JFSebastian Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 (edited) Why is there no discussion about an ANTI CHEAT in the WK interview, or did I miss something (other than the thing about server kicks)??. If they have decided to drop replays, then the AC had better be better than the hackers, or this game will be dead in the water as far as online MP is concerned about a week after launch. If we had both then the hackers would be out of the picture for a while for sure. Hackers are solely responsible for the game's demise in online MP, and even then only in the last 2 years or so, or it would still be played almost as much as it ever was. And btw, why can we do replays 6 years ago but not now, and i dont buy the answer they gave about it being too much info. Maybe its because this is a ported Xbox game, and not writen for a PC from the ground up?. If I am wrong then someone please tell me why what was possible 6 years ago is now not?. I would have traded the whole rest of the interview - and your coke thing - for a straight answer to 2 these questions. Sorry Rocky and WK, but that interview did nothing to make me feel the way all u guys seem to be, I am as keen as anyone to play GR3, but what is wrong with a good AC and replays, not to mention being able to jump over a wall etc?. The online MP gaming community, (and modders) were the ones who kept this game alive for 6 years, why has making this thing bulletproof against hackers not been the single most important advance in the development of a new version??> JF Edited September 10, 2005 by JFSebastian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 The online MP gaming community, (and modders) were the ones who kept this game alive for 6 years, why has making this thing bulletproof against hackers not been the single most important advance in the development of a new version??> JF ← It's not the main importance for any dev team. Look Valve, they've got a team on to it, yet still can't keep up with the pace. Details about the anti cheat measures haven't been released yet for GR3, although with the exclusion of replays GRIN may have something up their sleeves. Regards replays, I've no real idea why they can't be added, but I'm sure GRIN have their reasons. They've realised what we want in a game and replays was a massive topic of discussion. I'm sure they haven't included them for the right reasons. Jeez, it's not like GRIN are doing these things to ###### us off and don't forget, there are topics which they can't and rightly so, shouldn't discuss yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSebastian Posted September 10, 2005 Author Share Posted September 10, 2005 Lol cobblers, so what your saying is u dont know anythnig either, and what they do is ok because they must have a good reason for it, glad i dont live in your world where no-one questions anything. I am not suggesting that a game can ever be totally bulletproof, but I was hoping to see something that says they are REALLY trying, and dropping replays is a backward step in this competition between gamers who play straight, and hackers who ruin the games these guys develop and we pay for. JF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 10, 2005 Share Posted September 10, 2005 I can't go into complete detail at this time about why replays can't be used. The reason is the part of my interview I had to remove. It is a rather big thing that no one else has the information about, just know that I hinted at the reason why. When I am allowed to make the fact known, I will be able to tell you more. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 It's not like I'm not questioning it, I just choose not to make it in to such a big issue. And to me GR3 sounds a great game in it's own right, so I'm not going to dwell over things are not to be in the final release. So sit tight, wait till November and we'll see then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 One thing I agree with JF on is I HATE, I mean I really HATE to see next gen releases taking a backward step. It's like when the Battlefield 2 came out and the in-game browser was worse than the Joint Operations one that was out many many months before. Now we get much liked features (such as replays) removed from Ghost Recon. I must admit I find it hard to swallow the reasoning or justification behind this. Instead of seeing a feature removed, we should be seeing it enhanced! Let's move things forward, not backwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokin Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 And btw, why can we do replays 6 years ago but not now, and i dont buy the answer they gave about it being too much info. Maybe its because this is a ported Xbox game, and not writen for a PC from the ground up? Grin has proven that this wont be a port. As far as anti cheating goes, Im sure someting is in the works as every game has, so Im not going to fret, especially since I pick the servers I play on carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 That's it Smokin. I just don't play on any old server. I've got a large range of clans and friends in the GR1 scene that I will be calling upon to ensure I get my quality gaming time. @ Rocky - It's an ###### I know about the replays, but why would they have left them out without a very good reason? One could be that they lag the game like something cronic, well if that is to be the case then it wold make the game unplayable and not worth my time nor effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drazi Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Leaving out replays is a huge mistake imo Anti Cheat is all well and good, but when the script kiddies can knock new cheats out like they're going out of fashion, It's only going to increase the pressure on keeping any AC worth it's salt under a great deal of pressure to keep up. Online play and mods are the thing thats kept the original alive for so long. SO please grin please reconsider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ben Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 (edited) I wrote this about the replays (aka "demos") http://www.ghostrecon.net/forums/index.php...21entry299021 In short: It's better to have big replays then no replays at all And.. How big are they then for a normal sized match or Public game? For GR3 i would love to see: GR1 replays (serversided) - maybe a little bit more quality (not so Robotic-like). Views from every player in that round etc, GR1-like but better. And Client-sided replays that shows you zooming-in, checking commandmap, and showing pixel-precise aiming These "replays" are from Your view only then and will be a couple of mb instead of a couple of hunderd kb. I rather see the game 1 month delayed then no-replays function.. Every serious game has replays... :s Man... If you can't include serverside replays (which is quite rare actually, not many games have this) then atleast allow us to "record" what we see on our screen, so what we do, what we spectate etc.. Maybe even the Briefings in between the rounds (1 long "demo", like for matches) Edited September 11, 2005 by Ben Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeman111111 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 personally im not all that worried that there are not going to be replays because to me grin are proving themselves worthy to create the first PC sequal to the orginal ghost recon so im sure they have some thing up thier sleeves. Now before when grin first started making GRAW they promised us that they loved the game just as much as the rest of the GR community, so if this is true they are going to know just how important it is to keep the cheaters underwraps. Plus if WK says that they have something planned then I believe hm after all i havent seen the game running for myself so i dont have much of a choice. They say that the replays are going to be to large because of the physics to me this is kind of beliveable already with the standard physics that are in games there are hundreds of thousands of calculations going on while the game is being played , and with this game supporting the new PPU i would expect there are going to be even more calculations than normal for people that have this PPU and all if this is going to have the saved isnt it? inorder to give back a accurate replay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 They say that the replays are going to be to large because of the physics to me this is kind of beliveable already with the standard physics that are in games there are hundreds of thousands of calculations going on while the game is being played , and with this game supporting the new PPU i would expect there are going to be even more calculations than normal for people that have this PPU and all if this is going to have the saved isnt it? inorder to give back a accurate replay. ← You may or may not be closer to the truth than you may imagine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeman111111 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 You may or may not be closer to the truth than you may imagine. ← i guess thats what educated guesses are about, dont ya hate knowing something that everyelse doesnt but want to know and you cant tell them lol ow well im looking forward to when you can tell us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Crackin' sig weeman!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weeman111111 Posted September 11, 2005 Share Posted September 11, 2005 Crackin' sig weeman!!! ← thanks, yours too im not much good with flash myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jay316 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 One thing I agree with JF on is I HATE, I mean I really HATE to see next gen releases taking a backward step. It's like when the Battlefield 2 came out and the in-game browser was worse than the Joint Operations one that was out many many months before. Now we get much liked features (such as replays) removed from Ghost Recon. I must admit I find it hard to swallow the reasoning or justification behind this. Instead of seeing a feature removed, we should be seeing it enhanced! Let's move things forward, not backwards. ← I completely agree with rocky on this one, one thing i truely hate is to see features i enjoy in a game removed in the sequal. If the game is obviously popular the way it is, why remove features instead of enhancing them and making them better? IMO game sequals should either enhance or retain aspects of the game that work and are popular, this removing aspects we like or changing the way the game is played completely really doesn't sit well with me but i guess we'll have to wait for the PC demo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteKnight77 Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 They say that the replays are going to be to large because of the physics to me this is kind of beliveable already with the standard physics that are in games there are hundreds of thousands of calculations going on while the game is being played , and with this game supporting the new PPU i would expect there are going to be even more calculations than normal for people that have this PPU and all if this is going to have the saved isnt it? inorder to give back a accurate replay. ← You may or may not be closer to the truth than you may imagine. ← One thing I agree with JF on is I HATE, I mean I really HATE to see next gen releases taking a backward step. It's like when the Battlefield 2 came out and the in-game browser was worse than the Joint Operations one that was out many many months before. Now we get much liked features (such as replays) removed from Ghost Recon. I must admit I find it hard to swallow the reasoning or justification behind this. Instead of seeing a feature removed, we should be seeing it enhanced! Let's move things forward, not backwards. ← I completely agree with rocky on this one, one thing i truely hate is to see features i enjoy in a game removed in the sequal. If the game is obviously popular the way it is, why remove features instead of enhancing them and making them better? IMO game sequals should either enhance or retain aspects of the game that work and are popular, this removing aspects we like or changing the way the game is played completely really doesn't sit well with me but i guess we'll have to wait for the PC demo. ← You may want to reread this part very carefully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightspeed Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 If the enhanced physics are the problem for creating replays, then surely for the purposes of MP we shouldhave the option to un'enable them, thereby reducing the storage/data req'd. Or, ###### the physics off. Replays vs Physics - gimme replays anyday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 (edited) they'll patch GRAW just like they did for GR. I'll wait and see... Added: If I can just play the old school GR, that's enough for me.As for the physics...cool thing but what is good/bad remains yet to be seen. Edited September 18, 2005 by Papa6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethal.Ambition Posted September 18, 2005 Share Posted September 18, 2005 How would GRIN define physics though? I mean, if its necessary for the game to flow right I'd keep the physics. I donno... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desertranger12 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 have yall even been listening to any thing white knight has been saying? if it is needed, hypothetically of course , to keep the game running smoothly, id take smooth game play of this awesome looking sequel over replays any day! plus i never really liked the replays, the actual replay was good, nut there was no ability to pause, rewind fastfoward, change angles of anything like that. maybe in an expansion pack someday well have the ability to get replays. but til then replays in order to have this great looking game running to its full potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papa6 Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 well here's the issue. #1. they haven't defined what, if any anti cheat methods they will use for GRAW. #2. upto now, Replays allow for a person/team to identify a cheater, show results for game matches and to brag. So if we don't have replays...what then? most ladder competitions require the losing team to submit a loss with replays. and replays to identify a cheater to ban them from future competition. But we shall really miss the replays... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFSebastian Posted September 19, 2005 Author Share Posted September 19, 2005 (edited) well here's the issue. #1. they haven't defined what, if any anti cheat methods they will use for GRAW. #2. upto now, Replays allow for a person/team to identify a cheater, show results for game matches and to brag. So if we don't have replays...what then? most ladder competitions require the losing team to submit a loss with replays. and replays to identify a cheater to ban them from future competition. But we shall really miss the replays... ← You see desertranger12, as Papa says, there are 2 differant types of players for this game: 1) Single player peeps who just want to play it as a bit of fun. AND 2) Hard core gamers who play it in leagues with ladders etc for hardcore fun!! lol. If you belong ot the first then good luck to you and your "..great looking game running to its full potential" but to the legion of players who kept this game alive for 6 years by playinig it online in leagues etc the replays were a major tool in fighting against hackers who were able to make cheats that allowed them to see thru walls, make your uniform glow so you could be seen from across the other side of a map, put you name above your head, lock their ret's, and the list goes on forever, unfortunatly. So let me tell you what would make this game run to its full potential for online gamers, that might just last for another 6 years, if they feel it isnt worth a GR4 before then(!!)...... 1) a game that has an anti-cheat 2) a game with replays that alow for checking of players, or a screen shot AC that takes ss's during the match, and post's em out after the match. 3) A game that can be modded the way GR1 was able to be. 4) Regular expansion packs or D/L's with new maps and weapons, and yes, most guys would be happy to pay for them if they were cheap but frequent...(lol dont UBI have ANY marketing planners, u guys have lost a fortune over the last 6 years, for upgrades you could have charged for!) 5) A game that plays the way GR1 did, but improved, not just "changed" loosing some of the things that were GR8 about the original, and then called an improvement. GR1 was a game that if it had been allowed to reach its full potential, by more active support from its owners over the years, it would still be as good or better than anything else of its type on offer today after 6 years (!), it should be a hell of a good base to start from, to develop a new updated game.lets see what happens.......... JF Edited September 19, 2005 by JFSebastian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 I can't go into complete detail at this time about why replays can't be used. The reason is the part of my interview I had to remove. It is a rather big thing that no one else has the information about, just know that I hinted at the reason why. When I am allowed to make the fact known, I will be able to tell you more. Sorry. ← Looking at the Physics etc. The files would be 100s of MB not a few KB just not possible. You have to pay some cost in return for heavy Physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobblers Posted September 19, 2005 Share Posted September 19, 2005 And the size of these files would be a major problem as someone rightly pointed out on the UBI forums. Let's say that a file per person ends up being around 10MB. (For all we know, it could be much more!!) Most matches are 5v5, so you're looking at 100MB's, all which would have to be uploaded by each person to a ladder for the admins to view. Not sure about you, but UK upload speeds aren't all that big and this could take an age. If it replays to end up being even higher than that, we could look at clans needing to upload GB's, not MB's. This just wouldn't be viable and ladders will just end up not supporting this game for online play. My connection is 1mb download and 256k upload (your standard UK ADSL setup) so my connection wouldn't allow me to do much else whilst it is uploading my GRAW replay. And if GRAW does allow for 56'kers, can you imagine how long it would take them to upload?! So as much as I'd want replays, I'd personally prefer a more realistic and entertaining game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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