password, which somehow leaked out. Or perhaps, it was just a simple reference to MGS2. Major Zero telling Snake the password was the biggest teaser used at the end of the Metal Gear Solid 3 trailers. (Matthew Porter) Ga. says: the password in MGS3 could of been just a reference but it is possible that since Ocelot was ADAM and he knew the password, that he could've named the American part of the Philosophers the Patriots.

[Whisper_44]

Don't remember atropine in MGS, perhaps you meant the diazepam (Valium)?   

←

Thanks..diazepam - that's what I meant

[CR6]

Thanks..diazepam - that's what I meant

←

No prob, that's what I figured

Funny thing is in real-life, diazepam would put you to sleep for 6-8 hours and not clear out of your system for over a couple days, and is quite addictive.

http://www.mentalhealth.com/drug/p30-v01.html

I always wondered why Kojima chose diazepam for Snake to steady his aim instead of something like Sam Fisher just holding his breath

[snared_gambit]

I know who the patriots are, I just wonder who or what the Guns are.

[Snake@War]

I know who the patriots are, I just wonder who or what the Guns are.

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Their grunts (the Gears?)?

MGS is the only reason I want the PS.

[Hatchetforce]

I know who the patriots are, I just wonder who or what the Guns are.

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Their grunts (the Gears?)?

MGS is the only reason I want the PS.

←

I also want it for the PS3 version of Killzone. I say the PS3 version rather than Killzone 2 because certain hints are around that K2 may actually release this December for the PS2.

[Whisper_44]

I always wondered why Kojima chose diazepam for Snake to steady his aim instead of something like Sam Fisher just holding his breath 

←

The crazy japanese m8.. nuff said - aregato

[snared_gambit]

http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/index.php...hives&date=last

I thought it was funny.

[Snake@War]

[Hatchetforce]

Kojima has revealed more details about MGS4 and it's plot. And Ocelot returns...

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=61121

Hideo Kojima has revealed some more details of the fourth instalment in the Metal Gear Solid series, including news that Revolver Ocelot will be back and ready to take on Snake once again.

Speaking to Hyper PlayStation magazine, Kojima explained that although Snake appears very old in the MGS4 trailer, this doesn't mean the game is set decades after MGS2. It's simply that as Big Boss's clone, Snake ages extra quickly - hence he's all grey and wrinkly long before his time. That's not to say that the other characters haven't aged at all though - Otacon, for example, does have a few more years on him, though he's still looking young and sprightly next to Snake.

One of the game's main themes is "No place to hide," and Kojima explains that there is more than one meaning implied by this. First off, MGS4 sees Snake in the heart of an enemy base during a war where buildings are continually being damaged and obliterated - so very often, he'll find that there is literally no place to hide.

Also, Snake can make alliances with difference countries for protection - so if he wants to infiltrate a particular country, he might kill one of their enemies and thus win their favour. In this instance, there's no need to hide, do you see? Hmm.

Kojima also talked about the psychological warfare element of MGS4, admitting that enemies tended to behave unrealistically in previous games, acting simply as cold-blooded killers who knew no fear. But now you can psyche them out a bit - for example, by making a noise which freaks them and puts them on edge, leaving them unprepared for battle.

It's not yet known just how important this element will be to the game, but Kojima is working on it and has hired Mori Motosada - a military advisor who also worked on the previous MGS games - to help him out.

It sounds very much like Kojima is taking a cue from Sam Fisher....

[Deadpreacher]

I'm not really a fan for this game, but thought maybe some of you might like to read this. MGS4 Possible on Xbox 360

MGS4 Possible on Xbox 360

Konami's Hideo Kojima says hardware is no longer an issue.

by Douglass C. Perry

December 16, 2005 - In a recent Web interview with Hideo Kojima, the master of all things Metal Gear Solid explained that creating Metal Gear Solid 4 is technically possible on Xbox 360.

Kojima said with the exception of nuances or small details, the power of next generation hardware (and the PC) no longer provides the technical restrictions they did before. Kojima also explained in a sideways manner why the Xbox never saw a version of Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater. He explained that he has no grudge or dislike for the Xbox or Xbox 360, but last year he and his team had their hands full with MGS3. Other Konami teams, he said, were able to get their hands on the Xbox 360 tools before him. It's his philosophy that he wants to be first, not second on the early development for a system, which is why he chose PS3.

When IGN contacted Konami America today, the representative said, "there are no new developments or news to share about any Metal Gear products coming to Xbox or 360."

We'll relay any new MGS3 or MGS4 news if and when possible.

Source: 1up.com.

[Hatchetforce]

And this:

http://www.xboxtoday.ca/12192005/12/metal_...or_the_xbox_360

[Deadpreacher]

LOL, now it comes down to what one can do it better if it does make it on the x360!

[rookie]

Hmm, strange haven't found a more "up-to-date" MGS 4-Thread.

Anywho.. E3 2007 Trailer available.

[2nd Ranger]

Gameplay video.

Goddamned if that isn't the most awesome gameplay I have ever seen. It makes me sad to know that I will probably never play this game until the day PS3s cost £50.

[Hatchetforce]

New issue of Famitsu says MGS4 coming 6.12.08

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243133

Scroll down to post 11.

[dporter]

New issue of Famitsu says MGS4 coming 6.12.08

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=243133

Scroll down to post 11.

I think June is a safe bet.

New ps3 bundle which includes MGS4 and DS3 for $499

[Hatchetforce]

Not only that but pre-order of the game gets you into the MGO beta in April.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/26/metal-ge...secures-access/

Not only that but pre-order of the game gets you into the MGO beta in April.

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/26/metal-ge...secures-access/

Also Sony confirms Dualshock 3 date in April:

http://kotaku.com/360931/dualshock-3-dated-for-us

Edited February 26, 2008 by Hatchetforce

[Hatchetforce]

Backward compatibility for new 80GB confirmed:

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2008/02/26/...te-by/#comments

[Hatchetforce]

Ryan Payton, Associate Producer confirms MGS4 will arrive on 12 June, 2008. Thi story is also mirrord by Konami announcements.

http://mp.i-revo.jp/user.php/kp-ryan/entry/164.html

[Hatchetforce]

http://kotaku.com/362109/mgs4-simultaneous...lease-confirmed

MGS4 simultaneous worldwide release confirmed

What, you forgot Konami already said this? Repeatedly? You probably need reminding, then. That June 12 release date for Metal Gear Solid 4's not just for the US. It's for Japan, too. And Europe. And Asia. To quote: "This will be the first time ever for KONAMI to simultaneously release the METAL GEAR series throughout the world". Bravo. Europeans rubbing their eyes with disbelief are welcome to check the press release after the jump.

February 29th, 2008 KONAMI will simultaneously release METAL GEAR SOLID 4 GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS ("MGS4"), a PLAYSTATIONR3® (PS3®) title, in Japan, North America, Europe and Asia on Thursday, June 12, 2008.

This will be the first time ever for KONAMI to simultaneously release the METAL GEAR series throughout the world.

The METAL GEAR series celebrated its 20th anniversary last year. The series has been created to carry an antiwar and antinuclear theme to society, and its total sales have surpassed 22 million units (*1) worldwide.

MGS4 will be the final chapter in the METAL GEAR series, so all the major characters will make an appearance and all the remaining mysteries will be unveiled.

In addition, MGS4 was awarded a prize for excellence in the entertainment category (*2) at the 11th Japan Media Arts Festival hosted by the Agency for Cultural Affairs, The National Art Center, and CG-ARTS Society as a video game pursuing a depth of visual expression that outstrips every previous generation of hardware.

In Japan, KONAMI will launch MGS4 in the following 3 package:

The "Standard Version" including METAL GEAR Online Starter Pack, the "Special Edition" including a Blu-ray Disc of bonus features in addition to the everything included in the Standard Version, and the "Premium Pack" which includes a PLAYSTATION®3 Console in addition to the Special Edition.

Edited February 29, 2008 by Hatchetforce